TRIPLE GOLD OE DAYTONA DISPLAY 2012 Mopar Nationals

[UFO]

Looks like the bingo cards were in use in '68.

[ECS]

So what would happen with .........

I just read the inside cover of Mopar Action and all I can say is WOW......what a difference a year makes.  Or should it be said that what a difference the "contestant" makes?  A few catch phrases came to mind while reading the Editorial.  The Hunter has become the Hunted!  Turnabout is Fair Play!  Revenge is better served Cold!  Poetic Justice!  But one of my favorites.....Hypocrisy has met its Match!

It should now be obvious that "conspiracy" is not just a "paranoid" concept.  One of the participants who I will not name (that owned the white car), obviously did not appreciate the outcome.  I don't know why?  The year before, he was happy and content with the shenanigans that took place at the 2011 OE event.  As a matter of fact, he started a Moparts thread "congratulating" the same theme that he and his Columnist crony now have a problem with!  They supported Reproduction and NON Original Parts as acceptable OE criteria in 2011!?!  What happened Gentlemen?  Why the change of heart?  Don't be upset with the outcome Guys!  You actually helped to establish the depravity that has come back to bite you in the rear.  One last catch phrase that comes to mind........Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword!  

[resq302]

Ok, at least it was not just me that was confused by the article on the inside cover.

[ECS]

Ok, at least it was not just me that was confused by the article on the inside cover.

I found the Editorial to be a blind synopsis on more than one front.  It was comical to read input about restoration procedures, given by someone who has never been involved with the topic that they summarized.  How can an "expert" who subcontracts all of his Restoration work to others, make the statement: "Restoration is all about Parts.  Anyone can learn and apply technique."  Really?  If that were true, "someone" has been getting ripped off when they supply all those original parts and their results still look manipulated and inaccurate.  Maybe they themselves should attempt the work and then determine what can or can't be done by "anyone."    

Being involved with both ends of the spectrum, I can assure you that simply having Picasso's painting tools doesn't guarantee becoming an Artist.  Quite honestly the most enjoyable & easiest part of a project is the hunt for original parts.  You don't have to build them, engineer or fabricate them.  When you find them you simply buy them!  The hard part for many is having enough money to do so.  An authentic restoration occurs when the Restorer can install those original parts AND assemble them in a manner that looks like it was done by the Factory.  If you can't do that, you only have 50% of the equation covered.  In most instances, 50% is a failing grade!

[69 OUR/TEA]

A big congrats to all three for jobs well done,don't know Tony,so Gene and John,very nice jobs,real nice cars !!!!!What a painstaking process it is to do what you guys did!!!! Both Gene and John,a couple of great,down to earth guys to talk to in person.

[resq302]

So what all has changed in the OE judging?  Are they now allowing undercarriages to be fully painted?  Gloss paint used where satin black paint was?  Or has OE judging gone back to what it should have been, all original parts that are restored and to the way that the factory had them rolled off the assembly line?

[ECS]

So what all has changed in the OE judging?

There is more here than meets the eye!  The restoration techniques mentioned in the Editorial was a diversion to justify the shenanigans that took place over an eight year period.  Mr. "White-Car" spent years using a forum alias to criticize my cars because he felt they incorporated too many reproduction parts for OE competition.  He and his cronies resorted to blatant lies about the Valiant project because there were no significant areas to legitimately criticize.  It became apparent that it was never really about reproduction parts.  It was a personal vendetta.  

In 2011 Mr. White-Car flip flopped and PRAISED his restorer's work which incorporated TEN TIMES the reproduction parts that he had criticized my vehicles for having!  What about the Base/Clear Paint job that the Bloomington Gold Program would also never allow to be judged in their Program?  (Sound Familiar?)  They couldn't admit to the reproduction parts used on their 2011 OE entry because it would tarnish their ignoble award and expose the abated standards of the program.  Their newfound acceptance for OE incorrectness was nothing more than a hypocritical campaign to roll out the red carpet for their 2012 entry.  

The premise for which they were given a trumped up score in 2011 is now being criticized in 2012!  And why?  Because they were blindsided and shocked by the outcome!  When it was beneficial to their agenda, the OE program was without reproach!  Things were wonderful as long as THEY were the ones benefitting from the abated OE standards.  Why wasn't the contradiction in OE judging standards written about and disclosed in 2011?  What was it about the 2012 OE show that caused the Editorial consensus that the "Gold doesn't Glitter" anymore?  Just a delayed coincidence? I don't think so.

[moparstuart]

  what a horrible inside cover article they did no rear research on that POS
another mag I can cancell off my list

[ECS]

what a horrible inside cover article they did no rear research on that POS

The responsibility for magazine candor should be shared by both the Editor and those who provide the vehicle Information.  An Editor relies on the report given by the Person who owns the car and/or the Restoration Facility that did the work.  When BOTH parties consent to the same deception, the information can no longer be viewed as accurate.  It becomes a calculated effort to deceive the target audience.

Below are two commentaries that describe a "rust free" vehicle prior to the Restoration.  If you recall, Mr. Honesty tried to spin this subject matter in another thread by stating that the words "rust free" were ONLY used to describe the body panels.  What a fiasco!  Any person who purchases an automobile of this pedigree looks at every area of the vehicle before taking possession.  The floor pans are usually the first area inspected in order to properly evaluate the condition of the car.  If there was no rust to be found, what caused the holes in the floors?  What destroyed the Fender Tag and how was it repaired to look new again?  How could the restoration shop concur that "body rot" was "virtually non-existent"?  Just an innocent play on words?  According to the magazine articles, the Broadcast Sheet, Fender Tag and Sheet Metal was all original.  Did every publication coincidentally print the same "rust free" story without input from the owner or restorer?

[pettybird]

IT WAS FORD MOTOR COMPANY THAT USED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID (TYPE F) IN THEIR POWER STEERING SYSTEMS!!! He switched the Power Steering fluid requirements between Ford and Chrysler!  

LUBRICANT SPECIFICATIONS/ Power Steering (Pump Reservoir) and Convertible Top Reservoir - Automatic Transmission Fluid - Ford Part No. C1AZ-19582-A - Ford Spec # M2C33-F (Type F)

I'm looking for NOS parts for a '55 T bird restoration we're doing here, and was amused to come across these.  Seems Ford wanted it both ways...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-1970s-Ford-Thunderbird-Mercury-Automatic-Transmission-Fluid-C1AZ19582-A-/190766096519?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2c6a8ba087

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-1970s-Ford-Thunderbird-Mercury-Power-Steering-Fluid-1-Quart-NOS-can-/190766096522?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2c6a8ba08a


The power steering can is a '76 part number specification while the Type F is 15 years older.  They must have changed the ATF to PS fluid standard for some reason.  Those poor guys doing concours restorations on Mustang II's must be going nuts 

[resq302]

Thats too funny!   

[pettybird]

I guess he could have been a GM judge, too...we have a '54 Skylark we're working on and it says to use "type A" automatic transmission fluid on the lid.  Since Dave's post I'm paying more attention to yet another silly item


At the Frankenmuth meet a few years ago we went to the (Visteon?) plant in Saginaw where our power steering pumps were built.  We asked them if it mattered which fluid, and while they urged us to use approved PS fluid, they said that there was VERY little that was different between the two, and that it simply didn't matter.  The hydraulic and anti foaming properties were nearly identical. 

[paul jacobs]

So what all has changed in the OE judging?  Are they now allowing undercarriages to be fully painted?  Gloss paint used where satin black paint was?  Or has OE judging gone back to what it should have been, all original parts that are restored and to the way that the factory had them rolled off the assembly line?

     I was emailed about this thread today, so thought I would read it from the beginning.  Dave, you should be in Congress grilling all the politicians-they wouldn't get anything over on you!

     For those who don't know, all OE judging at the Mopar Nationals will now be headed by myself and a team of qualified and diverse judges.  These are not my friends or cronies-I may not even like some of them, but that is not what is important.  I appreciate those who have paved the way before me, but I have heard a lot of complaints that need to be addressed.
     I have consulted with top restorers, enthusiast and prior Chrysler employers to get a feel of what needs to be done to make this program top notch.  My goal is to bring integrity, transparency and an outstanding reputation to the program.
     I have a lot of ideas and my work is cut out for me, but many have offered their help and I will probably take them up on it! I'm always open for ideas, so if you have any just shoot me an email sometime at moparnut@insightbb.com.
         

[ECS]

I'm always open for ideas........

Hi Paul,
I don't have much time to type this.  I am on my way to Washington to oversee the Fiscal Cliff negotiations.  It shouldn't take too long though.  My advice is simple!  Stop spending more than you take in!

On a separate note, I hope the new OE program will truly represent its acronym....ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT.  Anything that deviates from that descriptive should not be given a blind pass.  Base clear/paint jobs were NEVER a Chrysler OE process in the late sixties or early seventies.  (If a judge cannot recognize this style of paint job, they need to brush up on their braille lessons.)  While there is nothing wrong with that type of paint, it is not Factory correct.  Most restorers default to using a base/clear process with metallic paints.  They resort to using a clear coat so they can sand out imperfections and dirt particles without ruining the metallic paint pattern that lies underneath the clear.  This is just ONE area that has been ignored for the past few years.  The answer to this dilemma is simple.  Offer a true OE class!  For those cars that can't meet the OE criteria, provide a different class.  Refer to it as something other than "OE".  By no means does it have to designate a sub-standard vehicle or restoration, it will simply protect the status and classification that OE is suppose to represent.

[paul jacobs]

Thanks for all your input Dave, I completely agree. While I realize NOS/assembly parts are hard to find, it is not impossible to achieve a true OE status for the most part. In the past five years I have seen many OE restorations come through the judging with really, really nice repo parts, but I don't think they should get a pass-period! You know as well as anyone, it is not fair for those who spend hours upon hours to restore an original part to get the same credit as a new repo part! 
I can tell you without a doubt, there will not be an easy route to a Gold under my watch! I want any OE certificate to mean something special.

[resq302]

Thanks for all your input Dave, I completely agree. While I realize NOS/assembly parts are hard to find, it is not impossible to achieve a true OE status for the most part. In the past five years I have seen many OE restorations come through the judging with really, really nice repo parts, but I don't think they should get a pass-period! You know as well as anyone, it is not fair for those who spend hours upon hours to restore an original part to get the same credit as a new repo part! 
I can tell you without a doubt, there will not be an easy route to a Gold under my watch! I want any OE certificate to mean something special.

Paul,

Excellent to hear.  I really hope you can bring the OE program back to what it used to be!   

[Ghoste]

This is some welcome news.

[706pkvert]

Paul, I look forward to the future OE program. I am sure it will be a lot of work, but you and your team are up to the task. Thank you guys for keeping OE alive.

Mike Mancini

[hemi68charger]

I think someone needs to do a OEM-correct restoration on a '69 Charger 500 now..

And, I'll even give up mine for a donor scholarship. 

[69_500]

I think someone needs to do a OEM-correct restoration on a '69 Charger 500 now..

And, I'll even give up mine for a donor scholarship. 

I would love to see anyone do up a 500 to that level.

[JohnnyBee]

Here is a factory shot with the large Build Sheet on the body (with broadcast sheet), and a smaller (Bingo card) Build Sheet on the K-frame

[ECS]

I can tell you without a doubt, there will not be an easy route to a Gold under my watch! I want any OE certificate to mean something special.

Hey Paul!  It's been about 6 months since the Show and I think those involved have seen things for what it's worth.  If you decide to enter another vehicle in an OE type venue, do not ignore the "new" recipe for success.  Find a dishonest magazine editor to re-write history and then pledge to sponsor the venue that you will be competing in.  You would be amazed at the deceitful things you can make people believe or scoring that can magically change after offering a nice sponsorship payoff.  It won't change reality or speak too highly about the confidence you have in your work but who cares?!  One thing is for sure......the concept of "Charlie" is alive and well for those who will never reach a legitimate level of OE stature. Sorry Charlie!  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Wy_BRFElc

[paul jacobs]

Dave-
I have to say I am amazed at the things that come up in magazine articles-things that are outright lies! I have never read a feature article on someones car, when mysterious subjects come up-subjects, say, that could be the controversial points of other cars?
All I know is it's great to hear such expert opinions from people who have NEVER EVEN BUILT a car, much less restored them to the OE level, but all of a sudden they know so much! It's almost as if someone from the inside is feeding them information they would never know to ask!! But that couldn't be true because we have all been told otherwise right?
NEVER let the truth get in the way of a good, fictional story!
Cheers
Paul

[Mytur Binsdirti]

 Base clear/paint jobs were NEVER a Chrysler OE process in the late sixties or early seventies.  (If a judge cannot recognize this style of paint job, they need to brush up on their braille lessons.)  While there is nothing wrong with that type of paint, it is not Factory correct.  

I've often thought that there is no way to properly restor a Daytona because of them being farmed out for conversion once they left the plant. To be THAT correct, the car should be painted in acrylic enamel & then 3/4 of the car must be masked and resprayed by a 16 year old with even lower quality paint (with no hardener). For extra authenticity, might as well paint it out in the driveway and catch some dust in the paint. I'm not poking fun at you; rather I'm just saying that there isn't a Daytona out there that is restored to that (poor of a) level. To a lesser extent, 500 owners are in the same boat if they want to be "correct".

Todays paint & body work techniques are far better than they were 45 years ago. We all know that these cars were not built to the highest standards and when they left the factory and is shoddy workmanship & lousy paint going to be what it takes to score points with judges?

[paul jacobs]

I think most people, myself included, enjoy a "best case scenario" restoration. Yes these Daytona's were awful. Actually, a lot of other Chrysler's were quite nice, if you have ever seen 2000 mile survivors.
When it comes to resale, I think you may have people questioning the truly authentic, or just plain bad restorations!