How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!

[BIGBLCK11]

Yes, that looks correct.  You def. start by lining up the front edge of the bracket to the outer point on that triangle cutout and by the center of the access hole.  I actually put the trans with bellhousing in the car, supported in the front by a heavy strap wrapped across the torsion bars.  I just wanted to be sure it was lined up nicely to get it tacked in place.  It wasn't too bad on a lift with another person.  I would also see how AKcharger lined his up.  Good luck with it!  I love having a 4 speed.   

[AKcharger]

Looks correct Darkside. really if it's centered on that access hole it's going to be fine. at worst it will be off by 1/16 of an inch, you will never notice it.

...I would also see how AKcharger lined his up...

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the bracket when I was installing it, sorry. but we lined it up with the access hole tacked it in place.

[BIGBLCK11]

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the bracket when I was installing it, sorry. but we lined it up with the access hole tacked it in place.

No problem, I didn't either.  I intended to take a lot of pics, but once you get moving and your hands are dirty, it is difficult to keep grabbing the camera.  I didn't actually mean to 'see' how you did it, just to get your input as well, being that this was your thread.  You did a great job with pics and documenting the install for others, it is a great sticky.  I wish I had it when I did mine.   

[cjw916]

Great information & install AK! I wish I had this info 25 years ago when I swapped my 383 Auto for a 440 4-speed! My dad & I just 'winged it'. I did not know that there was a 'correct' hump, so we just got a generic Hurst boot & cut the hole just big enough to get the shifter through! I've had plenty of guys ask me where I got that boot, over the years. I think it was just the local speed shop, Napa?

Brewers has the correct hump, boot & bezel, I'm going to clean mine up and do new carpet, this summer.

[cjw916]

If anyone else is interested, my Z bar was always a PITA, every time I pushed the clutch in, squeeek! So, I saw a few different guys with hydraulic clutch conversions on their classic Mopar 4-speeds @ shows, asked around, did my own investigating; so after cleaning up my stock pedals, I decided to go crazy and gut the entire stock set-up, and went with a Wilwood pedals & master & slave setup. Made my own bracket for the slave to mount to, it bolts to the throttle pedal bolts & one extra bolt I put at the rear of my bracket for strength. It's worked effortlessly since I put it in, bled it, and adjusted the linkage. I'm replacing my clutch right now, after 25 years of burn-outs it finally 'gave up the ghost', which brought me to this thread, bc my wrench friend wanted to put the bellhousing & trans in together, and I kept telling him it'll be easier to put back in the new in the reverse order that we took it out. Seeing your bellhousing & clutch up there by themselves confirms my idea!

[cjw916]

This is the final install pics. I have since cleaned up the wires that are 'suspect' around the master cylinders. :-) And plugged the linkage hole in the floor with a couple plates & a bolt sandwiching the plates together.

Thought about going with the hydraulic throw-out bearing, but I only need the bearing, and the cheapest I've found a hydraulic bearing is around $500, and my linear (it pulls on the throwout fork) clutch slave set-up works too well to pitch it in the trash for a different set-up that I'm not super confident will work, and might need adjusting, when my linear slave is super-easy to get at to adjust for clutch wear.

[cjw916]

Thanks! BTW, I never knew that the notch in the top of the throwout fork was for a return spring! Now I do & will order the spring from Brewers!

[cjw916]

FWIW, if any of you guys need a pedal assembly, booster, MC, used knuckle-buster lever, or used shifter or linkage, I have all of the above in my garage & would gladly offer any/all of it up to a forum member in need, at ridiculously reasonable pricing. . . just PM me, I'd love to help out another's project.

Christopher

[AKcharger]

Hmmmm I didn't know anyone made complete aftermarket pedal assemblies! 

[cjw916]

Brewer's has everything you could possibly want to do a 'correct' conversion. They're a great resourse for individual parts, but can get costly for 'everything' needed, so that's why I went away from stock.

http://www.brewersperformance.com/4speed.asp

My car is not #'s matching & never will be, so I opted to go the aftermarket pedal route bc of the 'tunability' & ease of swapping master cylinders (they're only $60 apiece). I put 6pot calipers on the front and 4pot calipers on the rear. Wilwood originally recommended 7/8" MC for the front & 1" MC for the rear, I tried that and was not that impressed, it felt like I was driving manual brakes. I dropped to 3/4" MC front & 7/8" MC rear, which was a great improvement; I am now running 5/8" MC front and 3/4" MC rear and am ECSTATIC how good the brakes are! I easily get 1,500psi to the fronts (around 60# pedal effort, as I had calculated before making the swap). They're comparable to my SRT8 Jeep Brembos. If you've ever driven an SRT8 anything, you will know how wide the smile is on my face!

Note: I did hafta cut out the 'stock' brake booster firewall mount and welded in my own 18ga plates to mount my pedals. I measured about 15 times before making that first cut, and luckily I nailed it, perfectly. The pedals are at the exact correct height & clear the heater assembly & cowl vent assembly just perfectly. I did hafta cut my cowl vent box, and flip the door 180 degrees, I now push to open my vent, and pull to close it, the opposite of factory, but it's a change I can deal with. :-) It works, that's all I cared about.  

I would do it all over, again, but I have since seen several 'high dollar' builds that have used the same calipers that I used, with a stock booster and a Wilwood combo MC. They obviously got great results going that route, so I cannot deny that it'd work great. I'm happy with my results, but I'm sure they had less worry than I did, cutting the firewall, etc.

I do get a lot of guys that see 3 master cylinders & immediately ask me 'What's going on there?' :-)

Christopher

[ChargerMX]

Hope you guys can help me, i have a 69 charger with console, and doing the trans swap.

what if i am installing a 5 speed transmission like the T5 wich has a top loader shifter,   can i still use the hurst shifter with the pistol grip?, or what mods would i have to make so the shifter is centered with the console?

[AKcharger]

Hi Charger mx! welcome to the site

Well if you go with the 5 speed then all factory options are off the table...BUT you can do some mods to make it work. Problem is you'll have to do some hacking and welding to some expensive shifters to make it work. Maybe a non console B-body might be a good starting point

You might want to ask you transmission source if they have any custom made

[cjw916]

A crazy idiot named Jeff has embarked upon the same Wilwood pedal conversion that I completed. He's doing a TKO600 swap, too. I can't wait to see more pictures!

[cjw916]

AK, I *finally got my interior pulled out, and installed the correct 4spd hump!

My car just had a hole torn in the floor, enough to get the 4spd handle through! I set my hump in place and sprayed paint around the outside to mark where to cut, then I cut 3/4" inside that outline. I tach-welded mine in 4-5 spots and then used sealant all the way around about an inch wide, inside & out, before installing FatMat sound deadener.

New 448 sitting on RMS AlterKtion waiting to install in car.

[cjw916]

Engine sure fills the bay, to the limit!

'70 handle, on '70 short-throw shifter box (Brewer's), with proper molded carpet (Legendary), correct non-console boot & trim ring (Brewer's again), looks fantastic!

It was a day of work (5-6 hours) to pull the carpet and wire brush all the old adhesive & jute off my floor pans. A day of work laying the FatMat. A day of work fitting the carpet perfectly (I used a soldering iron to cut my seatbelt and seat bolt holes, worked great!). And just a few minutes to hang the lever and screw the boot down, after we installed the new engine.

It really turned-out SuperClean looking!

[Lighthorseman]

 

[AKcharger]

Well done Sir!

[303 Mopar]

Do you guys prefer B&B 3 fork or diaphragm?  Also Brewers is quoting a 10.5" 130 tooth wheel with a 10.95" disc for my 440.  Does this seem right?

[Troy]

Do you guys prefer B&B 3 fork or diaphragm?  Also Brewers is quoting a 10.5" 130 tooth wheel with a 10.95" disc for my 440.  Does this seem right?

What bell housing do you have?

Troy

[303 Mopar]

Just finished my conversion.  It sure is a whole lot more fun to drive!   

[cjw916]

Dan,

The 10.9" diaphragm clutch for the 130tooth flywheel w/ organic/ceramic disc, is what I fit on my '68. Did you fit diaphragm or 3 finger Borg & Beck style?

Looks great, btw.

Chris

[303 Mopar]

Dan,

The 10.9" diaphragm clutch for the 130tooth flywheel w/ organic/ceramic disc, is what I fit on my '68. Did you fit diaphragm or 3 finger Borg & Beck style?

Looks great, btw.

Chris

Thanks Chris.  I went with the diaphragm, its plenty stiff for me.

[plumsun3]

I changed the 727 in my '71 track pack 4.10 car with a tremec 5spd. from Keisler
Kit was pretty complete. You can select gearing, with overdrive system I'm getting
3 mpg better. Also hydraulic clutch setup makes for easier install and function.

[Jason95Charger]

Awesome, planning on doing this too along with swapping in a 440

[AKcharger]

Pictures fixed...Rot in Hell Photobucket!