Dumb question for you '70 guys

[chargervert]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

[chargervert]

So is it accurate to say the 500 is essentially an exterior package and the SE is interior trim?

The 70 Charger 500,was a trim,and interior upgrade on the base Charger. The SE was a trim and interior up grade,that included Leather faced front seats,upgraded door panels with woodgrain,and map pockets,(which were no longer standard in Chargers that didn't have the SE package) woodgrain instrument panel,a Vynal top,wheel opening moldings,and rocker panel moldings. The SE package was available on the base Charger,the Charger 500,and The Charger R/T!

[Ghoste]

Actually, with Coronets (at least in 68 and 69 I'm pretty sure 70 as well but I don't know it for sure), the RT gets the 500 trim.  That is the same taillights and interior as a 500.  The Super Bee got the same trim level as a 440.  A similar situation exists with Plymouth from 68-70 where Road Runner's were based on Belvederes and GTX's had Satellite trim.
It'd be accurate in those cases to say that the trim level designated the car's basic model and the performance package gave it a drivetrain upgrade.

[Chris G.]

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Prove It. Not words or memories, but actual proof.

[Chris G.]

The 70 Charger 500,was a trim,and interior upgrade on the base Charger. The SE was a trim and interior up grade,that included Leather faced front seats,upgraded door panels with woodgrain,and map pockets,(which were no longer standard in Chargers that didn't have the SE package) woodgrain instrument panel,a Vynal top,wheel opening moldings,and rocker panel moldings. The SE package was available on the base Charger,the Charger 500,and The Charger R/T!

'Vert...Vinyl top? Rocker Panel mouldings? Where are you getting your info?

[694spdRT]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Keep in mind many of the 1970 500's did not get the 500 badges due to shortages. Are you positive the VIN was XH29 and the car was not altered by a previous owner? Until there is some documented evidence I will go with Burnt on the available packages.

[bull]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Keep in mind many of the 1970 500's did not get the 500 badges due to shortages. Are you positive the VIN was XH29 and the car was not altered by a previous owner? Until there is some documented evidence I will go with Burnt on the available packages.

Shortages, aka, trying to save a buck maybe? Seems like the '70 model year was the year they obviously decided to cut a few corners on the base model. What does the 'H' stand for if 'S' is for special and 'P' is for premium on the '68 and '69 models?

[694spdRT]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Keep in mind many of the 1970 500's did not get the 500 badges due to shortages. Are you positive the VIN was XH29 and the car was not altered by a previous owner? Until there is some documented evidence I will go with Burnt on the available packages.

Shortages, aka, trying to save a buck maybe? Seems like the '70 model year was the year they obviously decided to cut a few corners on the base model. What does the 'H' stand for if 'S' is for special and 'P' is for premium on the '68 and '69 models?

Here is the discussion on the emblems from the '70 Registry.

http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=185

[Dodge Don]

BurntRT is correct. We haver never ever seen an XH29 "base" charger with the SE option....and it simply was not an available option. The XH29 cars came with vinyl bench seats only. You could only get bucket seats with the 500 or R/T. Thus if you were to somehow get the sales guy to jot down the A47 option they would have an interesting time trying to put leather on a bench seat.

Certainly we should never say never however at the 70 Charger Registry we work under the policy that it must be proven with a fender tag or broadcast sheet. And we can spot fakes a mile away.

[Red440]

BurntRT is correct. We haver never ever seen an XH29 "base" charger with the SE option....and it simply was not an available option. The XH29 cars came with vinyl bench seats only. You could only get bucket seats with the 500 or R/T. Thus if you were to somehow get the sales guy to jot down the A47 option they would have an interesting time trying to put leather on a bench seat.

Certainly we should never say never however at the 70 Charger Registry we work under the policy that it must be proven with a fender tag or broadcast sheet. And we can spot fakes a mile away.

My XH 29 Base model came with these buckets.
I do not have either a build sheet or fende tag to back it up, but they fit wth the general condition of the car so they have been in there a long time.

[Dodge Don]

Many XH29 cars had buckets swapped in later. Too bad no tag/sheet.

[472 R/T SE]

None of my info. shows it.  But you have to remember who you're talking to...

[Dodge Don]

None of my info. shows it.  But you have to remember who you're talking to...

Ummmm....the guy with some awesome Mopars who knows his stuff. 

[chargervert]

I no longer have the 70 Charger SE,It had the finish panel,with just the Charger script with the arrow,and The same emblems on the grille,no 500 emblems on the car anywhere. It had the SE emblems on the roof,leather seats,woodgrain dash,and door panels. VIN was XP29LO. The Vynal top is listed in the sales brochure as part of the SE package.They did build XP code Chargers that weren't 500s, If they didn't there would be no finish panels with the arrow scripts on them,because XH code Chargers did not have the finish panels.

[Chris G.]

I no longer have the 70 Charger SE,It had the finish panel,with just the Charger script with the arrow,and The same emblems on the grille,no 500 emblems on the car anywhere. It had the SE emblems on the roof,leather seats,woodgrain dash,and door panels. VIN was XP29LO. The Vynal top is listed in the sales brochure as part of the SE package.They did build XP code Chargers that weren't 500s, If they didn't there would be no finish panels with the arrow scripts on them,because XH code Chargers did not have the finish panels.

I rest my case.

[Dodge Don]

I no longer have the 70 Charger SE,It had the finish panel,with just the Charger script with the arrow,and The same emblems on the grille,no 500 emblems on the car anywhere. It had the SE emblems on the roof,leather seats,woodgrain dash,and door panels. VIN was XP29LO. The Vynal top is listed in the sales brochure as part of the SE package.They did build XP code Chargers that weren't 500s, If they didn't there would be no finish panels with the arrow scripts on them,because XH code Chargers did not have the finish panels.

Chargervert, your a tad off the mark. Your car was a 383 2bbl Charger 500. It is now common knowledge that many 500s did not come with both 500 emblems. In some cases both were missing, in some cases only the front or rear was missing. When missing they were replaced by the standard Charger arrow emblem. I can see where you could get confused on that.

The vinyl roof was not part of the SE package and is not reflected as such in the sales manuals which are scanned and publicly available on the 70 Charger Registry site. Nor did it include Rocker Panel Mouldings.

Bottom line.....the SE option was not available on XH29 base Chargers, and yours was a 500 model XP29 that could be ordered with the SE option.

Case closed.

[JimShine]

"One more thing...if you think about it the Coronets got the same treatment. The base 69 Coronet model didn't have the same taillights as a Coronet 500 or Coronet R/T. I am pretty sure it was the same for the 70 Coronet models."

Yeah, in 70 the R/T and 500 had taillights unique to themselves. Super Bee's and low end Coronets had a totally different setup.

Standard panel


500 and R/T panel

[chargervert]

I have owned 13 70 Chargers,of them 4 were R/Ts, of the rest none of them were 500s,none of them had any 500 markings on any of them! All were coded XP,except 2 were XH,none of the XH cars had rear finish panels! Of the other 7 coded XP cars all had the rear finish panels with the arrows on them,and were the same on the grille emblems! 2 were SE cars. I have had 4 SE cars,all had rocker moldings,all had vynal tops,all had whell opening moldings! XP has been the Designation,for a standard Charger since 1966. I believe the 500 package is a trim option package on the newly introduced XH base model(the economy Charger)which also used the XP Designation.If what you are saying is true,then there would be no rear finish panels with the arrows on them at all,because XH cars had no finish panels on them at all! so if all XP cars were 500s then why would they even produce a finish panel that has the arrows on them,there would only be 500,and R/T finish panels!

[Chris G.]

I have owned 13 70 Chargers,of them 4 were R/Ts, of the rest none of them were 500s,none of them had any 500 markings on any of them!

It has already been stated that not all 500's came with the badges.

All were coded XP,except 2 were XH,none of the XH cars had rear finish panels!

So far so good.

Of the other 7 coded XP cars all had the rear finish panels with the arrows on them,and were the same on the grille emblems! 2 were SE cars.

Again, this sounds correct so far.

I have had 4 SE cars,all had rocker moldings,all had vynal tops,all had whell opening moldings!

That's just a coincidence. The lip mouldings were standard on the 500, but the rockers and vinyl tops were just standard options.

XP has been the Designation,for a standard Charger since 1966.

Not in 1970. There were 3 different models to chose from XH, XP and XS.

I believe the 500 package is a trim option package on the newly introduced XH base model(the economy Charger)which also used the XP Designation.

This comment is a little confusing. the 500 is a model and not a package. They did not piggy back the XP (package as you describe it) and put it on the XH model. I hope by now you are seeing that there are 3 different model in 1970 The XH, XP and XS.

If what you are saying is true,then there would be no rear finish panels with the arrows on them at all,because XH cars had no finish panels on them at all! so if all XP cars were 500s then why would they even produce a finish panel that has the arrows on them,there would only be 500,and R/T finish panels!

It has been mentioned that not all 500's(XP) came from the factory with the 500 badges. They all received the finish panel. The arrows are just badges, they are not molded into the actual panel so it makes it easy to slap on whatever was available.

Try checking out the site and you will have a whole new outlook on the '70 Charger. It's not our word vs. your's, it's Chrysler's facts. 

[Dodge Don]

I have owned 13 70 Chargers,of them 4 were R/Ts, of the rest none of them were 500s,none of them had any 500 markings on any of them! All were coded XP,except 2 were XH,none of the XH cars had rear finish panels! Of the other 7 coded XP cars all had the rear finish panels with the arrows on them,and were the same on the grille emblems! 2 were SE cars. I have had 4 SE cars,all had rocker moldings,all had vynal tops,all had whell opening moldings! XP has been the Designation,for a standard Charger since 1966. I believe the 500 package is a trim option package on the newly introduced XH base model(the economy Charger)which also used the XP Designation.If what you are saying is true,then there would be no rear finish panels with the arrows on them at all,because XH cars had no finish panels on them at all! so if all XP cars were 500s then why would they even produce a finish panel that has the arrows on them,there would only be 500,and R/T finish panels!

That's alot of !!!! Are you yelling or something?

I suggest you read my previous response again....slowly this time The emblem has nothing to do with the finish panel. And I'd recommend you do some research on the topic.....even a smidgen of research would do nicely.

[Charger_Fan]

I had additional stuff all ready to go, but these guys beat me to it...however, they seem to have left out the link to our 500 "debate" thread.

http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=185

[hemigeno]

Ty (694spdRT) already posted a link.  Interesting reading!

[Charger_Fan]

Ty (694spdRT) already posted a link.  Interesting reading!

Woops.
I guess I'm blind in one eye & can't see outta my browneye.

[694spdRT]

Ty (694spdRT) already posted a link.  Interesting reading!

Woops.
I guess I'm blind in one eye & can't see outta my browneye.

That's OK...judging by some of the responses I don't think everyone read it the 1st time around. 

[JimShine]

I learn something new every day. I saw a 70 charger for sale recently and I thought it had 69 taillights. Turns out they were 70 taillights. Never realized that there two different taillights available on 70's.

Here's a base model 70 Charger taillight panel.

The last time I have seen the pictured car the owner had installed R/T emblems on it. Yeah, he is fooling people on that one.