Tolulene, good idea or not.

[440]

I found a place locally that sells tolulene in 20L drums and wondering if it's economical to use as an added anti knock booster to the crappy fuel today instead of the off the shelf boosters. From what I can find 5% of total volume is only 1 RON, which isn't a whole lot considering some off the shelf boosters claim up to 7 RON.

What are the anti knock properties like of tolulene, or is the RON scale the discerning factor regardless? Is it safe for use in a bakelite carb? Fom what I can also tell it's safe for plastic and rubber except in high concentrations.

This isn't really a performance question but it sort of crosses over and figured this is the best place to ask.

[FLG]

The more important question, why are you detonating to begin with?

[lloyd3]

Toluene may help with detonation, but it isn't exactly safe and healthy stuff to handle.  It's highly regulated in almost all industrial applications, and for good reason.  I don't have a reference handy, but my memory of the problems associated with long-term exposure to toluene included cancer and birth defects.

[440]

Tolulene and xylene contain benzene. Although less hazardous than benzene long term exposure leads to leukemia and other nasties. Tolulene is still prevalent and widely used. I believe race fuel is or was mostly tolulene, 100% tolulene is 124 octane. The scary thing is I remember dipping my hands in chem dip carb cleaner as a kid when cleaning carb parts, which is a mix of tolulene and xylene.


To answer FLG's question it pings on low octane fuel due to being run on both gasoline and LPG. The LPG likes the advanced timing but the gas doesn't. I mainly run it on LPG due to it being cheaper. Octane booster off the shelf cures it but if tolulene is a cheaper alternative.

[68X426]

Toluene is nasty. I don't doubt that in a drum it's cheaper than a bottle of booster, but talk about side effects, wow.

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/toluene.html

Besides all the everyday hazards of use and storage, the EPA may have something to say about your useage, along with your state, county, and local regulators. In this day and age of sniffers and huffers, the law might be around asking a lot of questions. Could be a PITA for you even it's legal. 

[Ghoste]

I've never heard that before about race fuel being mostly tolulene.  In any case, I think this came up once before did it not?  If it was on this forum I seem to remember it being covered pretty extensively but maybe not too.

[Cooter]

"Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.

Toluene has a RON octane rating of 121 and a MON rating of 107, leading to a (R+M)/2 rating of 114. (R+M)/2 is how ordinary fuels are rated in the US. Note that toluene has a sensitivity rating of 121-107=14. This compares favorably with alcohols, which have sensitivities in the 20-30 range. The more sensitive a fuel is the more its performance degrades under load. Toluene's low sensitivity means that it is an excellent fuel for a heavily loaded engine.

Toluene is denser than ordinary gasoline (0.87 g/mL vs. 0.72-0.74) and contains more energy per unit volume. Thus combustion of toluene leads to more energy being liberated and thus more power generated. This is in contrast to oxygenated octane boosters like ethanol or MTBE, which contain less energy per unit volume compared to gasoline. The higher heating value of toluene also means that the exhaust gases contain more kinetic energy, which in turn means that there is more energy to drive turbocharger vanes. In practical terms this is experienced as a faster onset of turbo boost.


A 5 or 10% increase in the aromatic content of gas will most likely be well within the refining specifications of gasoline defined by ASTM D4814, which specifies an aromatic content of between 20% and 45%. What this means is that if the 92 octane gas that you started off with had an aromatic content of say 30% and you increased it by 10% to 40% you would still be left with a mix that meets the industry definition of gasoline.

Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84% toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead to poor cold start and running characteristics. It's recommended that the concentration of toluene used not to exceed 30% or what the engine is capable of utilizing. i.e. Experiment with small increases in concentration until you can no longer detect an improvement.


Aviation gas is less dense than most racing gasoline. Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The racer must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas. Most types of aviation fuel have very high lead content, which would rule out cars equipped with catalytic converters. Most piston-engined aircraft burn leaded fuel. Also aviation fuel has a very different hydrocarbon mix to optimize volatility properties at high altitude. Avgas sometimes has a high level of aromatics, which can contribute to lazy throttle response."

[440]

Sounds like tolulene might just be the go, as long as you only need it in reasonably small quantities to make satisfactory improvements. In that case it might be more economical. I keep hearing about adding a few ounces of ATF or similar oil to keep seals lubricated.

Anyone mix or doctor their own fuel?

[charger Downunder]

What about acetone it has something like  150 octane rating.

[471_Magnum]

Just for reference, Sunoco 110 leaded is 10-25% Toluene by volume per the MSDS:
http://www.racegas.com/files/msds/StandardMSDS.pdf

Yes, it is nasty stuff, but gasoline in general contains some pretty nasty stuff, albeit highly regulated by the EPA.

I keep a five gallon pail of the Sunoco 110 around just for special occasions. At 9 bucks a gallon, I use it sparingly. My 10:1 iron head stroker motor generally gets by on 93 octane, but I'll splash in a gallon of so of the Sunoco for good measure if I know I'm going to be romping on it a lot... which is pretty much whenever I drive it.

[grizparker]

Anyone mix or doctor their own fuel?

There was a post a while back by "aifilaw" discussing some homemade boosters...
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,47597.0.html

[BSB67]

Don't eat it, drink it, sniff it all day, or bath in it, and treat it with the same respect you would any other highly flamable hydrocarbon and you'll be fine.

I have an MSDS for hand soap that states to avoid skin contact and to wear gloves when handling.

[440]

As much as it's detrimental to health I love the smell of 110+ leaded.

  @ hand soap - to avoid skin contact and wear gloves when handling.

[XH29N0G]

MSD are valuable.  One that left an impression on me in school had two lines that I never forgot.

Contact with skin for 0.2 seconds produces burns comparable to those produced by an oxyacetalene torch

and

Ingestion:  Unlikely

Needless to say, it served its purpose and meant that I was very careful.

[Ghoste]

I've heard that before about hand soaps, some have formaldehyde and all kinds of nasty things in them (in trace amounts).

[68blue]

Used it for years in industrial paints, it's what gives huffers the buzz they are looking for. Works pretty well in gasoline, I add it at the 5% level, more to keep gunk in today's gas in solution than as an octane boost.

[lloyd3]

440- I too love the smell of leaded gasoline being burned in a big block engine.  It smells sweet to me, not that sour, acrid, sulphery stench that is produced by unleaded.  I know lead is bad, bad, bad but....on a cold winter night, on a lonely rural road, standing in the exhaust cloud of a running Super Bee just to stay a bit warmer while answering the call of nature (or the call of too-many PBRs), life seemed pretty good.  And I didn't need an MSDS to tell me that.

[Ghoste]

Dating yourself with that statement huh?

[440]

Nothing like pulling up to the lights on a Friday or Saturday night with the windows down and having the sweet aroma waft in the windows.

Life was good. You can still get 110 - 114 leaded but I'd be more worried about the pbr's and the cops then breathing the lead fumes 

[lloyd3]

Both are a far-more immediate threat.  PBRs were a different place and time for me.

[Ghoste]

I think for most of us.

[squeakfinder]

What about acetone it has something like  150 octane rating.

I've used acetone with some positive results. A gallon or two of av gas to a tank helped also. Allthough I don't seem to have a problem with knocking anymore running Chevron Supreme 92.

[lloyd3]

Ghoste - I still remember them very fondly. Probably why I still have my old Dodge.