Ignition coil

[gsniegow]

I replaced my ignition coil recently with a MSD Blaster 2 coil.  My car has the MP Orange Box electric setup.

Tonight my coil blew up, literally spewing oil everywhere.

I am bypassing ballast resistor.  I was told that with the Blaster 2 I did not need to use the ballast resistor, it was intended to take a constant 12v feed.  Is that incorrect? If so, is there a coil I can use without the resistor?  I was also curious about the 12v feed, when the alternator is running I typically see between 13.5 - 14 volts, is that what fried my coil?  Forgive my ignorance...

Another note, if it makes a difference...  My coil is currently mounted sideways right in front of the carb, does it need to be mounted upright?

My apologies to everyone for all the questions lately!  Your help has been VERY much appreciated!!!

- Gene

[doctor4766]

I don't think you'll have any issues mounting your coil where it is. Mine is in the same place, has been for 4 years with no problems.
And I believe that 13.8v is the typical voltage you would see measured, so it sounds like you're ok there.
Not sure why your coil spat the dummy though sorry.

[FLG]

Was it mounted on the intake horizontally?

If so thats probably your main problem, they dont like being mounted horizontally.


I believe they come with a .8 ohm resistor? Use that, dont use the stock one and dont run 12v to the coil. The only time no resistor should be used is when you have a MSD box for example and it has an output specifically for the coil. With inductive systems (what we run) MSD tells you to use the resistor supplied.

[gsniegow]

Yes, I have it mounted horizontally.

Min e did not come with a resistor and I never looked for one as I was led to believe this setup was OK.  Hopefully I can find one locally today so I can be on the road tonight. 

I'm still confused as to whether I need the resistor or not...  From searching posts, it looks like it's going to be a roll of the dice.  Many folks seem to be running perfect with the same setup I have.  Others, like me, have not had the best of luck with this setup.   

[Ghoste]

Mine didn't come with a resistor.  I am am using it mounted horizontally and no ballast with an AL6 to control it.  I have heard that too that they leak oil if mounted horizontally.  Mine has been that way for a number of years now so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

[gsniegow]

AL6, that's the MSD Ignition, correct?  I'm still using the MP Orange Box, I wonder if that may be the difference?  If you use the MP Orange Box setup, you need to use the resistor, but if you are using the AL6 setup you don't need to? 

[Ghoste]

It is the MSD unit but I did run the Mopar ecu for awhile.  Although as I think about it, when I ran the Mopar control box I did use the ballast resistor on the firewall.

[440]

I'm running a blaster coil and MP orange box. I'm running the stock resistor and don't have any issues.

From my understanding the MP orange box still requires the oem resistor for EI.

[Ghoste]

I thought the resistor was about the oem coil.  Is that not the supposed to be a benefit of the Blaster coils, that they can take the full voltage delivered to them and thereby deliver a higher ouput on the other end?

[440]

Points ignition can't handle the voltage, but I thought the MP box couldn't either, or the Mopar box required it for some other reason. If you had MSD on the other hand or a CD ignition you didn't need the resistor

[Ghoste]

Box is before the resistor isn't it?  It has to be more than the points or the electronic wouldn't need the ballast.

[440]

Hmmm, I've tried researching this and there seems to be a lot of confusion around it. Definitely more than I would have thought.

[gsniegow]

Hmmm, I've tried researching this and there seems to be a lot of confusion around it. Definitely more than I would have thought.

Exactly why I came with the question!  LOL!  Sadly I am reading allot of information which seems to make sense, but then someone comes from behind showing that the setup works for them.  I might just buy a new coil and introduce the ballast resistor back for now.  I guess it's better to be safe then have another one blow up on me.  At least I was in my garage last night when this one started spitting oil everywhere! 

[440]

The resistor won't hurt the coil and should help protect it. The MSD Blaster coil says that most late model electronic ignitions don't require a ballast so in theory you should be fine. The Mopar style ignition comes with a ballast, which should only be to protect the coil although the Blaster should be able to handle it.

I guess the big question is what is the difference between our electronic ignitions and late model? Are they regulated to a 12v feed?

Did you possibly just get a bad coil? Might be worthwhile calling MSD.

[Troy]

I didn't read all the responses so maybe you have your answer but I had the same issue and it took me a while to sort it out.

The coil shouldn't be mounted horizontally. The new(er) coils aren't sealed like the factory ones (to save money apparently) and will leak or explode. They will overheat because the oil inside won't cover all the components when tilted.

The *coil* can live with a constant 12 volts - the orange box cannot. Install a ballast resistor. I use the one MSD recommends. Yes, their instructions suck! However, running it with the factory ballast probably won't hurt anything either.

Troy

[440]

I wonder why the orange box can't live on 12v when most other EI's can. Doesn't that also defeat the purpose of the blaster coil like Ghoste said?

[gsniegow]

In regards to where I have the coil mounted, do you think is I went with the MSD High Vibration Coil would be alright mounted horiontally?  It's "potted" with premium epoxy???

[Nacho-RT74]

the ballast into the MSD ignition sytem doens't hurt or makes anything. They way how its wired the MSD doesn't invols the ballast to the coil, is just to not splice that much everything.

the way how NEWER MSD instruction sheets shows the Ballast still on their system is just to use the original coil wire ( which comes from ballast ) into the "REMOTE" turn on switch, so really won't handle load, is just the trigger to turn on the MSD module. In that way you won't need really to splice that much your existant wiring. On this way the ballast resistor works like the "SPLICE TOGETHER" job made before, to keep the power to Module when cranking and running, and makes easier the installation for "dummies"

[FLG]

In regards to where I have the coil mounted, do you think is I went with the MSD High Vibration Coil would be alright mounted horiontally?  It's "potted" with premium epoxy???

Get in touch with firefighter Ron, he is a fire core dealer, they make great wires and coils.... distributors too

[Troy]

In regards to where I have the coil mounted, do you think is I went with the MSD High Vibration Coil would be alright mounted horiontally?  It's "potted" with premium epoxy???

Yes, that one was designed like the ones from "the old days".

Troy

[Troy]

I wonder why the orange box can't live on 12v when most other EI's can. Doesn't that also defeat the purpose of the blaster coil like Ghoste said?

You use a different ballast with the Blaster coil. It bumps the voltage - but still doesn't allow the full amount. When the car is off the starter circuit bypasses the ballast to send 12 volts (battery voltage) to the coil/ignition. Once the engine is running the alternator is supplying over 14 volts so the ballast is included in the circuit to shield the ignition components. I believe this drops the factory setup to about 10 volts and the Blaster coil to around 12 (using their ballast). The Blaster coil will obviously run at higher voltage because it gets full voltage when used with an MSD ignition box (I believe it's supposed to be fine up to 18 volts).

A factory coil won't last long at 12 or 14 volts. The information I have posted here is what I learned from this site *after* I fried a factory coil and orange box by bypassing the ballast. It got me home but didn't last very long after that.

Troy

[Troy]

the ballast into the MSD ignition sytem doens't hurt or makes anything. They way how its wired the MSD doesn't invols the ballast to the coil, is just to not splice that much everything.

the way how NEWER MSD instruction sheets shows the Ballast still on their system is just to use the original coil wire ( which comes from ballast ) into the "REMOTE" turn on switch, so really won't handle load, is just the trigger to turn on the MSD module. In that way you won't need really to splice that much your existant wiring. On this way the ballast resistor works like the "SPLICE TOGETHER" job made before, to keep the power to Module when cranking and running, and makes easier the installation for "dummies"

Just to be clear, when using the MSD ignition box (ie 6-AL) you don't use any ballast at all. When adding only a coil to the factory ignition you still need it (and the new coil comes with one).

Troy

[Kowal]

the ballast into the MSD ignition sytem doens't hurt or makes anything. They way how its wired the MSD doesn't invols the ballast to the coil, is just to not splice that much everything.

the way how NEWER MSD instruction sheets shows the Ballast still on their system is just to use the original coil wire ( which comes from ballast ) into the "REMOTE" turn on switch, so really won't handle load, is just the trigger to turn on the MSD module. In that way you won't need really to splice that much your existant wiring. On this way the ballast resistor works like the "SPLICE TOGETHER" job made before, to keep the power to Module when cranking and running, and makes easier the installation for "dummies"

Just to be clear, when using the MSD ignition box (ie 6-AL) you don't use any ballast at all. When adding only a coil to the factory ignition you still need it (and the new coil comes with one).

Troy

Yep, but the coil doesn't always come with.   If using something other than a new ignition system, then use the .8 ohm ballast that they make to match the coil, looks like a beefier Mopar stock piece.  Summit has them, Jegs too.

[gsniegow]

Thanks everyone for your help with this. 

I picked up a new coil over the weekend.  Unfortunately nobody locally has the matching ballast resistor so I will need to order one.  My car currently has one that was on there when I got it so I will be putting that back into my setup for the short term.  I'm hoping that this will work until the matching one comes in. 

I've learned a TON from everyone here, I can't thank you all enough!   

[Kowal]

To reinforce.   If you are using a stock coil then the Mopar stock ballast will be fine.  If using a higher output coil, then something like the MSD may be more appropriate.  Depends on coil internal resistance.  There are good write ups in the tech notes on the Pertronix and the MSD websites showing the math.

[gsniegow]

Kowal - Thank you.  I have no clue what ballast resistor is currently installed.  I figured I would rather be safe then sorry so I ordered a couple of the MSD matching resistors.  My car had an Accel coil when I purchased it, but there are no markings on the resistor so I don't know if it's stock, Accel, or what?

I will install the coil and put the current resistor back into play this evening.  I am hoping that the resistor is sufficient enough to work for me between now and whenever the new reistors arrive.  I can measure the volts going into the coil once it's all together, is there a minimum amount needed that I could look for?

[firefighter3931]

You should see 7-9 volts at the coil with the ballist resistor. The Epoxy filled coil works better for horizontal (stock) mounting because there's no oil to leak out.

Personally, i prefer to mount the coil on the inner fender to isolate it from heat & vibration but if you're going for the stock look then that option is out. That being the case ; the epoxy filled coil is your best option along with the matching low resistance ballist 



Ron

[Kowal]

check this link, scroll down to the coil voltage question.

I think these rules apply to the Mopar boxes too.   Can't speak for others.

http://www.pertronix.com/support/tips/default.aspx#a2

[tan top]

The coil shouldn't be mounted horizontally. The new(er) coils aren't sealed like the factory ones (to save money apparently) and will leak or explode. They will overheat because the oil inside won't cover all the components when tilted.



Troy

do you know what i'm embarrised to say  i never knew this   ,
knew it was a good idea to mount them  away from excessive  heat ,    but just stuck  mine in the factory location , just because it factory  ,
going to move it now  

[Kowal]

Best to buy the anti-vibration, epoxy filled, coil.   Pertronix and MSD/Accel both make them.

[440]

My Blaster 2 coil is mounted on the inner fender well and I've wanted to move it to a stock location for some time now. I haven't due to fear of the leaking scenario, plus I'm not sure where the stock location is on a 6 pack    

Might be time to buy a new epoxy filled coil.

[tan top]

yeah  epoxy filled  , think thats the best bet !!  just had a look into  to relocating it ,  don't fancy extending the wires & if i was to do that i would do it propperly  , not  going back into the harness again ( been in there three times in  two  years changing stuff  )))   ! & re routing  it down the passenger side inner fender ,

going to order up  a  anti vibration epoxy filled coil  msd blaster coil & matching  ballast risistor



thanks for the info on this guys  greatly appreciated  

[gsniegow]

thanks for the info on this guys  greatly appreciated  

Agreed - I was nervous to ask the question but I am thrilled that I did!  This is truely a great community to be a member of!!!!

[Ghoste]

Never be nervous about any question around here.

[tan top]

  

going to order up  a  anti vibration epoxy filled coil  msd blaster coil & matching  ballast risistor