Tax Per Mile May Be Coming

[Ghoste]

Beyond the basic necessities of life every single thing in our society is a luxury and by definition not required.  All of these things are choices we could make and I for one am not prepared to return to life of living in a shelter I made with my bare hands from sticks and animal hides and a subsistence based on hunter gatherer methods.  Not being argumentative really but it s true of every human invention not absolutely required to survive.  A personal car or a public bus, it doesn't matter both are luxuries and at this time I still choose the one that gives me the most personal freedom and freedom of choice.
Again, not trying to be argumentative with you Mike just stating my opinion on the whole "we had a choice" thing.  I realize we could go to extremes here and talk about nukes and DDT and all kinds of things and there are many grey areas and many areas where I would fall squarely into your point and appear hypocritical to what I just stated.  My strong stance is likely based on my love of the automobile and my idsgust at the endless groups that seemed poised to take it away from us.

[Mike DC]

I don't want to take away the automobile.  

But the automobile isn't any fun in suburbia, it's just a choir.  The car is no longer designed to use for 5000 miles/yr of enjoyable motoring in the countryside.  Now it's designed for 15,000+ miles/yr as a daily suburban appliance.  It has become more important for it to be staggeringly crashworthy, clean burning, long-lasting, comfortable for long spells in traffic jams and objectionable weather, etc.  Our priorities for how we build a car have changed as our usage patterns have changed.  We no longer build cars for fun because, on average, cars are no longer being used for fun like they once were.  (Heck, look at the trend of high school kids that don't want to get drivers licenses today.  Can you imagine that happening 50 years ago?)  

IMHO cars would be more fun in a culture that had been less radically altered around them.  I'd much rather pay more money for gas, and use cars less often but in more enjoyable circumstances.  It's not fun to pay more money for something but IMO we're already paying those additional costs indirectly.

[Steve P.]

I do not have an opinion on this as I have not heard enough about it to make a judgement, but ,,, really, there is a trend of kids that DON'T want to get their license??? I don't think that is true around here!!!!!

[FLG]

I do not have an opinion on this as I have not heard enough about it to make a judgement, but ,,, really, there is a trend of kids that DON'T want to get their license??? I don't think that is true around here!!!!!

Another story here in NYC, a lot of friends have no license and no car, with no plans of getting either...sometimes i cant blame em, insurance is high, parking is non existent, than you need to deal with when you get a ticket, registration costs, license costs, and the fact its not really necessary if you dont leave the 5 boroughs or NJ...in FL its required, around here i can leave my house now (3am) and walk around the corner for whatever food i need.

[Steve P.]

Ahhhh, forgot you are in the NYC area....  Here it is just like Upstate NY. Gotta have it the day you become of age... Our insurance is outrageous here compared to Rochester, NY...  Still, the kids are driving anything they can as soon as they can... 

[FLG]

Ahhhh, forgot you are in the NYC area....  Here it is just like Upstate NY. Gotta have it the day you become of age... Our insurance is outrageous here compared to Rochester, NY...  Still, the kids are driving anything they can as soon as they can... 

Yep, insurance is nuts...though depends on the car. A lot of friends want to buy new cars, than they find out there gonna need to spend 3-4k for insurance for the year, or they go with a used car but just got there license so insurance rates are still high.

Im (23) with a clean record, and took the safe driving discount program, also had my license since 17....decent liability is only 120$ a month for my BMW. Depends on the car, your driving record, and how long youve had your license.


One of the reasons i can NEVER permanently move out of Brooklyn, im up during the night hours because i work days and i simply cant deal with being hungry at 3am and not having a DAMN thing open, and the idea of having to DRIVE everywhere simply does not compute. Plus the humidity, you guys can keep that!

[Mike DC]

The trend of teens not wanting to drive is still small.  But the fact that it's happening at all is noteworthy IMHO.  Of course it's most common in the dense urban centers but it does show up in other areas too.

[Ghoste]

I have noted the trend as well but around here I chalk it up to other factors.  When we (well me anyway) were teens, a licence was relatively easy to get and it represented freedom.  Now it is far more costly, complicated and lengthy to get that same permit.  Add in graduated licencing with all of the restrictions on night driving, freeway driving, driving with passengers etc and the attraction to drive is GREATLY lessened.  Then, from the parents side you have unholy insurance surcharges for a driving teen so it becomes a big encouraging factor to force them to just drive the kids.  That way you "know" where they are (haha) and they aren't driving drunk and you saved money etc.  So the freedom and attraction are gone.
I'd point out that much of that, well nearly all of it where I live, can be directly attributed to government intervention and bureaucratic money grabs as well.

[Mike DC]

I see your point but I think it reinforces my earlier argument. 

Driving isn't fun for kids anymore because it has become a way to give them more responsibilities, not more freedoms.  That's because using an automobile isn't something people do for recreation, it's something they do to participate in the working world.  We've restricted away many of the freedoms that driving used to have,  and the changes of a suburban culture have taken away many others. 

[charger_fan_4ever]

What will be the straw that brakes the camel's back ? or will we just continue to take it ?
You guys in the states need to start packing heat at town hall meetings. They just keep putting it to us. Up here in canauck land they disarmed us years ago so we are helpless.

I agree with Troy i'd say Canada tries this stupidity first.

[TK73]

You guys in the states need to start packing heat at town hall meetings.

That's just plain FUCKED UP


Besides that a whole thread on some BS proposal some dipstick politician spouted off then a "certain" portion of the population gets their TP panties wadded and starts spreading this crap.

[Ghoste]

Just imagine how angry you would be if it were a right wing proposal coming from a city in Arizona or Texas.

[440]

Or how angry you'd be if they started something along the lines of a "Classic Car Tax" that was structured similarly to property tax.

[Ghoste]

And is that idea really so far fetched tha they wouldn't try it?  Remember clunker laws.

[TK73]

More than enough right wing ideology in this country to hack me off... Fortunately I love my country, understand it is not perfect and do what I can to support what I see as a path to improve it. 

This thread, specifically, is irritating because some idiot idea, that will never work ,gets so much attention as a serious topic... THEN a Canadian advocates a posture of implied violence in our local political discussion. (Giffords)

[440]

And is that idea really so far fetched tha they wouldn't try it?  Remember clunker laws.

It's quite within the realm of reality. Why should these people be able to enjoy environment depleting cars and not have to pay for it. Lets tax em'

Even though my truck is within the allowable smog limits I still get slugged a gross polluter tax.

Unfortunately these ideas and proposed laws eventually materialize... Look at gay marriage, they finally got that through. Just give it enough time.

[aussiemuscle]

Jeremy Clarkson mentioned this in the Top Gear news section (it's also being considered in the UK).
Some of his points were
-instead of two or three big companies collecting fuel tax and paying the govt, you'd be chasing every single car for tax.
-if they replaced the fuel tax (which was suggested it would replace it), people with big gas guzzling cars could pay the same tax someone driving a Prius (how cool would that be?)

in addition to paying tax on fuel, you also pay it to register your car, your license, when you buy the car (stamp duty, luxury car tax), toll roads. it's never ending.

[Steve P.]

If all were back to work and paying taxes into the coffers and not collecting from the coffers we would be in much better shape. Especially if wages were worth a crap!!!

My.02

[LaOtto70Charger]

If all were back to work and paying taxes into the coffers and not collecting from the coffers we would be in much better shape. Especially if wages were worth a crap!!!

My.02

Good point.  Another would be how do we want to pay for all the roads in this country?  Indiana leased out a toll road to a private company to get the cash to spruce up roads not too long ago.  Budget is balanced now, but already heard on the local news that the road budget is running low.  Sooner or later taxes revenue needs to go up to fix them again.  Personally I'd rather pay more in a tax of some sort than drive on the chip and seal stuff they do to get by.

[Steve P.]

Agreed.. We have lived in Florida since 1994. Moving here from Rochester, NY. it was incredibly nice to drive on roads with zero pot holes. The roads and highways here were always like driving on brand new pavement. Not so much over the past 5-6 years. The roadways here are getting so bad now that I've heard talk of lowering the speed limits instead of repairing/replacing top coats. 

US. 19 is one of the deadliest highways in the country, between Port Richey and South St. Pete, and today it quite literally pains me to drive on it. It's like being back in NY. without the salt rotted cars. 

[Ghoste]

Don't native Floridians blame the high accident rates on bad drivers from the north?

[Dino]

Don't native Floridians blame the high accident rates on bad drivers from the north?

Native Floridian?  I don't think there is such a thing!   

[Steve P.]

I have a long story about that, but yes they do, until they go up home with me. Then they swear they will never give NYers shit ever again..... 

[68 Bullitt Charger]

Very simple,  Drive cars with no navigation!!!  That will be the day I pay per mile!!!!!  The economy will crash as will buying new cars causing the Car Industry to go bankrupt. Never gonna hapopen IMO.

[Ghoste]

I wouldn't be so sure.  It will be a gradual change like the usurpation of many other former liberties.