why do people think....

[1974dodgecharger]

The old chargers are faster (more torque and HP) than new chargers/challengers? Or are they? I ask this because awhile back I asked about the HP ratings vs modern engines and the most everyone was saying modern engines are way more efficient and powerful than before.

[Indygenerallee]

New SRT8 Chargers would eat the old ones stock for stock and get alot better MPG doing it, That's why I am putting a modded 5.7 Hemi in my 69!!!

[Mytur Binsdirti]

New SRT8 Chargers would eat the old ones stock for stock and get alot better MPG doing it,

...and have a/c, better handling, and come complete with all of the creature comforts.

[Troy]

Because they're living in the past? My dad raced cars "back in the day" which he remembers being pretty fast. Some of the modern cars are downright scary and he questions his memory whenever he rides in one.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter how fast they are - new cars in general lack the "style" the old ones had. I can park my tattered old car next to a new ZR-1 (or Charger or Challenger) and draw more attention. It doesn't matter if it can't get out of its own way (as proven by my 73 Barracuda with the original, tired 318 auto and torn seats and peeling paint).

Besides, if you want to be the fastest car I can't imagine why you'd start with a big, heavy Charger in the first place. It never ceases to amaze me how many people try to bend the laws of physics just to prove they can. If you want to drag race - start with a Dart/Duster. It will be cheaper, faster, and you'll break fewer parts.

Troy

[cdr]

Because they're living in the past? My dad raced cars "back in the day" which he remembers being pretty fast. Some of the modern cars are downright scary and he questions his memory whenever he rides in one.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter how fast they are - new cars in general lack the "style" the old ones had. I can park my tattered old car next to a new ZR-1 (or Charger or Challenger) and draw more attention. It doesn't matter if it can't get out of its own way (as proven by my 73 Barracuda with the original, tired 318 auto and torn seats and peeling paint).

Besides, if you want to be the fastest car I can't imagine why you'd start with a big, heavy Charger in the first place. It never ceases to amaze me how many people try to bend the laws of physics just to prove they can. If you want to drag race - start with a Dart/Duster. It will be cheaper, faster, and you'll break fewer parts.

Troy

THIS IS WHY

[Mike DC]

I basically agree with Troy.



Also , the car that is fastest on the stopwatch is not always the car that feels the fastest to the driver.  

Newer cars are fastest by the clock but they are wrapped in bodies that mute away most of the drama that gives it a sense of speed.  All that sound deadening, insulation, body stiffness, smooth ride, low unsprung weight, etc.  A new car can make 100mph feel safer than 60mph in an old one . . . but are you really buying a fast car so the driving experience feels safe and drama-free?  The earth is traveling a zillion miles an hour through space 24/7 but it doesn't feel like it because our bodies are isolated from all the sensory evidence of it.

Newer engines also produce markedly less torque under the high point of the power curve.  So they feel less powerful than a big-cube older car any time you aren't mashing the throttle wide open.  This is also partly why their MPG is better most of the time.  If you want more power then you have to pay for more gas.  New cars have mastered the trick of only having more power when you mash the throttle and not the rest of the time.  Some guys prefer that, some don't.  

[cdr]

i'll take a rattle trap old hot rod over the newer hot rods any day

[440]

Agreed new cars are quicker but hands down they don't give you the driving experience of an old car.

You don't get the noise, the rawness, the sweet smell of combustion, the seat of your pants feel etc.

[NYCMille]

It's all about perception. For years muscle cars have been looked at as these great unstoppable beasts, however the truth of the matter is, they simply weren't that fast. The beauty however is that one can still pull up next a new car in a say a 318 Dart with a decent exhaust and the other guy will go, "uh oh..." - it's what makes these cars great.

[GT]

Owning both, my 2012 SRT8 beats out my 70 in every category (mileage, power, top end, safety, emissions, comfort, braking, cornering, gadgets, etc. etc.).

Now when the v10 transplant is finished - i expect my 70 to trounce the SRT8 performance wise (but not safety/gadgets/etc.).

All in all - if I had to pick one I'd let the SRT8 go in a heartbeat over my 70...

Newer cars just dont have the Soul of the older metal.  

[Cooter]

See, IMO, the real question here is why do people tend to lend more respect to the older cars. They are considered old skool and WAY cooler than anything on the road today. This is why people will pay $30K for a new car, because it's a NEW CAR...They will pay $30K for an older Charger because it's cooler. NOT because it may or may not be faster/more powerful, etc.


Here in Va., we tend to agree that the older cars are more powerful because of the old addage, If you can make 600 HP with basically a Small Block Chevy "Hemi" from Mercedes, then what kind of power could one make with say a 572 C.I. Hemi from yesterday? Everything being equal, the bigger the engine you BEGIN with, the more power it will make and do it longer.  Try making 700 HP at the wheels, 345 C.I. Hemi, Or even dare I say a 426 C.I. Hemi, and I bet you will need a supercharger of some sort. We have one 572 right here (pic. above), that clearly shows it can be done without a supercharger, and is the same physical size as the original engine.(IE Parts from original will bolt on it). Oh, and just wait until the emissions laws begin to tighten on emissions sniffers up the tailpipe of that blown 6.1 liter making 800 HP at the wheels..You'll begin to see alot less of them on the road. Contrary to popular belief, emissions stations dyno the cars at WOT too, and if your car has a blower and 800 hp, it WILL register on the machine as "Not very green"......

The old school Musclecars were what IS a musclecar IMO. Not some overpriced, Mercedes Benz, with fifteen Side impact air bags, nav. system, etc. The older musclecars are IMO, Basically like comparing the Real Bikers that actually build their bikes in their living rooms out of a 1974 HD, Have a few patches on their leathers, etc. and the "New age" bikers with their brand new HD's, and work in a doctors office....
Sure, they are doing the same thing, riding the same make of bike, but there's a difference...
The older musclecars were WAY overpowered for their braking, handling, etc. You had to DRIVE them..Unlike today where there's Traction control for the low performance driver, and the like.
There's something "Primal" about that feeling of "oh sh*t", I coulda f*cked up there. This thing is dangerous!"....

Bigger engines lighter cars priced to where the average guy could buy one and kill him/herself if they wanted to.
Today, you have to spend at LEAST $60K on a New Shelby if you want all the beans. Yesterday, you could buy a damn racecar right off the showroom floor for pennies over what the average new car would cost you and you could ORDER ANYTHING you wanted. Lemme see the day when Chrysler/fiat/mercedes whatever, allows me to order my new Challenger with a 6.4 Hemi, 6 speed manual, delete everything but what I have to have safety to register it, LIVE REAR AXLE (READ Dana 60), and price it to where the payments aren't $650/month and I'll be the first in line...Until then, I prefer to have my musclecar my way...Fast, Quick, Loud, Obnoxious, and dangerous...

[Troy]

There was an article several months ago (can't remember which magazine) comparing three generations of Camaros (1969, late 90s(?) and new). The 1969 felt fastest because of what Mike said - it's raw and unmuted. The newest version is so tight and quiet that the sensory overload just isn't there. You hear a bit of a whir and feel a steady push into the seat - nothing like slamming a 69 big block through the gears!

My dad says that if he were to buy another car (toy) he'd likely just get a new Mustang (or similar) because he gets the V8 power and sound with modern conveniences like good steering, better brakes, comfy seats, A/C, and a decent radio. He loves the old cars but they take a lot out of him on any trip longer than about 30 minutes.

Troy

[skip68]

It's like I always say .....
I don't care how fast, quick or how much HP a new Car is, you still have to be seen driving it.  It's all about the style.   Mr Angry, you're wrong.  These cars were fast back in the day.   They would peg 150 MPH +  

[1969chargerrtse]

I always saw my Charger as an old barking dog. Intimidating but not as fast as cars out today. My 2002 Trans am runs in the 13's they tell me getting 18 to 27 mpg.
That's why I moved on. Old cars, new cars, they both have a place on the map as exciting in one way or another.  I always said I hope 40 years later we have improved the gasoline engine, and we have.  No more pumping the carb for me though.

[NYCMille]

Agreed - they would move when necessary but they delivered speed differently. Old cars let you feel the speed - they're loud, make noises and dare I say, "scare you" at anything over 120 +. Whereas a new car, hell even something like a Honda Accord will cruise all day long at 120 + with the A/C and stereo on won't even blink an eye. Plus they'll take more abuse and offer more reliability than anything that was built back in the day.

I just sold my SRT8 Magnum and while it was a brilliant vehicle, it was just that... a vehicle. However, when I needed to get someplace fast and in total comfort, it was great.

I always saw my Charger as an old barking dog. Intimidating but not as fast as cars out today.

- BINGO!

[skip68]

One thing to remember is these cars were the last of an era far as high HP.   By 1974, cars were getting choked down with emissions.  No more hemi's or 400+ HP.  For 30 years or so (70's, 80's and early 90's) horsepower was low. Now we have horsepower and good emissions.   

[Indygenerallee]

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 Twin Turbo 1134 HP and being 4wd I am pretty sure that drivetrain wins any race hands down..

[Road Dog]

My old high mileage Charger feels faster than my 2011 Challenger. My Challenger is more forgiving with better road manners.

[cdr]

I always saw my Charger as an old barking dog. Intimidating but not as fast as cars out today. My 2002 Trans am runs in the 13's they tell me getting 18 to 27 mpg.
That's why I moved on. Old cars, new cars, they both have a place on the map as exciting in one way or another.  I always said I hope 40 years later we have improved the gasoline engine, and we have.  No more pumping the carb for me though.

alott of old mopars ran in the 13s,some in the 12s,although 20 mpg & comfort was not there

[kab69440]

THIS IS WHY

Can't say I've seen a stupid SRT do that lately...

[Indygenerallee]

http://youtu.be/tavE9WgZXnc Here is a link to the Jeep SRT8

[Brass]

Stock?  Yes, the new cars are faster.  But you can get a lot of go-fast goodies for the price of a new car.  Check this out:

http://wot.motortrend.com/old-vs-new-pro-touring-1969-chevrolet-camaro-takes-on-2012-camaro-zl1-239295.html

Also, I would rather drive a muscle car at any speed and have a visceral experience than cruise all day long at 120 mph which feels more like 60 in a sensory-deprecated new car. 

[Ghoste]

The ones are quicker and with less effort, less wow factor too.  A lot of the old ones didn't run as fast as we think either, a stock musclecar from the 60's that can run in the 13's is REALLY carrying the mail!  (and no matter what anyone says, a stock musclecar from the 60's that does run 13's is a very rare beast)
But at the end of the day, they still ran it with more cool than the ones today and that is something you can't just bolt on.

[Troy]

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 Twin Turbo 1134 HP and being 4wd I am pretty sure that drivetrain wins any race hands down..

Yeah - for $150k (or so). The new Cherokee SRT-8 starts at over $61k. Put that into an "old" car and see what you can come up with.

And, judging by the video, that thing isn't AWD.

Troy

[myk]

I always saw my Charger as an old barking dog. Intimidating but not as fast as cars out today. My 2002 Trans am runs in the 13's they tell me getting 18 to 27 mpg.
That's why I moved on. Old cars, new cars, they both have a place on the map as exciting in one way or another.  I always said I hope 40 years later we have improved the gasoline engine, and we have.  No more pumping the carb for me though.

God Bless the LS1 F body, man.  As for old muscle?  Their performance is mostly hyped up talk from guys "back in the day."  Let's face it-most of the muscle cars from that era were 14 or even 15 second 1/4 mile cars at best from the factory including Chargers.  Now.....the performance capabilities of the 60's may be gone but their styling will be timeless.  I love some of today's cars, like my '99 Ram-Air Bird, but nothing, NOTHING will ever look as good as the stuff from "back in the day..."