Charger restoration another 30 years

[Ghoste]

So get out your crystal ball and tell me where you think the Charger hobby (yes it applies to all musclecars but this is the one we like best) will be in another 30 years.  Do you think they will be way out of the reach of ordinary folk?  Will they get the respect of some of the antique auto types at future concours events?  Do you think the focus will narrow more on what are collectible?

[TUFCAT]

I don't even know if we'll have affordable gasoline in 30 years??!! 

[Ghoste]

Excellent point!  Lets pretend and say its half ased affordable.

[Scaregrabber]

Hard to say: 40 Ford was in demand 30 years ago and still is with high prices for a good one. I think gasoline will be affordable in 30 years as there will be other energy sources for our daily drivers.

Sheldon

[nvrbdn]

i think most transportation will be electric. gas will probably actually be cheap since there will be such a smaller demand. only thing is how many gas stations will close with the electric movement.

[1974dodgecharger]

I don't even know if we'll have affordable gasoline in 30 years??!! 

Personally gas wont be an issue for me.....They said the same thing back in late 1970s, 'gas is gonna skyrocket and we will have hover crafts of some sort using solar engergy to fly' so to me that statement is mute since it was said back in late 70s also.

[hatersaurusrex]

Personally I wonder about today's cars and if anyone will care about preserving them 30 years from now.  Hard to imagine a board like this where people debate whether or not the ODBII chip on a 99 Neon is 'correct' or not.

[1969chargerrtse]

The best way to look at that is to look back at cars that were collectable decades ago, do to style or performance and see if they still are?  The answer would be yes for me.  The 2nd gen chargers are a timeless design and I think will always be in demand.  Like a old Cord or 55 Chevy. 

[Dino]

Once a classic, always a classic.  It'll still make people fall in love with those lines, there's no time limit on those.  Will there be enough around and will they be affordable?  Trends tend to repeat themselves so I foresee them dropping in value and going back up a few times.  Eventually all those people that are 'going to restore it someday' will be no more and the car will go to the next guy who hopefully doesn't have the same mentality.

I don't see a plain car become a classic, no matter how old it is.  I still see the old Volvo's from the 70's and 80' on the road.  Some people may be very fond of those but I wouldn't go as far as calling them classic, a Neon sure as hell isn't!   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Once a classic, always a classic.  It'll still make people fall in love with those lines, there's no time limit on those.  Will there be enough around and will they be affordable?  Trends tend to repeat themselves so I foresee them dropping in value and going back up a few times.  Eventually all those people that are 'going to restore it someday' will be no more and the car will go to the next guy who hopefully doesn't have the same mentality.

I don't see a plain car become a classic, no matter how old it is.  I still see the old Volvo's from the 70's and 80' on the road.  Some people may be very fond of those but I wouldn't go as far as calling them classic, a Neon sure as hell isn't!   

I somewhat agree with the above statement, however, a beat-box 318 Charger that was "done up" with every inferior repopped part sold today will just not be desirable 30 years from now versus a real all original numbers matching hi-po Charger R/T.

As to who will want them; just look at the guys who own Model T's & then see who's buying them and what they sell for today. That's your/our destiny, so have fun while it lasts!  

[Ghoste]

But then look at 1929 Duesenburgs and what they sell for today.  How do you know that isn't our future?

[stripedelete]

As to who will want them; just look at the guys who own Model T's & then see who's buying them and what they sell for today. That's your/our destiny, so have fun while it lasts!  

I agree, EXCEPT when it comes to 2ND Gen Chargers.  The "Dukes of Hazzard" will have an effect on gen 2 trajectory.  As long as 3-5 year olds are being plopped down in front of that show you extend the popularity 40 years.   The clock starts when the show is no longer syndicated.

As far as the "common guy",  I think most muscle cars are already, as we used to say,  "a rich man's hobby".

[Ghoste]

I think its going to go into another level of "rich man" though if it survives.  There is some unbelievable wealth out there in the overall collector car hobby but most of it has yet to take notice of the muscle car era.

[Brock Lee]

In 30 years people will still love these, but they will be looking at an entirely different set of issues than today. Today we look for potential rot that is hidden. i believe in 30 years they will be looking at if the car is restored or not, and if so was it proper. Cars will be still be restored in numbers, but many will be the second or third time. Undoing shoddy amateur restorations. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

But then look at 1929 Duesenburgs and what they sell for today.  How do you know that isn't our future?

How do you know that it is our future?    The Duesenberg comparison is unfair; they only made 470 Model J's compared with about 93,000 1968 Chargers. the Model J was the McLaren F1 of it's day whereas the Charger was just a mass produced disposable car.

I think its going to go into another level of "rich man" though if it survives.  There is some unbelievable wealth out there in the overall collector car hobby but most of it has yet to take notice of the muscle car era.

Quite the contrary; I think the rich collectors have already come and some are gone. Keep in mind that it was the rich "investors" who had a major hand in buying up Hemi cars for ungodly money not too long ago, which dragged up the prices of every other Mopar muscle car. It got to the point where the average hobbyist couldn't afford (and in some cases still can't afford) Hemi cars. Hemi Cuda covertibles were trading in the millions in 2007; what are they going for now? gtell me, is this car (that's been for sale for over 2 years) really worth 155 Large? http://rhcollectibles.com/showroom/1308/vehicle/583773/1968/Dodge-Charger-R/T?sold=0

[Ghoste]

LOL, I know no more about the future than anyone, I was merely challenging your Model T comparison.  Yes the Duesys were exclusive and the T was everywhere.  That does make it a great comparison to our Chargers.  What I attempted to offer there was a different possibility and since neither of us know what tomorrow brings, there is a chance that some of the highly desirable cars of the post war era become tomorrow's concour's specialty vehicles.
As for wealth in the collector car hobby, excepty for the tiny handful that were at the top of the muscelcar price frenzy, I am talking about people with REAL money who are collecting old cars but turn their noses up at muscelcars.  For the most part, the people with that kind of money have shown no interest in musclecars.  I offer the conjecture, "what if they do some day?".

[HANDM]

I like to tell my boy that when he is working on the mopars with his boy, they are going to be close to 100 years old and that if he maintains/ restores them they wil be there for his grandchildren.

I make it a point to regularly tell both children how special the cars are and that they NEED to preserve them for their children and that I am nothing more than a caretaker of the cars and hopefully they will be the caretakers after I am gone.....

We shall see how that goes 

[Scaregrabber]

As I mentioned before, the 40 Ford and 32 Ford for that matter were mass produced in quantity and were not a "special" model, check the pricing on them right now. The Charger R/T and other models like GTX's and such are much more collectible and will hold up better valuewise and collectibility than those truly mass produced Fords have. Specialty stuff like Hemi cars and Wings will widen the gap further from the pedestrian stuff than what it is now.

Sheldon

[billschroeder5842]

My guess is that we will still be overpaying for repo parts, service techs will all be in their 70's and that we will all have done natural gas conversions.

[AKcharger]

I think our cars will still be VERY much in demand due to pop culture. Almost EVERY action adventure movie and many music videos feature 60's 70's muscle cars! Today's kids watching that stuff are tomorrows buyers.

Want proof? Next car show your at watch the 10-17 Y/O's as they go up and down the rows. Watch how much intrest they show in pre-60's cars...they'll pass right buy 'em because there's no connection (personally I think there ugly as well). NOW watch the diffrence when they hit muscle cars; they stop look and talk.

We have three generations that like these cars 1) original owners 2) 80's kids (many of us here) who could buy one in high school cheap and made memories 3) Todays kids who see 'em in shows all the time

[Budnicks]

My opinion is {like ass holes/belly buttons everyone has one}, if it was popular when it was new, it will be popular for ever, too bad almost all of them will have "almost all" reproduction parts by then & will be no more than mirror copies/clones of what they once were, they are only original once, no matter how nicely it's been restored.... Look at the 55-57 Bel Air, 67-69 Camaro, 66-71 Chevelle SS, all Chevy's mass produced every-mans daily driver cars & still worth way too much... Hemi cars & Six-Pack/6bbl cars or Lt. production specialty cars, will retain their prices better than the std. base level other cars, even when the economy goes up & down... There was good reason, why many of the eras cars didn't sell very well, they weren't popular... Remember just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable, a turd is still a turd...LOL... Gen 2's will always be worth more, than the others...

[Ghoste]

I like that popular when new, popular forever notion, thats likely a sharp observation that.

[Budnicks]

I like that popular when new, popular forever notion, thats likely a sharp observation that.

Sometimes I even shock myself...     

[BrianShaughnessy]

In 30 years it won't matter much.   Gasoline cars as we know it will be an oddity. 

Most everybody here will have moved on in one form or another.    I'm sure a few will still have their cars...  probably still waiting for paint.

 

[Ghoste]

That is exactly what I think too Brian.  Gasoline will be a great deal more expensive and unnecessary to many of us.  That is why I keep wondering if they will only survive as automotive artworks like the pre war classics largely are now.

[DixieRestoParts]

If you want the hobby to exist 30 years from now, take a kid to a car show today........

[Budnicks]

Aren't we supposed to be flying around in our space cars like George Jetzen by now, they have been saying that in one generation to the next, I remember this argument back in the early 70's, "gasoline will be obsolete in 20 years", now they have been saying that for probably over 50 years now...LOL... IMHO As long as there is profit to be made in the oil industry, gasoline will still be around....

[Ghoste]

You don't believe in the great green car revolution then?

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Being "green" is just a fad, turbos were in the late 80's & early 90's. the first "green" fad was the big push for solar panels in the late 70's & early 80's. Fads come & go & sometimes flop. unfortunately, government pushed and subsidized fads just end up costing us a lot of money.

This is a little off topic, but I have a couple customers with "green" houses. Between the high installation costs and cost to run the electric pumps to power the geothermal and solar panels, the customers aren't saving anything. In fact, if it werren't for government incentives, iall that green crap would be cost prohibitive., much like hybrid vehicles. Good luck 10 years from now when all that crap starts breaking down.

[Ghoste]

Good point and the geothermal stuff isn't new either, there was a big push on heat pumps and geothermal same time as those solar panels.  This one with the government push and cap and tax and EPA and CAFE and blah blah blah does make me wonder though.

[Budnicks]

You don't believe in the great green car revolution then?

I've been hearing that crap for too many years now, especially her in Calif., freaken Hippie type non-bathers/Eco-Nazis/Environmentalist Activist/Terrorist we have here, they all seem to not last very long or be way too expensive for the average person to own & be cost effective alternative so far... I'm all for it, if they can last or be affordable alternative... They also supposedly cost a fortune to replace the batter cells when they go bad... There isn't enough "old used French fry oil" to go around for everyone, to have the bio-diesel either.... Maybe the natural gas idea, but any alternative fuel needs an available widely spread infrastructure system to distribute it, or it will just fail, just like all the others....

[69_500]

Here is my thought. 30 years from now a 1969 Daytona will probably set you back about 65-80k. Down from what it is now but still not dirt cheap. You have to remember that in 30 more years the generation that was in high school when those car were new will be nearing 90. For a clue compare the prices of cars 30 years older right now compared to where they were 10-15 years ago. The 40's and 30's rods are still in the same price range as they have been in for the last 10-15 years.

[Mike DC]

I wonder if the appeal of the muscle-era stuff will last longer than previous generations of cars though.  In the 20th century cars were evolving so fast that anything 50+ years old was so obsolete that it could hardly be turned into something fast.  But the evolution has settled down somewhat, at least in body & suspension designs.  We can make a '69 Charger pretty darn comparable to modern cars these days in performance.  Eventually I think cars will reach a point where the "old" designs stop looking so much less desirable because the new ones have stopping leaving them so far behind in every way.  I wonder if we are reaching that point now.


Just look at stuff like XV Motorsports.  Bottom line, they made something modern-car decent using a hardly-modified unibody shell, and a V8/5spd/solid axle layout that isn't radically different from stock.  That is 45yo stuff they're starting with.  



And then there's the retro musclecars.  Retro cars have been around for a long time, but these days they're doing it more seriously.  The '05 Mustang or the '08 Challenger didn't just come out looking like the vintage ones just to please some old farts nostalgic for their originals - they came out looking like that to please EVERYONE, because most everyone thought that look was as good as anything else they could have given it.  How much longer those cars will maintain that look remains to be seen, but the bottom line is they wore the retro look and it appealed to everyone including some young people who had no clue what they were even referencing.  


The XV Motorsports stock-based project, the retro new styling & layouts of Mustangs & Challengers . . . I can't picture those kinds of things happening with the '32 Ford design in the 1970s/1980s.  The situation is a bit different this time.  

[1974dodgecharger]

Cars these days of age have no 'soul' they have no history they churned out daily with no love. Once the money has been made after RandD fees, production fees, etc..they are disontinued that can take 5 to 10 years till they get their money back....