eldelbrock top end kit for 383 UPDATED with DYNO results

[lasvegas69charg]

Has anyone here have experience with the eldebrock top end kit for a stock 383?  It includes heads, cam, intake, lifters and timing chain.  I have done search and found it was a nice kit but it could use a more aggressive cam. This car has power brakes so I do need good vacuum and its going to be a driver. Thanks for any input.

[lasvegas69charg]

I just got off the phone with tech support from edelbrock.  Here is a little bit of tech data on the 2086 kit: The kit made 421 hp and 417 tq at the flywheel on a stock bottom 383.  They did use 1 7/8" headers.  It pulls 10" of vacuum at idle and 12-14" cruising.  If you are using power brakes your on the fence and may have to use manual brakes, electric vacuum pump or hydro. You will need to buy hardened rods and shaft mounted rockers.  They recommend a 750 carb.  It seems to be a nice complete kit.

[mhinders]

I looked at it some time ago, but haven't decided what to build yet. A German friend is using the same (at least similar) for his RB 496 stroker, and he seems happy with it, 12 something on the qtr mile.

I have about 10 in vacuum (mostly somewhat less) in my 383, and that is not really enough for the power brakes.

IMHO a proven kit should be pretty safe to go with.

Martin

[Chryco Psycho]

I would agree that the cam design is the weak link , the heads are ok but I feel u get more for the $$ using stealth or super stealth heads

[Challenger340]

Edelbrock spend alot of money on R & D for these kits.....which are proven performers when applied as per directions.

That Camshaft(238/244 @ .050) I have personally Dyno'd between 1.1 to 1.2 hp per cubic inch, on various cubic inch Engine applications, is most certainly no slouch, and IMO, you will gain nothing vrs another brand, at least not from a cost-benefit analysis.

Even going to a wider C-Line to increase brake vacuum on the same .050 duration events merely de-nuts the bumpsticks peak power performance on the same 105* installed....been there...checked this many times on the Dyno, might as well just opt for shorter .050 event Cam overlap(smaller cam) if you want more vacuum, which will still peak as high as the de-nutted larger bumpstick.

I personally...... prefer using the Edelbrock Heads over the Stealths outa the box....the only caveat being the Valve seat grind applied from Edelbrock is not as good as Stealth....which I find is easly corrected and gains notable Flow immediately from the Eddy's.

Just my opinions...I do this for a living

[lasvegas69charg]

well I pulled the trigger and bought it. I am in the middle of the install. I will post what I get on the engine dyno.

[flyinlow]

I personally...... prefer using the Edelbrock Heads over the Stealths outa the box....the only caveat being the Valve seat grind applied from Edelbrock is not as good as Stealth....which I find is easly corrected and gains notable Flow immediately from the Eddy's.

Could you elaborate?

[Mike DC]

Isn't 417 ft-lbs a bit low for a hot 383?

[lasvegas69charg]

well I just got back from the engine dyno.  I must say the engine sounded really good and strong with a nice lope  at idle. It had  16" of vacuum at idle which is also a plus due to my power disc brakes. I installed the edelbrock  top end kit on a stock 383 that had badger deep dish 9.1 pistons bored .30 over done 24 years ago.  The engine only pulled 300 HP and 330 ft-lbs   with a quick fuel 750, msd ready to run and headman headers. I'm a little disappointed do to edelbrocks numbers of 417 HP and 421 ft-lb that they claimed. With these numbers will the car still be fun to drive?

[JB400]

Define "fun to drive"  Each persons' definition is different.

[cdr]

sounds like a tuning issue,timing ,air fuel ratio ?,

[lasvegas69charg]

he performed a leak down and everything checked out ok. He did a compression test and average 120. Timing is advance to 36 deg.  Af ratio was good. He pulled spark plugs and they checked out ok. He did everything he could. He said that the 9.1 deep dish pistons are really hurting me.

when I mean fun I mean when I step on the gas it will get up and go.

I will post the graph tomorrow.

[JB400]

Rear end gear will make up for that.  300 hp is fine.  That's what most cars on the road have anyway.

[lasvegas69charg]

 the drivetrain is a 727 with a 2500-2800 stall.   I have 3.55 gears with a auburn locker.

[JB400]

You'll have fun.  If it ain't enough, save up for a 400 stroker or a 440

[lasvegas69charg]

I guess my real big hang up is how edelbrock got those numbers and I'm a 100 off. Does it sound right for what I got or is it really low?

[JB400]

Just read your first post.  Did Edelbrock ever list what compression ratio they used on thier pistons?  Your post just says stock bottom end.

[lasvegas69charg]

I will make a call to edelbrock to find out. Good point.

[mhinders]

Your 120 psi during the compression test is on the low side. I have that in my 383 with really low static compression (just above 7:1...) and a cam where the intake closes at 63 ABDC (the Compcams 21-224-4, XE274H). I am sure I had less than 300 hp in my engine.
As said earlier, you probably need more compression.

[Cooter]

Ah yes, The ol' Low compression (READ: Dog Sh*t) rebuilders pistons) pistons that were meant to keep the local idiot from f*ckin' up his rebuild as they were Advertised @ 10.0:1, but come in more like 8.5:1.....


Compression= Balancing game. Too little and your motor is a turd....Too much and your ride needs Aviation Fuel in order to go get a drink at the store down the street. Aluminum heads disipate heat from the chambers as well.

[cdr]

he performed a leak down and everything checked out ok. He did a compression test and average 120. Timing is advance to 36 deg.  Af ratio was good. He pulled spark plugs and they checked out ok. He did everything he could. He said that the 9.1 deep dish pistons are really hurting me.

when I mean fun I mean when I step on the gas it will get up and go.

I will post the graph tomorrow.

it might want 40 or more on timing,having low compression & no quench

[lasvegas69charg]

one thing that I reused was the stock stamped rockers. I was thinking about switching to roller rockers. Which ratio should I go with 1.5 or 1.6?

[cdr]

thats not going to make much difference ! if its still on the dyno try adding some timing

[randy73]

That sounds really low, my stock 70' 383 with headers, mopar perf. electronic distributor,  wieand intake and 750 edelbrock did 279hp and 293tq, but I know it depends on the dyno.

[lasvegas69charg]

i just talk to edelbrock.  they used a 10.0-1 ratio  they also told me that i need to use adjustable rockers.

[JB400]

Well, that explains the 100 ponies difference.  Too bad just adding rockers doesn't bump it up that much.  The only question is, what are you going to do?  You spent the money on this engine, but it seems you were looking for the 400+ mark.  In my opinion, I'd stick this engine in, and use it to break your car in.  It'd let you find and fix all the little things, and still let you enjoy the car with better gas mileage.  Then you can save up and build a little hotter shortblock, then swap over the heads and intake and get you where you want it.  You never know, 300 hp might be enough for you.  Either way, have fun

[Brass]

Well, that explains the 100 ponies difference.  Too bad just adding rockers doesn't bump it up that much.  The only question is, what are you going to do?  You spent the money on this engine, but it seems you were looking for the 400+ mark.  In my opinion, I'd stick this engine in, and use it to break your car in.  It'd let you find and fix all the little things, and still let you enjoy the car with better gas mileage.  Then you can save up and build a little hotter shortblock, then swap over the heads and intake and get you where you want it.  You never know, 300 hp might be enough for you.  Either way, have fun

What better gas mileage?  Low compression engines are down on power AND mileage. 

[JB400]

Well, that explains the 100 ponies difference.  Too bad just adding rockers doesn't bump it up that much.  The only question is, what are you going to do?  You spent the money on this engine, but it seems you were looking for the 400+ mark.  In my opinion, I'd stick this engine in, and use it to break your car in.  It'd let you find and fix all the little things, and still let you enjoy the car with better gas mileage.  Then you can save up and build a little hotter shortblock, then swap over the heads and intake and get you where you want it.  You never know, 300 hp might be enough for you.  Either way, have fun

What better gas mileage?  Low compression engines are down on power AND mileage.  

Sorry about that.  What I meant to say was this engine would have lesser octane requirements.  For me personally, I'd still run premium

[cdr]

Well, that explains the 100 ponies difference.  Too bad just adding rockers doesn't bump it up that much.  The only question is, what are you going to do?  You spent the money on this engine, but it seems you were looking for the 400+ mark.  In my opinion, I'd stick this engine in, and use it to break your car in.  It'd let you find and fix all the little things, and still let you enjoy the car with better gas mileage.  Then you can save up and build a little hotter shortblock, then swap over the heads and intake and get you where you want it.  You never know, 300 hp might be enough for you.  Either way, have fun

What better gas mileage?  Low compression engines are down on power AND mileage.  

Sorry about that.  What I meant to say was this engine would have lesser octane requirements.  For me personally, I'd still run premium

more octane than the engine needs makes less power

[lasvegas69charg]

stroker400wedge...that is exactly what im going to do..after i install the adjustable rockers and dyno it one more time (maybe for that 10 more hp), she is going into the car.  my plan at a later time is to build a short block (stroked 383) and transfer everything over (heads,intake,carb,ign,headers). i kind of wanted to do that anyway and put the number matching block into storage.  i will let you guys know what it makes after the (stock) 1.5 ratio (per edelbrock) adj rockers are on.  

[cdr]

stroker400wedge...that is exactly what im going to do..after i install the adjustable rockers and dyno it one more time (maybe for that 10 more hp), she is going into the car.  my plan at a later time is to build a short block (stroked 383) and transfer everything over (heads,intake,carb,ign,headers). i kind of wanted to do that anyway and put the number matching block into storage.  i will let you guys know what it makes after the (stock) 1.5 ratio (per edelbrock) adj rockers are on.  

you need to bring the timing up

[lasvegas69charg]

the only thing about bring timing up is in the summer time here in vegas when it hits 115 wont that cause detonation?  i told my tuner that i wanted a all-around tune so i really would have to adjust anything between seasons.  the only thing he said i might have to do is jet the carb down a size in the summer time. 
cdr...do you think it will make a difference if i bump it to 40?  i will have my tuner try it when it runs it with the new adj rockers.

[Cooter]

Ifn' it was me, and i was looking for more HP, all I'd need was about a 175 HP Shot of N20 every now and then.

[cdr]

the only thing about bring timing up is in the summer time here in vegas when it hits 115 wont that cause detonation?  i told my tuner that i wanted a all-around tune so i really would have to adjust anything between seasons.  the only thing he said i might have to do is jet the carb down a size in the summer time.  
cdr...do you think it will make a difference if i bump it to 40?  i will have my tuner try it when it runs it with the new adj rockers.

with low compression detonation is not so much a problem,go to 38 & make a couple of pulls & see what it does,if it likes 38,go 40 & see if it likes that
i bet it likes it a lot ,but i have been wrong a time or two    maybe 3 

[Challenger340]

Your power output is off the scale LOW for those kits....something is dramatically wrong ?

The problem with REALLY low static compression ratios, coupled with late Camshaft Intake Valve closing events, and Aluminum Heads too boot.....is that you just do not have enough incipient heat present to get decent Flamefront propagation, think of it as the "speed" to full burn and extracting "Peak" combustion pressures where they outa be on the Stroke.
I suspect that is the problem ?

Was the Camshaft degree'd during installation ? 105* ATDC would help.
Did you get any E.G.T. readings from your Dyno session ?
A/F ratios ?

You are going to have to try and get the burn hotter....throw Timing at it until it starts to wake up a bit ? Don't be scared of 40*/even 42* as long as it'll still crank over, you can always wire an Ignition cut for Cranking, then switch to fire.
Try 2 degree timing increments......start a run at 160* temp, do the backup run at 190* temp see if the 2nd is consistently higher ?
Forget the premium fuel, even try "regular" and see if you can actually get it pinging......at least even that "erratic" burn may heat things up a bit ?

[lasvegas69charg]

It sounds like I really need to bump the timing up. I will give it a try tomorrow in 2* increments. Thanks for all of your input. I did not degree the cam.

[lasvegas69charg]

well we gave her more timing and she didn't like it. It seemed that 36 deg was the sweet spot. After talking with edelbrock there compression ratio was 10 to 1 on adj rockers. After figuring my compression ratio it came to 8.25 to 1. I installed adj rockers from 440 source and gain a little torque. Due  to the low compression and 24 year old rings  I got 340 ft-lbs torque at 4300 rpm and 300 HP at 5500 rpm.  I guess not bad for a short block 24 years old. Now I'm in the process of building a stroker 496 from a 383 short block and switching the top end over.

[cdr]

thanx for letting us know the out come