Does anyone have any tips on how to loosen header bolts? UPDATE 8/12

[bakerhillpins]

Haven't done this before so I have to ask? Why not just use a stripped bolt extracting socket? Is there no room to fit a socket and ratchet in there?

[Dino]

Haven't done this before so I have to ask? Why not just use a stripped bolt extracting socket? Is there no room to fit a socket and ratchet in there?

Nope, not even close,  The box end of a wrench won't even fit over it.  It's the bolt right behind the first bend on a header.  I'm almost tempted to cut the damn things off and get HP manifolds.

[bakerhillpins]

Haven't done this before so I have to ask? Why not just use a stripped bolt extracting socket? Is there no room to fit a socket and ratchet in there?

Nope, not even close,  The box end of a wrench won't even fit over it.  It's the bolt right behind the first bend on a header.  I'm almost tempted to cut the damn things off and get HP manifolds.

Yea, that was going to be my next suggestion. If it goes for you like things usually work for me, even cutting off the header will have that "unsolvable" problem. Which of course you will not find until you have cut 3/4s of the way through. 

[Dino]

Haven't done this before so I have to ask? Why not just use a stripped bolt extracting socket? Is there no room to fit a socket and ratchet in there?

Nope, not even close,  The box end of a wrench won't even fit over it.  It's the bolt right behind the first bend on a header.  I'm almost tempted to cut the damn things off and get HP manifolds.

Yea, that was going to be my next suggestion. If it goes for you like things usually work for me, even cutting off the header will have that "unsolvable" problem. Which of course you will not find until you have cut 3/4s of the way through. 

Very likely 

Every job I start I go in thinking the worst so I don't get disappointed.  So far that is mostly correct.  I'm getting a bit nervous with this as I'm running out of options and even when I have the bolts out (which will be marked by two week long festivities) then I still need to replace the gasket which will very likely mean lift the engine.   

[bakerhillpins]

Very likely  

Every job I start I go in thinking the worst so I don't get disappointed.  So far that is mostly correct.  I'm getting a bit nervous with this as I'm running out of options and even when I have the bolts out (which will be marked by two week long festivities) then I still need to replace the gasket which will very likely mean lift the engine.  

You do realize that this all started when you wanted to paint the engine bay WITHOUT taking the engine out. Had you just bought into pulling the engine in the first place all of this frozen bolt shenanigans would never have occurred.  

What you are going through right now is exactly why I haven't even started to pull my carb for the rebuild kit that I picked up at Carlisle.

[Dino]

Very likely  

Every job I start I go in thinking the worst so I don't get disappointed.  So far that is mostly correct.  I'm getting a bit nervous with this as I'm running out of options and even when I have the bolts out (which will be marked by two week long festivities) then I still need to replace the gasket which will very likely mean lift the engine.  

You do realize that this all started when you wanted to paint the engine bay WITHOUT taking the engine out. Had you just bought into pulling the engine in the first place all of this frozen bolt shenanigans would never have occurred.  

What you are going through right now is exactly why I haven't even started to pull my carb for the rebuild kit that I picked up at Carlisle.

LOL

Actualy I'm only lifting the engine, not removing it.  And this started as a header leak fix and a brake upgrade but wanted to paint the bay while I had so much stuff removed.  I just hoped to be done with the header and working on the brakes by now so the painting ain't gonna happen anytime soon!

I haven't started my TQ rebuild either, after this header job I may take a break!

[magnumminded]

Hey Remflex gaskets work pretty good in my case. They are think and reusable up to so many times. Just food for thought. Percys I have read good stuff about the reusable gaskets as well.

[Dino]

I finally got the bolts out!

With work and school I didn't have a lot of time to work on the car but yesterday I finally did and with success!  I'll post pics later, the two remaining bolts have round heads on them!  I was able to get them out with a shortened vise grip, a hollow bar for leverage and a torch with mapp gas.  I did accidentally put a small dent on the inside of the first header tube but oh well, not that it'll change anything.  When the last bolt came out I was surprised to see that I could actually move it around quite well in there.  There's no way it would come out without some more work but it didn't have to, I had all the clearance I needed to clean up everything.  Magnum I just read about the remflex and they look real nice but I already had the percy gaskets.  The gasket that came out was totally shot, it's two laters of paper and there's a chunk missing in the center.  I also found out that the rubber valve cover seal was cut in half right above the header leak so I wonder if oil degraded that part of the gasket sooner.  I have more ultra copper so should I just use that to make a valve cover gasket or should I 'glue' the rubber gasket back on with that stuff?

I put the header gasket on, put a good amount of ultra copper on the new bolts with 3/8 head and tightened them snugly.  Now it sat overnight I can snug them up some more and refill the cooling system.

When I was draining coolant I noticed it was real clean so I'm not too worried about what's left in there.  That said I did buy the prestone flush bottle.  I have my heater disconnected so I'll just have the engine run with that stuff in it for a while and drain it.  When it's time to fill the system, how much do I use?  I have a gallon of prestone coolant, not the 50/50 stuff.  And I bought a bottle of water wetter as well.  How much of each do I use and how much water?

[firefighter3931]

Good work Dino 

I'd replace the valvecover gaskets with some Felpro rubber. Just use the Ultra copper to glue the gasket to the valvecover and let it set up overnight. No sealer on the head. The excessive heat from the blown header gasket burnt up the valvecover gasket above it.    That won't be a problem anymore, now that you've installed the Percy's   

I like a 50/50 mix of antifreeze 


Ron

[Dino]

All done!  Since I'm getting mopar performance valvecovers soon I used some heat to weld the cut rubber gasket back together and used a thin coat of ultra copper.  Seems to hold up just fine.

The header leak is gone, I also found leaks on both collectors which are fixed as well and I can't believe how quiet the car got!  It's still loud enough if you're standing behind it but no more going deaf in the cabin.  Woohoo!

I replaced the spark plugs with NGK xr5's.  When I had the car running in the driveway I just needed it to warm up so I could drain the radiator flush stuff but it didn't make it that far, it started to stumble and died and I couldn't get it to run again.  I was sure I had plenty gas in the tank so I checked just about everything else before I decided to pour a gas can in it!  That did the trick!  

I retorqued the bolts after the first short trip and I took the car to work today so I'll retorque again tonight to be safe.  It's good to have her back, I was getting way too itchy!

Thanks for the help guys!  

[Dino]

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[Dino]

last ones

[bakerhillpins]

Good to hear Dino!  I bet you are relieved to finally have that completed. 

So did the PO put a good gasket on top of a bad one? That exhaust gasket looks like it's half as thick in that one pic?

[Dino]

I was really relieved when that final bolt came loose.  And all was well again when I went to fill her up last night.

The old gasket is so far gone it's hard to say if it's two layers or a delaminated single gasket.  It does look like two gaskets where one is missing a bit in the middle.  It's also very crusty so it had zero sealing capabilities.  The percy gasket started squishing between header and head before the bolts were tight so I knew it would work great and it did.

I doubt the po did the work though as the car came with a full engine rebuild receipt.  I think the mechanic put the gaskets on.  The passenger side has a paper gasket as well but that one is sealed up just fine.  I have a spare percy gasket and header bolts but as long as the old ain't broke, I ain't fixing it!   

[firefighter3931]

The double gaskets are often used to compensate for a warped flange but those paper/cardboard gaskets are junk and eventually fail. 

The Percy's are nice and thick with multiple layers and the soft aluminum conforms to the header flange which makes for a fool proof seal. With old headers these are the best (only) choice. 

If the flange is badly warped you can cut the flange between the front/2nd pipe & 3rd/back pipe to allow for a more even compression on the gasket. 

Most of the newer high end headers come with 3/8in thick flanges to prevent warpage but the older less expensive stuff can be made to work with a little TLC. 


Ron

[Dino]

The double gaskets are often used to compensate for a warped flange but those paper/cardboard gaskets are junk and eventually fail. 

The Percy's are nice and thick with multiple layers and the soft aluminum conforms to the header flange which makes for a fool proof seal. With old headers these are the best (only) choice. 

If the flange is badly warped you can cut the flange between the front/2nd pipe & 3rd/back pipe to allow for a more even compression on the gasket. 

Most of the newer high end headers come with 3/8in thick flanges to prevent warpage but the older less expensive stuff can be made to work with a little TLC. 


Ron

Never thought about cutting the flange, probably because it's fairly straight but it's good to have options.   

The percy gasket worked great!  I retorqued the bolts and checked them a second time and the header is sealed tight.  Awesome stuff!

It's amazing what a difference this work made, the car actually sounds as it should.  unfortunately without that leaky header I can now hear the whining rear end all the way up to 55 mph.   

When I get back from Europe I'll try to redo the axle preload and hope for the best, if that fails I'll need bigger speakers in the car!