How Bankrupt is Your City/County/Town?

[RallyeMike]

With news of another major CA City declaring Chapter 9, I wonder just how many here live in municipalities that are under water?

My own town of 6,000 is going under..... Being small, the budget issues are not terribly complicated: The State voted in by initiative a maximum 1% property tax increase each year, and cost inflation has run an average of something like 3-4%. After nearly 10 years, that has become a big hole. They have laid off a large part of the staff and made what I consider serious and well-planned cuts, but you just can't lose 2% per year forever. Toss in major property devaluation the last 3-4 years, and, well, that pretty much iced the cake.

The plan is to vote on a mil rate increase just within our town in November. Not passing means un-incorporation, and then who knows what...



 

[Chryco Psycho]

well in an unusual situation the Province of Alberta runs a balanced budget & has a bank account & lends out $$ making money on interest , the province axctualy runs like a business , what a weird idea 

[Patronus]

I don't think there's any place in the country doing as well as Boulder,Colorado. The only depression in Boulder is finding a place to park!

[HANDM]

I'm in moraly bankrupt washington state, does that count?

[Charger_Fan]

I've heard the entire state is going under...sorta like a slow-motion Titanic...one city at a time. Glad I'm on dry land.
Gee, one has to wonder what 60 years of Marxist-Leftist-Political-correctness-bullshit mentality has done to bring the greatest nanny state in the Union to it's knees, and in such (relative) short order. 

[Old Moparz]

I'll copy & paste the joke I posted that got locked. Seems like it was pretty accurate after all.   

----------------------------------------------------------------------

California:

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.           

1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi" and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is natural.

2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.

3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases.
       
4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.

5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous animals.

6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote  awareness" program for residents of the area.

7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.

8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not stopping the attack somehow and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.

9. Additional cost to State of California : $75,000 to hire and train a new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of coyotes.

10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the State.


Arizona:

The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A Coyote jumps out and attacks her dog.
               
1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps  jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.

2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.


....and that, boys and girls, is why California is broke.

[TK73]

I've heard the entire state is going under...sorta like a slow-motion Titanic...one city at a time. Glad I'm on dry land.
Gee, one has to wonder what 60 years of Marxist-Leftist-Political-correctness-bullshit mentality has done to bring the greatest nanny state in the Union to it's knees, and in such (relative) short order.  

You do know if you don't like where you live, MOVE

[Charger_Fan]

You do know if you don't like where you live, MOVE

I live in Utah, no sinking Titanic here. For an example of how California is not, I doubt you would ever see California make a common sense move like THIS.

Great joke Bob, I haven't seen that one for a while.

[skip68]

That joke is funny but truth is in it.  Toooo much government in CA.  With all the fees and fines and permit cost there's no reason for CA to be broke other than wasting money and spending all the budget money so they can keep getting it. Tell me something CA ......  WHY DOES THE GUY CLEANING THE PARKS "LANDSCAPER" NEED TO DRIVE A $40,000 TRUCK? 

[Indygenerallee]

California is done for, you could not pay me enough to live there! I always get a kick out of the gun magazines and all the ads say legal in all states except CA, Should say the USSR!!! Good luck Commiefornia......

[Mytur Binsdirti]

California is done for

[Todd Wilson]

Our city seems to be doing ok as far as $$$ goes. They do stupid stuff though. They say money is tight and they just cant seem to do something  and then they turn around and spend thousands of dollars on putting bike lanes on the sides of all the roads. We spent like 20g on flowers last october to decorate the hiway coming into town. They thought we needed to have this pretty area of the highway coming thru town. Then they spend the $$$ to redo the flowers and about 5 days later we got our first freeze of the winter.

Now our school district I think has seen some tight tight times. But what is interesting to me is they have closed down several skools  and then put add on's at other skools. I understand this and its fine with me but when they do this they really go wild on all this land scaping and stuff which add's a terrible cost in construction. Then the upkeep of all this has to take a lot of $$$. Heck we got big fancy water fountains spraying outside. Lots of landscape rock and stuff. All the skools now have under ground sprinklers on the lawns. These skools have been there for 40-50 years. Grass has always grown so why do we need underground sprinklers?!?!?!


Todd

[learical1]

California is done for

New season and coach for the Sun Devils.  I hope they do better.

[bull]

You can't spend more than you make? That's weird.

[chargerboy69]

You can't spend more than you make? That's weird.

There is a shining city upon a hill that has not got that message.

[John_Kunkel]

....and that, boys and girls, is why California is broke.

Naw....it can be summed up in one word, "entitlements".  The cities/counties/states are broke because they're paying people to do nothing.

[chargerboy69]

....and that, boys and girls, is why California is broke.

Naw....it can be summed up in one word, "entitlements".  The cities/counties/states are broke because they're paying people to do nothing.

Post Of The Day.

And there it is, the perfect answer. 

[Todd Wilson]

....and that, boys and girls, is why California is broke.

Naw....it can be summed up in one word, "entitlements".  The cities/counties/states are broke because they're paying people to do nothing.

Post Of The Day.

And there it is, the perfect answer. 

[RallyeMike]

Thank you Todd Wilson for responding to the topic of this thread.

Naw....it can be summed up in one word, "entitlements".  The cities/counties/states are broke because they're paying people to do nothing.

The budget of my town is small enough to see everything and clearly understand the problem. There are no free rides bankrupting my town because there are no municipal-funded social programs in a town of this size. My town is going broke because of ridiculous blanket Tea Party-like "solutions" like state-wide caps on property tax increases that are lower than inflation. No doubt, yes, because people are fed up and are punishing all government in one fell swoop rather than coming up with workable solutions to the problems.

[mauve66]

one of the cityies here, henderson-las vegas-north las vegas, i forget which, about 8 years ago spent $75K on a study to find out how to save money, i would of showed them for $74999.99 juast to save them some money,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Fred]

Our Shire is doing just fine, they will never go under. They're bankrupting me so that they can stay afloat.
The more money they need, the more our rates go up and more often than not they need money so they can send their staff to holiday spas so that they can de-stress.
If anyone needs de-stressing it's us schmucks they're taking advantage of!!

[68X426]

I am California.  

The local city is hanging in there. So is the county, lots of tough decisions made and generally fiscally sound.

Then comes California state government .... and there it goes.

Whoever said CA is a blue state, no way, it is red.

Peace to all brother comrades.

[bull]

Thank you Todd Wilson for responding to the topic of this thread.

Naw....it can be summed up in one word, "entitlements".  The cities/counties/states are broke because they're paying people to do nothing.

The budget of my town is small enough to see everything and clearly understand the problem. There are no free rides bankrupting my town because there are no municipal-funded social programs in a town of this size. My town is going broke because of ridiculous blanket Tea Party-like "solutions" like state-wide caps on property tax increases that are lower than inflation. No doubt, yes, because people are fed up and are punishing all government in one fell swoop rather than coming up with workable solutions to the problems.

Oh, that evil tea party!

I haven't seen too many wages keeping pace with inflation in this economy either so why should/how can the government feasibly continue dipping into the pockets of the people at the same rate it did when things were good? Should it just keep jacking up the tax rates on people who can't pay in a futile attempt to maintain the level of government we had 10 years ago?

[lloyd3]

It is always dangerous to generalize, but it seems to me that the States with more urban areas and social programs are the ones with the most debt.  The more rural and agricultural States seem to be in far-better shape.  I was going to say all the bigger cities are in trouble, but some of the larger cities in the Dakotas and Wyoming (and large is relative here!) seem to be doing just fine.  Colorado is in trouble because it promised all the State employees wages and pensions based on perpetual 8% growth, which is a fantasy these days.  Budget shortfalls are projected to do nothing but increase unless that particular problem is fixed. 

[Todd Wilson]

I dont know why the tea party has to be thrown into all this.    Citys in Kansas here run off the local tax revenues. They decide on property tax values. Sales tax has a lot to do with everything in a small city or town. A certain % of the cost of gasoline is returned to the city for road upkeep.   If people dont have the $$$ to go spend in the local economy  then the revenue for the city is lower. When gas was cheaper I probabloy burned double what I do now. That was more tax revenue for my city.  Like I said in my earlier message my city is doing fine. They are tight with spending one minute on something and then piss away money on something else. SOme of which is not that important. The highway has been in the same spot for 45+ years and suddenly in the last 5-8 years they decide they need to make that stretch of highway look like you are entering a country club.

Sometimes the problems for citys come up when the state itself doesnt make the income it usually has and then the state struggles to send moneys down to the skools or cities.

I also find it interesting at least in my city if you go inside old buildings theres usually a plaque on the entry wall displaying the contractors that built the building and so on and so forth.  Older buildings always showed local contractors. Not any more. Some are out of country or out of state. Thats not supporting the local economy very well.

We have a state prison here in town and they have an inhouse print shop the convicts can work in .,They used to do inhouse printing for the prison.  Now many non profit organizations go out there now to have stuff printed in the shop instead of going to the local print shops. I know for a fact our city does the same thing with its printing. This cuts the costs of printing down to nothing as they usually only pay for the paper and supplies needed. Labor and so forth is free. I understand the reason as it helps cut costs. But that non profit organization is still knocking on the doors of business's looking for donations yet they dont put anything back into the community. The city has cut its printing costs yet its shooting itself in the foot by not collecting tax revenue that their business could generate by going to a commercial print shop to get their stuff printed.


Its just a vicous circle that needs to be broken but I dont think its gonna happen anytime soon.


Todd

[John_Kunkel]

The budget of my town is small enough to see everything and clearly understand the problem. There are no free rides bankrupting my town because there are no municipal-funded social programs in a town of this size.

What about municipal employees retirement?

[RallyeMike]

I haven't seen too many wages keeping pace with inflation in this economy either so why should/how can the government feasibly continue dipping into the pockets of the people at the same rate it did when things were good? Should it just keep jacking up the tax rates on people who can't pay in a futile attempt to maintain the level of government we had 10 years ago? 

Wages are flat. Overall labor costs are not - they continue to grow due to factors like continued medical insurance premium increases. Take a look at your own employers increase in labor burden cost per employee over the last 10 years and you'll be shocked. Even with flat wages the last couple of years, labor burden costs are still increasing. It's labor negotiators working on your behalf that stuck the taxpayers with most of these increases over the last 10 years.

What about municipal employees retirement?

I know you are smart enough to understand what a social program is, smart ass. Good one!   

[Tilar]

Our little community is doing fine. Ran mostly by republicans and conservatives so we're in good shape.

[RallyeMike]

Our little community is doing fine. Ran mostly by republicans and conservatives so we're in good shape.

Woudl like to avoid a right/left derailment here if at possible, but there is probabaly some truth to that. Generally speaking, conservative mucipalities are going to be more pervasive in rural areas and areas with less financial stresses due to social programs, run away entitlements, wildy swinging property values, etc. The cost of maintaining the infrastructure in a town of a few thousand is going to be significantly less per per SF than a big City due to density.

Lucky you!

[bull]

I haven't seen too many wages keeping pace with inflation in this economy either so why should/how can the government feasibly continue dipping into the pockets of the people at the same rate it did when things were good? Should it just keep jacking up the tax rates on people who can't pay in a futile attempt to maintain the level of government we had 10 years ago?  

Wages are flat. Overall labor costs are not - they continue to grow due to factors like continued medical insurance premium increases. Take a look at your own employers increase in labor burden cost per employee over the last 10 years and you'll be shocked. Even with flat wages the last couple of years, labor burden costs are still increasing. It's labor negotiators working on your behalf that stuck the taxpayers with most of these increases over the last 10 years.

I agree and therefore the government cannot additionally expect to match its revenue to inflation with income, sales and property tax (or any other tax that impacts the individual) if the individual taxpayer's income is stagnant. As far as labor negotiators working on my behalf, they may have been working but they are no longer succeeding. The party recently ended here too.

[Tilar]

Our little community is doing fine. Ran mostly by republicans and conservatives so we're in good shape.

Woudl like to avoid a right/left derailment here if at possible, but there is probabaly some truth to that. Generally speaking, conservative mucipalities are going to be more pervasive in rural areas and areas with less financial stresses due to social programs, run away entitlements, wildy swinging property values, etc. The cost of maintaining the infrastructure in a town of a few thousand is going to be significantly less per per SF than a big City due to density.

Lucky you!

I'll agree with that, but you have to take into account that your tax income is significantly less in a rural town than a big city. It all goes hand in hand.

[RallyeMike]

I agree and therefore the government cannot additionally expect to match its revenue to inflation with income, sales and property tax (or any other tax that impacts the individual) if the individual taxpayer's income is stagnant. As far as labor negotiators working on my behalf, they may have been working but they are no longer succeeding. The party recently ended here too

Business and govt are both employers and both in the same situation. Both must make cuts and increase revenue to continue to maintain service. So why must govt be limited to no revenue increases? Do we really think govt can come up with a solution that is smarter than busines     Hell no.

The heart of the problem is that the Fed has failed to step in and control the runaway health care costs that slowly killing everything. Health care spending in 1980 was something like 9% of GDP, and is now 18+% GDP. That's huge. For 30+ years no administration has had the power or the balls to touch the problem, and until this is resolved, we are in for more of the same. No surprise the party is ending at your location either.

Getting back to the subject, my town (or any local govt) is not in control of some of the problems that are causing financial stress, and public initiative to limit them to budget inflation that is less than the cost of problems outside their control is not solving the problem, only making another one.

Anyhow, rant off. Good luck everyone. See you all in the apocalypse.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Those of us in the DPS (dreaded private sector have been feeling the recession's pinch for years and iIt's about time that those employed by government should share the pain. In this recession, all I've seen is my taxes go up & government spending going up higher; never down.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/18/us-detroit-cuts-idUSBRE86H14520120718

Of course, they're going to cut police & fire services to the bone rather than slash wasteful programs.  

[Mike DC]

The heart of the problem is that the Fed has failed to step in and control the runaway health care costs that slowly killing everything. Health care spending in 1980 was something like 9% of GDP, and is now 18+% GDP. That's huge. For 30+ years no administration has had the power or the balls to touch the problem, and until this is resolved, we are in for more of the same. No surprise the party is ending at your location either.

The US health care system works perfectly fine.  Exactly as designed.  

It is designed to make money off us, not keep us healthy or be affordable.  It has been doing that job extremely well for the last 30 years or so, since the privatization really got in gear.

 

[TK73]

Those of us in the DPS (dreaded private sector have been feeling the recession's pinch for years and iIt's about time that those employed by government should share the pain. In this recession, all I've seen is my taxes go up & government spending going up higher; never down.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/18/us-detroit-cuts-idUSBRE86H14520120718

Of course, they're going to cut police & fire services to the bone rather than slash wasteful programs.  

WA State is required to conduct a "salary survey" every 2 years comparing State employee salaries to those in the private sector with similar job duties.  It is consistently found State employees are paid less for the same work.  Numerous studies across the country have found the same results over decades of review.  On an average it is found our benefit packages help to close the gap. 
The "myth" of the overpaid State worker is simply BS.  Factors that contribute to this myth among the uninformed include Higher education levels and longer employment histories among government (all levels including Fed) employees.

SO, if you'd like to share in my "fatcat, overpaid, lazy gov't" job I'd like to invite you to be 25% underpaid (per a CBA adjusted survey), no COLA in 4 years, a 3% pay cut last year with a 25% increase in my insurance premium.

Personally, I'd HATE to be back in the private sector. Buncha piranha out there lookin to rip the balls off the next guy when the water dries up and prey becomes scarce...

[Mytur Binsdirti]

The "myth" of the overpaid State worker is simply BS.  Factors that contribute to this myth among the uninformed include Higher education levels and longer employment histories among government (all levels including Fed) employees.

SO, if you'd like to share in my "fatcat, overpaid, lazy gov't" job I'd like to invite you to be 25% underpaid (per a CBA adjusted survey), no COLA in 4 years, a 3% pay cut last year with a 25% increase in my insurance premium.

I can't speak for WA state, but I can speak about the Socialist Republic of MA. Here's 3 examples..........

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/02/22/state-workers-taking-millions-in-unused-sick-pay/

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19108113/2012/07/25/ret-state-police-colonel-to-receive-disability-pension

http://papastraighttalk.blogspot.com/2007/08/working-system-and-its-legal.html


And there must be something to it on a national level.......

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/297094/public-employee-unions-gone-wild-patrick-brennan

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/08/08/pension-envy-a-glimpse-into-the-public-union-mindset/

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/books/plunder-how-public-employee-unions-are-raiding-treasuries-controlling-our-lives-and-bankrupting-nati

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/05/public-sector-compensation-in-wisconsin-remains-excessive.php

[mauve66]

i had always heard of the state/fed jobs being so good also.  then my wife got offered a job for NV state, pay started off small $10 hr and i figured, ok-it'll go up after a year or so...................
oh wait, after 6 months they took a pay cut and then they started a furlough system, every month they are REQUIRED to take a day off work without pay, they can't get any overtime, ever.........
oh yeah and the healthcar/pension system REALLY sucks........... we must be in the wrong state also................

[Budnicks]

I'll copy & paste the joke I posted that got locked. Seems like it was pretty accurate after all.   

----------------------------------------------------------------------

California:

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.           

1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi" and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is natural.

2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.

3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases.
       
4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.

5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous animals.

6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote  awareness" program for residents of the area.

7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.

8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not stopping the attack somehow and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.

9. Additional cost to State of California : $75,000 to hire and train a new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of coyotes.

10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the State.


Arizona:

The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A Coyote jumps out and attacks her dog.
               
1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps  jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.

2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.


....and that, boys and girls, is why California is broke.

That pretty much sums it up her in the Progressive Liberal Nanny state of Calif., they are dropping like flies, I now live in the foothills in the central eastern Sierras in/above Sonora Ca., we are in a small crisis, almost every year, not at the levels of the larger cities, that drain the coffers of the rest of the state, mostly because of public sector union sweetheart pesions over the last 2 decades & highway/roadways maintaince cost & repair costs, well at least up here, they Sonora seem to get a budget done at least, for now anyway, cutting services & cutting starting salary or a hiring freeze all together, in the county/city pay rates, to make it happen....

[nh_mopar_fan]

3 years ago, NH was a mess.

The Democrats had managed to get control of the legislature and governors office together for the first time ever since the 50s.

The state budget spending increased 25%. Rather than looking at some realistic revenue numbers and budgeting accordingly, the legislature's method of creating a budget consisted of, 1. Deciding how much we want to spend. 2. Finding the money for it. Oh, and wildly optimistic revenue projections.

End result? A slew of new taxes including an LLC tax on small business and extending the meals and rooms tax to CAMP GROUNDS. Public outrage aused them all to be repealed but the damage was done. The state was in the red bigtime. We threw them out in a landslide 2 years ago. The Republicans were elected to bring some sort of reality back to the budget process and get the state out of the red. They started cutting. That started the shrill cries that they were killing children, cutting education, and all the rest of the usual drivel we get from the spenders.

Two years later, we're now back in the black again. The realistic revenue projections were amazingly accurate and the spending cuts and the limiting of new spending has got us back in good fiscal shape.