TRIPLE GOLD OE DAYTONA DISPLAY 2012 Mopar Nationals

[ECS]

At the Nats in 2010 when Dave and I competed there was a sheet posted on the judging table. It had all the results on it and was there around 3pm Saturday if I remember right. On the OE cars of which there was 5 it went from the highest score down to the lowest. Dave had the highest OE gold at the top so he got best of show. Next was our OE gold and then another OE gold. Then there were 2 OE silver awards. There were no point totals ever published. If you go to the Nats web site and pull up 2010 results they reflect the same results as the sheet. The 2011 OE results show only 2 cars certified with both being OE gold and the one with the higher point total is at the top and got best of show. So the only thing for sure at this point is Gene Lewis scored the highest of the OE gold cars as he was awarded
"BEST OF SHOW". So my question is this: was there a judging results sheet posted on the table this year?
MJ

Hi John!  Thanks for the information.  I talked with Mike Mancinni the day after he returned from the Nationals last year and he had already been given his points score and percentage factor.  I have no idea what was meant by the comment that "nobody knows the scores yet.......from what im told they havent even been done for 2 of the cars at last years judging."  If in fact the Summaries and /or scores have not been provided to last years "winner" it is because the judges do not want to commit (in print) the factual characteristics of the vehicle without contradicting the scores that they awarded.  There were MANY judging contradictions from one year to the next. 

One year they deduct for an original VIN decal with a replacement clear overlay and the next year they award full points for a reproduction VIN decal.  (I know because I made it.)  One year they give a point deduction for an assembly line (working) battery and the next year they give full credit for a reproduction battery.  In 2007, a vehicle received a 70 point deduction for evidence that the person who painted it was UNDERNEATH the car.  (Various areas had paint coverage that would NEVER had been exposed to paint at the Factory.)  In 2011, the same paint errors were completely ignored and given full credit with no deductions whatsoever!  There were many other examples but I'm sure you get the picture.  I hope they were at least consistent with these 3 cars and their unique features.  The new OE program should provide consistency and fairness among future participants!

[Tim L]

Sorry if I have missed it but, is there a thread or somewhere online I can view photos of these cars? Would love to have a real good look over them!

Cheers, Tim.

[ECS]

Sorry if I have missed it but, is there a thread or somewhere online I can view photos of these cars? Would love to have a real good look over them!

Cheers, Tim.

Below are threads covering the Red & Yellow Daytona.  Maybe the Owner of the White Daytona will post photos (like the other guys) that illustrate things like correct paint coverage on the underside frame-rails, original NOS Interior Door panels, Original Build sheet that was taped and removed from the Glove box, "before" pictures of the Engine w/original plug wires, Original Floor pans prior to the Restoration, etc.......

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48725.0.html - RED DAYTONA

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,94185.0.html - YELLOW DAYTONA

[Tim L]

Below are threads covering the Red & Yellow Daytona.  Maybe the Owner of the White Daytona will post photos (like the other guys) that illustrate things like correct paint coverage on the underside frame-rails, original NOS Interior Door panels, Original Build sheet that was taped and removed from the Glove box, "before" pictures of the Engine w/original plug wires, Original Floor pans prior to the Restoration, etc....... 2thumbs

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48725.0.html - RED DAYTONA

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,94185.0.html - YELLOW DAYTONA

Thanks ECS, I should have been a a little more specific in that I was hoping for event photos so I could check out Tony's white car..

[nascarxx29]

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/tag/dodge-charger-daytona/

[Mopar John]

The 2012 MOPAR NATIONALS results are now posted on their website!
MJ

[WINGIN IT]

Ok so does this mean  Gene had the most points cause they listed his name first?
It's not alphabetic... 

[ECS]

Ok so does this mean  Gene had the most points cause they listed his name first?

Yep!  But you shouldn't call him "mean Gene".      He is a really nice guy. 

[TheAutoArchaeologist]

All three of these cars will be at the Muscle Car Nationals in Rosemont in November.

[WINGIN IT]

Ok so does this mean  Gene had the most points cause they listed his name first?

Yep!  But you shouldn't call him "mean Gene".      He is a really nice guy. 

How about Gene Gene the Dancing Machine 

[moparstuart]

Ok so does this mean  Gene had the most points cause they listed his name first?

Yep!  But you shouldn't call him "mean Gene".      He is a really nice guy. 

How about Gene Gene the Dancing Machine 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suzwaW_SqtU&feature=related

[WINGIN IT]

Stu - I think it's time you handed over your man card after posting that link...     

I was referring to THIS Gene Gene the Dancing Machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJHKVQ2kLA

[moparstuart]

Stu - I think it's time you handed over your man card after posting that link...    

I was referring to THIS Gene Gene the Dancing Machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJHKVQ2kLA

 havent had a man card for a long time   I automatically read it Dancing Queen   

[hemigeno]

Stu - I think it's time you handed over your man card after posting that link...     

I was referring to THIS Gene Gene the Dancing Machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJHKVQ2kLA

  havent had a man card for a long time   

I'm afraid to click on ANY link from you guys... 

I do wonder though... was GGtDM actually Chuck Barris' supervisor/handler when he was working for the CIA as an assassin?   

[/hijack]

[moparstuart]

Stu - I think it's time you handed over your man card after posting that link...     

I was referring to THIS Gene Gene the Dancing Machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJHKVQ2kLA

  havent had a man card for a long time   

I'm afraid to click on ANY link from you guys... 

I do wonder though... was GGtDM actually Chuck Barris' supervisor/handler when he was working for the CIA as an assassin?   

[/hijack]

Sam Rockwell was great in the movie   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_a_Dangerous_Min

[WINGIN IT]

Stu - I think it's time you handed over your man card after posting that link...    

I was referring to THIS Gene Gene the Dancing Machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJHKVQ2kLA

 havent had a man card for a long time   I automatically read it Dancing Queen   

Key work "AUTOMATICALLY"   

This better for you Stu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJUyqhj4zMM&list=FLhCMSB5sd4Ezd8Ns8pwy0UA&index=4&feature=plpp_video

[ECS]

Congratulations Brother Gene!  THE SECOND HIGHEST OE SCORE IN THE HISTORY OF THE MOPAR NATIONALS!!!  I couldn't be more proud for you with this accomplishment.  Besides an excellent Restoration performed by you and Vance, your goals were attained with honesty and integrity.  You guys did a superb job of presenting the facts as they pertained to the Vehicle and the results are a huge exclamation point on the final chapter of a fascinating journey.  I don't mean to sound too "ballistic" but I wanted to express my sincere appreciation and happiness for the successful outcome of a good Friend.  SUPERB JOB!!

[WINGIN IT]

Have all the points for all 3 cars been published?
Does this mean Gene's car was the top of the 3 ?

[hemigeno]

The individual points totals have not been published anywhere as far as I know, and I'm not 100% sure of the Nat's "ranking" apart from what I've been told by others.  Yes, my car did score the highest of the three, and I'm honored that the judges recognized the 6 years (10, if you count parts scrounging and researching) invested in making the car as correct as we possibly could.  In all honesty, I have not even looked at my certificate or judging summary yet.  My wife received a replacement OE certificate from the 'Nats (John Antonelli had notified them of a type-o on our VIN numbers) in the mail while I was at MCACN, and she read the results to me over the phone.  That's the only reason I have any notion of my score's total.

I'll leave the balance of the discussion about score totals, comparisons, etc. to others - but thanks anyway, Dave.

[ECS]

I'll leave the balance of the discussion about score totals, comparisons, etc. to others - but thanks anyway, Dave.

You're too humble Mean Gene!  You just scored the Second Highest score in the History of the Nats my Friend!!  In the final OE competition (a venue that spanned over 25 years) you finished with the Best Score and a Best of Show!  After all the malarkey that occured last year, you might have been surprised with my reaction upon hearing your Great news.  One year I am accused of being angry about the success of a "friend" yet the very next year, I'm extremely Happy for a (true) Friend who experiences the same results!  I guess I must be going crazy, huh?  I probably need a student of psychology to explain why I reacted so differently toward the same type of scenario.  I just hope all this Fame doesn't go to your head and you accuse me of impeding your efforts with bad products, services, etc........!

We are looking forward to visiting with you and the Daytona next week.     Have a very Happy Thanksgiving Gene!      

[resq302]

Wow, congrats Gene!  Just curious, how did everyone do out at the MCACN in Chicago?

[ECS]

I'll leave the balance of the discussion about score totals, comparisons, etc. to others......

Congratulations on the article in Mopar Collectors Guide Gene.  One of the more humorous parts of the commentary was where Keith Rohm continues to spin the facts with regards to ATF being used in the Power Steering reservoirs by the Service Department at the Dealerships.  EVERY SINGLE piece of Chrysler service literature from that time period adamantly instructs the employees NOT to use ATF because it will damage the rubber components of the Power Steering System.  His explanation about how they used ATF because it was a cheaper alternative than using Power Steering Fluid is comical at best.  I guess we should accept the warped rationale that Chrysler allowed the Dealerships to ignore their Engineering instructions (in order to save a few pennies on Power Steering fluid) so they could pay much higher Warranty work when they had to replace the entire Power Steering System due to such negligence.  Two years after the fact and the "Judges" are STILL upset that their past judging errors were exposed.  When the facts are revealed and you need to save face, Deny....deny....deny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pmBC_CrQS4



 

[FJ5WING]

Did I understnad correctly that OE judging is going away?

[resq302]

Dave,

I remember reading something on Moparts a couple years ago about the whole issue with the power steering fluid.  If it has been proven to them that ATF was NOT supposed to be used due to it causing possible failure of parts, why would they then put it in there.  Was there a hidden objective to Chrysler looking for people to come back in with warranty or after warranty issues?  Planned obsolescence? 

My opinion is that Chrysler would NOT have done that due to all the money they would lose and potential customers they would lose due to "they make a crappy product" customer view.  I still can't believe that the judging system would still take off points for this especially after factory documentation was provided to them.

[ECS]

"The paint should appear just as the dealer would've received it - not too shiny and with slight imperfections.  On the other side of the coin is the window of acceptability.  Could this car have a modification done at the dealership or factory? An example of this would be red power steering fluid. At the time when these cars were built, power steering fluid would've been checked at the new car prep department at the dealership. If the fluid was low, they would've installed the cheaper ATF instead of factory power steering fluid. Things like this are considered when going through a car."


The above commentary (taken from Gene's MCG article) is an example of how the OE program became a venue for promoting incorrect, unsubstantiated, "flip flop" criteria instead of Factory correctness.  In the first sentence, the head judge for OE states that the paint had to appear as the Dealer would have "received it" from the Factory.  If they are so cognoscente of intricate paint details with "slight imperfections" why are they not deducting for Base/Clear Paint jobs?  The Factory NEVER manufactured Chrysler's with Base/clear paint and ANYONE can recognize this type of paint work.  Where is the consistency for judging Factory paint details while turning a blind eye to a paint procedure that is 100% incorrect?

Also in his statement, he basically claims that "red" ATF fluid might have altered the CORRECT clear PS fluid that was used at the Factory.  If that be the case, why did they tell me that I was deducted for not having "red" fluid in my PS reservoir?  This is a contradiction in OE judging consistency.  They are making up (incorrect) guidelines as they go along.  How were the Judges able to document random errors made by the Dealership with respect to Factory correctness?  Where is the accountability for substantiating their judging criteria?    If an OE vehicle exhibited a "unique" feature that varied from normal assembly protocol, the Judges MANDATE that the OE Participant provide PROOF for the "unique"  assembly variation of their vehicle!  If they cannot provide proof, the Participant receives a deduction for the questionable feature.  Where is their DOCUMENTED proof regarding "Red ATF" fluid being used by the Dealerships?  To the contrary, ALL Chrysler maintenance instructions are explicit about using Chrysler approved Power Steering fluid in their systems.  Even the Service manuals used by the Dealership Employees state that using ATF will damage the rubber hoses and/or rubber components in the Power Steering System.  (See attachments below)  It is absurd for a Judge to HYPOTHESIZE that the Dealerships would ignore Chrysler Engineering instructions in order to save a few pennies on PS fluid and risk having to cover more expensive warranty work due to this type of negligence.  Maybe this OE Judge can provide some valid proof that substantiates his claim that Dealerships used "red" ATF fluid on newly delivered vehicles.  If he can't, his OE program deserves a deduction!