Dumb question for you '70 guys

[bull]

What's the difference between a '70 Charger 500 and a '70 Charger SE? Or is the 500 basically the base model, the non-500 the sub-base model and the SE a fancier 500? Please explain.

[Chris G.]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

[Charger1970]

The 70 models were...
Charger (base model with taillights similar to a '69 and standard bench seat)
Charger 500
Charger R/T

According to my 70 Facts Manual, the SE package could be added to the 500 and R/T models. It included leather faced front bucket seats, wood grain dash, pedal dress-up, light group, deep dish wheel covers and a C pillar emblem.

[Charger1970]

DOH!  That dang burnt70R/T beat me to it AGAIN! 

[Chris G.]

DOH!  That dang burnt70R/T beat me to it AGAIN! 

Sorry Doug.  It's all I'm good at. 

[bull]

Ok. I was just reading a year-old article about that 1970 Charger that has over 400,000 miles on it. The guy bought it new and drove it everywhere but the article said nothing about it being a 500. It just said it was a 1970 Charger SE.

[hotrod98]

I learn something new every day. I saw a 70 charger for sale recently and I thought it had 69 taillights. Turns out they were 70 taillights. Never realized that there two different taillights available on 70's.

[dd44068]

whats the difference between the two different tail lights on a 70

[andy74]

Ok. I was just reading a year-old article about that 1970 Charger that has over 400,000 miles on it. The guy bought it new and drove it everywhere but the article said nothing about it being a 500. It just said it was a 1970 Charger SE.

i read that article too,guy bought it new in 70,and has had it since-pretty cool that you would put that many miles on one car,and still have it-but thats why they are still around,people care about chargers!

[Charger_Fan]

whats the difference between the two different tail lights on a 70

There's really four different ones used in '70 Chargers...2 early style, 2 late style.
The later ones had reflectors behind the lenses, the earlier ones were like '69 cars & had no reflectors.

Here's a thread Dodge Don made regarding this...looks like the pics are dead, though.

http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=22

Here's a pic of mine, see the rectangular reflector?
(sorry, it's huge)

[MadScientist]

I met the guy with the 400K mile Charger in LA 2 years ago.  I believe the car is a 500 model. 

MS

[dd44068]

thanks charger fan i never knew that before you learn something new every day

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

its a 500SE that blue and white 400k car even though it dont say 500 anywhere on car-MATT

[AKcharger]

Don't forget the base model had no upper door panels either...just the steel door exposed like on darts and dusters

500's came stock with more trim too wheel well and rocker moldings as well as a clock in the dash if I recall my '70 brochure correctly

[bull]

Don't forget the base model had no upper door panels either...just the steel door exposed like on darts and dusters

500's came stock with more trim too wheel well and rocker moldings as well as a clock in the dash if I recall my '70 brochure correctly

That was my first Charger, a base '70. I didn't know Chargers even came with upper door pads and bucket seats until several years later when I saw a '68. Even then I just assumed it was a '68 thing.

[Big Lebowski]

That's weird, I've never owned one without the upper door pads, but most of my '70 Chargers were R/T's and 500's

[Ghoste]

So is it accurate to say the 500 is essentially an exterior package and the SE is interior trim?

[Johnny SixPack]

You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

Hater!

I like my SEs.

Heck, I liked the first one so much I got another.

And don't you dare make fun of my map pockets! 

 

[bull]

I believe a '70 Charger 500 is basically the same as a '68 or '69 base model Charger. BTW, if anyone cares that article on the 400,000+ mile '70 was in the Feb. '05 Hemmings Muscle Machines Magazine. Very interesting.

[694spdRT]

I believe a '70 Charger 500 is basically the same as a '68 or '69 base model Charger.

The 500 took the place of the base XP29 Charger from '68 and '69. The XH29 Charger was the base model in 1970 and has the previously standard options mentioned above deleted to lower the base price.

[Chris G.]

So is it accurate to say the 500 is essentially an exterior package and the SE is interior trim?

Ghoste, the 500 was more of an interior upgrade than an exterior upgrade. The outside of the 500 got the tail panel finish piece and 500 badges (most of the time). The interior got the upper door pads, bucket seats, clock, wheel lip mouldings, etc. The SE is completely an interior package with the exception of the badges and wheel covers.

You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I like my SEs.

Heck, I liked the first one so much I got another.

And don't you dare make fun of my map pockets! 

 

Johnny, I like your SE as well. Can I have it?   But seriously, to take the Charger badge off the roof sail was a crime. They should have just added the SE badge underneath it. Oh and map pockets? Don't even get me started.  

[Dodge Don]

So is it accurate to say the 500 is essentially an exterior package and the SE is interior trim?

Ghoste, the 500 was more of an interior upgrade than an exterior upgrade. The outside of the 500 got the tail panel finish piece and 500 badges (most of the time). The interior got the upper door pads, bucket seats, clock, wheel lip mouldings, etc. The SE is completely an interior package with the exception of the badges and wheel covers.

You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I like my SEs.

Heck, I liked the first one so much I got another.

And don't you dare make fun of my map pockets! 

 

Johnny, I like your SE as well. Can I have it?   But seriously, to take the Charger badge off the roof sail was a crime. They should have just added the SE badge underneath it. Oh and map pockets? Don't even get me started.  

This is the one thing Chris and I are at odds on........A47 SE option is aces in my book. If your going to go fast....go fast with style.

[Charger1970]

I learn something new every day. I saw a 70 charger for sale recently and I thought it had 69 taillights. Turns out they were 70 taillights. Never realized that there two different taillights available on 70's.

Here's a base model 70 Charger taillight panel.

[Charger1970]

Here's my 70 Charger 500 taillight panel. The 70 R/T has the same taillight panel.

[Charger1970]

One more thing...if you think about it the Coronets got the same treatment. The base 69 Coronet model didn't have the same taillights as a Coronet 500 or Coronet R/T. I am pretty sure it was the same for the 70 Coronet models.

(SORRY FOR THE THREAD HIJACK  )

[chargervert]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

[chargervert]

So is it accurate to say the 500 is essentially an exterior package and the SE is interior trim?

The 70 Charger 500,was a trim,and interior upgrade on the base Charger. The SE was a trim and interior up grade,that included Leather faced front seats,upgraded door panels with woodgrain,and map pockets,(which were no longer standard in Chargers that didn't have the SE package) woodgrain instrument panel,a Vynal top,wheel opening moldings,and rocker panel moldings. The SE package was available on the base Charger,the Charger 500,and The Charger R/T!

[Ghoste]

Actually, with Coronets (at least in 68 and 69 I'm pretty sure 70 as well but I don't know it for sure), the RT gets the 500 trim.  That is the same taillights and interior as a 500.  The Super Bee got the same trim level as a 440.  A similar situation exists with Plymouth from 68-70 where Road Runner's were based on Belvederes and GTX's had Satellite trim.
It'd be accurate in those cases to say that the trim level designated the car's basic model and the performance package gave it a drivetrain upgrade.

[Chris G.]

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Prove It. Not words or memories, but actual proof.

[Chris G.]

The 70 Charger 500,was a trim,and interior upgrade on the base Charger. The SE was a trim and interior up grade,that included Leather faced front seats,upgraded door panels with woodgrain,and map pockets,(which were no longer standard in Chargers that didn't have the SE package) woodgrain instrument panel,a Vynal top,wheel opening moldings,and rocker panel moldings. The SE package was available on the base Charger,the Charger 500,and The Charger R/T!

'Vert...Vinyl top? Rocker Panel mouldings? Where are you getting your info?

[694spdRT]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Keep in mind many of the 1970 500's did not get the 500 badges due to shortages. Are you positive the VIN was XH29 and the car was not altered by a previous owner? Until there is some documented evidence I will go with Burnt on the available packages.

[bull]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Keep in mind many of the 1970 500's did not get the 500 badges due to shortages. Are you positive the VIN was XH29 and the car was not altered by a previous owner? Until there is some documented evidence I will go with Burnt on the available packages.

Shortages, aka, trying to save a buck maybe? Seems like the '70 model year was the year they obviously decided to cut a few corners on the base model. What does the 'H' stand for if 'S' is for special and 'P' is for premium on the '68 and '69 models?

[694spdRT]

There's no base model (XH) SE. Either you got the 500 SE or RT/SE. Like you said, it was basically a fancier interior. The 500 comes standard with a black gauge cluster. When you got the SE, it turned into the wood grain applique. You also got the door panels, SE emblem on the sail panel (gaak) and the other goodies that come in the SE package. How's that? 

I had a 70 Charger SE,that was not an R/T or a 500. They did make 70 Charger SEs!

Keep in mind many of the 1970 500's did not get the 500 badges due to shortages. Are you positive the VIN was XH29 and the car was not altered by a previous owner? Until there is some documented evidence I will go with Burnt on the available packages.

Shortages, aka, trying to save a buck maybe? Seems like the '70 model year was the year they obviously decided to cut a few corners on the base model. What does the 'H' stand for if 'S' is for special and 'P' is for premium on the '68 and '69 models?

Here is the discussion on the emblems from the '70 Registry.

http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=185

[Dodge Don]

BurntRT is correct. We haver never ever seen an XH29 "base" charger with the SE option....and it simply was not an available option. The XH29 cars came with vinyl bench seats only. You could only get bucket seats with the 500 or R/T. Thus if you were to somehow get the sales guy to jot down the A47 option they would have an interesting time trying to put leather on a bench seat.

Certainly we should never say never however at the 70 Charger Registry we work under the policy that it must be proven with a fender tag or broadcast sheet. And we can spot fakes a mile away.

[Red440]

BurntRT is correct. We haver never ever seen an XH29 "base" charger with the SE option....and it simply was not an available option. The XH29 cars came with vinyl bench seats only. You could only get bucket seats with the 500 or R/T. Thus if you were to somehow get the sales guy to jot down the A47 option they would have an interesting time trying to put leather on a bench seat.

Certainly we should never say never however at the 70 Charger Registry we work under the policy that it must be proven with a fender tag or broadcast sheet. And we can spot fakes a mile away.

My XH 29 Base model came with these buckets.
I do not have either a build sheet or fende tag to back it up, but they fit wth the general condition of the car so they have been in there a long time.

[Dodge Don]

Many XH29 cars had buckets swapped in later. Too bad no tag/sheet.

[472 R/T SE]

None of my info. shows it.  But you have to remember who you're talking to...

[Dodge Don]

None of my info. shows it.  But you have to remember who you're talking to...

Ummmm....the guy with some awesome Mopars who knows his stuff. 

[chargervert]

I no longer have the 70 Charger SE,It had the finish panel,with just the Charger script with the arrow,and The same emblems on the grille,no 500 emblems on the car anywhere. It had the SE emblems on the roof,leather seats,woodgrain dash,and door panels. VIN was XP29LO. The Vynal top is listed in the sales brochure as part of the SE package.They did build XP code Chargers that weren't 500s, If they didn't there would be no finish panels with the arrow scripts on them,because XH code Chargers did not have the finish panels.

[Chris G.]

I no longer have the 70 Charger SE,It had the finish panel,with just the Charger script with the arrow,and The same emblems on the grille,no 500 emblems on the car anywhere. It had the SE emblems on the roof,leather seats,woodgrain dash,and door panels. VIN was XP29LO. The Vynal top is listed in the sales brochure as part of the SE package.They did build XP code Chargers that weren't 500s, If they didn't there would be no finish panels with the arrow scripts on them,because XH code Chargers did not have the finish panels.

I rest my case.

[Dodge Don]

I no longer have the 70 Charger SE,It had the finish panel,with just the Charger script with the arrow,and The same emblems on the grille,no 500 emblems on the car anywhere. It had the SE emblems on the roof,leather seats,woodgrain dash,and door panels. VIN was XP29LO. The Vynal top is listed in the sales brochure as part of the SE package.They did build XP code Chargers that weren't 500s, If they didn't there would be no finish panels with the arrow scripts on them,because XH code Chargers did not have the finish panels.

Chargervert, your a tad off the mark. Your car was a 383 2bbl Charger 500. It is now common knowledge that many 500s did not come with both 500 emblems. In some cases both were missing, in some cases only the front or rear was missing. When missing they were replaced by the standard Charger arrow emblem. I can see where you could get confused on that.

The vinyl roof was not part of the SE package and is not reflected as such in the sales manuals which are scanned and publicly available on the 70 Charger Registry site. Nor did it include Rocker Panel Mouldings.

Bottom line.....the SE option was not available on XH29 base Chargers, and yours was a 500 model XP29 that could be ordered with the SE option.

Case closed.

[JimShine]

"One more thing...if you think about it the Coronets got the same treatment. The base 69 Coronet model didn't have the same taillights as a Coronet 500 or Coronet R/T. I am pretty sure it was the same for the 70 Coronet models."

Yeah, in 70 the R/T and 500 had taillights unique to themselves. Super Bee's and low end Coronets had a totally different setup.

Standard panel


500 and R/T panel

[chargervert]

I have owned 13 70 Chargers,of them 4 were R/Ts, of the rest none of them were 500s,none of them had any 500 markings on any of them! All were coded XP,except 2 were XH,none of the XH cars had rear finish panels! Of the other 7 coded XP cars all had the rear finish panels with the arrows on them,and were the same on the grille emblems! 2 were SE cars. I have had 4 SE cars,all had rocker moldings,all had vynal tops,all had whell opening moldings! XP has been the Designation,for a standard Charger since 1966. I believe the 500 package is a trim option package on the newly introduced XH base model(the economy Charger)which also used the XP Designation.If what you are saying is true,then there would be no rear finish panels with the arrows on them at all,because XH cars had no finish panels on them at all! so if all XP cars were 500s then why would they even produce a finish panel that has the arrows on them,there would only be 500,and R/T finish panels!

[Chris G.]

I have owned 13 70 Chargers,of them 4 were R/Ts, of the rest none of them were 500s,none of them had any 500 markings on any of them!

It has already been stated that not all 500's came with the badges.

All were coded XP,except 2 were XH,none of the XH cars had rear finish panels!

So far so good.

Of the other 7 coded XP cars all had the rear finish panels with the arrows on them,and were the same on the grille emblems! 2 were SE cars.

Again, this sounds correct so far.

I have had 4 SE cars,all had rocker moldings,all had vynal tops,all had whell opening moldings!

That's just a coincidence. The lip mouldings were standard on the 500, but the rockers and vinyl tops were just standard options.

XP has been the Designation,for a standard Charger since 1966.

Not in 1970. There were 3 different models to chose from XH, XP and XS.

I believe the 500 package is a trim option package on the newly introduced XH base model(the economy Charger)which also used the XP Designation.

This comment is a little confusing. the 500 is a model and not a package. They did not piggy back the XP (package as you describe it) and put it on the XH model. I hope by now you are seeing that there are 3 different model in 1970 The XH, XP and XS.

If what you are saying is true,then there would be no rear finish panels with the arrows on them at all,because XH cars had no finish panels on them at all! so if all XP cars were 500s then why would they even produce a finish panel that has the arrows on them,there would only be 500,and R/T finish panels!

It has been mentioned that not all 500's(XP) came from the factory with the 500 badges. They all received the finish panel. The arrows are just badges, they are not molded into the actual panel so it makes it easy to slap on whatever was available.

Try checking out the site and you will have a whole new outlook on the '70 Charger. It's not our word vs. your's, it's Chrysler's facts. 

[Dodge Don]

I have owned 13 70 Chargers,of them 4 were R/Ts, of the rest none of them were 500s,none of them had any 500 markings on any of them! All were coded XP,except 2 were XH,none of the XH cars had rear finish panels! Of the other 7 coded XP cars all had the rear finish panels with the arrows on them,and were the same on the grille emblems! 2 were SE cars. I have had 4 SE cars,all had rocker moldings,all had vynal tops,all had whell opening moldings! XP has been the Designation,for a standard Charger since 1966. I believe the 500 package is a trim option package on the newly introduced XH base model(the economy Charger)which also used the XP Designation.If what you are saying is true,then there would be no rear finish panels with the arrows on them at all,because XH cars had no finish panels on them at all! so if all XP cars were 500s then why would they even produce a finish panel that has the arrows on them,there would only be 500,and R/T finish panels!

That's alot of !!!! Are you yelling or something?

I suggest you read my previous response again....slowly this time The emblem has nothing to do with the finish panel. And I'd recommend you do some research on the topic.....even a smidgen of research would do nicely.

[Charger_Fan]

I had additional stuff all ready to go, but these guys beat me to it...however, they seem to have left out the link to our 500 "debate" thread.

http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=185

[hemigeno]

Ty (694spdRT) already posted a link.  Interesting reading!

[Charger_Fan]

Ty (694spdRT) already posted a link.  Interesting reading!

Woops.
I guess I'm blind in one eye & can't see outta my browneye.

[694spdRT]

Ty (694spdRT) already posted a link.  Interesting reading!

Woops.
I guess I'm blind in one eye & can't see outta my browneye.

That's OK...judging by some of the responses I don't think everyone read it the 1st time around. 

[JimShine]

I learn something new every day. I saw a 70 charger for sale recently and I thought it had 69 taillights. Turns out they were 70 taillights. Never realized that there two different taillights available on 70's.

Here's a base model 70 Charger taillight panel.

The last time I have seen the pictured car the owner had installed R/T emblems on it. Yeah, he is fooling people on that one.

[694spdRT]

I posted this on another Charger 500 thread too. I don't know if it helps or makes it worse. 

I can see why this can be so confusing to some as it differs from previous year Charger's. This is how I have come to understand it and maybe it will help a little on the confusion. In 1970 Dodge adopted a designation for the Charger similar to the Coronet lineup. Initially the base 68-69 Charger was built as an upscale model car comparable in features to the Coronet 500. In 1970 a few options were deleted on the Charger to keep the base price more attractive. In order to designate the new models for customers Dodge needed to have a seperate model for the upscale version of the Charger. This is where the 1970 Charger 500 began.   

The Coronet 440 model was traditionally one step below the Coronet 500 and carried the WH23 series. The new base model 1970 Charger was one step below the previous Charger model and adopted this with the XH29 designation.

The upscale Coronet 500 model was the WP23 series. The new Charger "500" was now the XP29 which previously was the upscale base model.

The performance Coronet R/T model was the WS23 series. The Charger R/T remained the same as previous years with the XS29 designation.

All of this should not be confused with the XX29 1969 Charger 500 that was designed with stock car racing in mind and really had nothing to do with the XP29 1970 Charger 500 model.

EDIT: Sorry, I was going from memory in the original post and the Coronet actually used "23" for the 2 door hardtop where the Charger used "29" for the sports hardtop version. The theory still applies with the "H" high, "P" premium, a "S" special models.

[JimShine]

Thats an interesting take. I thought of the base line Charger being more in line with the Coronet 440. With the 70 Coronet 500 you received the upgraded tailight panel (like you did on a Charger 500) and buckets were optional (even if Bench was standard). The Coronet 500 also came with woodgrain dash and door accents.