Charger update---Updated with response about claim

[SG1022]

I'm pretty sure it's been a while, so here's the recent updates.

I had gotten my charger running, and was dealing with some exhaust leak/carb issues. The carb's electric choke wasn't working, and had some dead spots in the throttle. I was daily driving it for about two months, and one day while driving, white smoke came pouring out the exhaust and cowl. I took it to my friend's shop, and then came the bad news. The guy who, "rebuilt" my whole motor did just as poorly of a job as he did on my tranny. Not only did I blow a head gasket, but there were craks between the valves on three cylinders. Ontop of that, the cam was shitty, he didn't have a roller timing chain, the harmonic balancer was off the. . . rubber bushing? etc, etc etc.

Fast forward 3 months(to Saturday). My friend put a new cam in, balancer, lifters, Indy heads, valve covers, intake, double roller timing chain, and entirely new gaskets, and some other stuff. I was having trouble located a decent aluminum 360 intake, so Sunday night after work I drove four and a half hours up to Monroe washingtong(arrived there at 11:30), and bought an intake from a guy off craig's list. I got it down to my buddies shop Monday morning, and he had the car ready to go!

The only thing that didn't get done was the carb. Right now it has a shitty Carter 600 or 650. I have a brand new Barry Grant 750cfm DP, but we had to order a fuel rail for it, so it won't get on until next week.

It is an entirely new car! The old motor was a dog, but this new motor sounds incredible(the old motor didn't even have a lope), and really puts you in the seat, ontop of looking much better.

Before:


After:

[Brightyellow69rtse]

looks good nice job man!

[SG1022]

About 11:00 this morning I went out to get some coffee. I was heading back, and right before I passed under I5, I heard a HORRIBLE gutwrenching screeching of metal. I headed up the road to Tualatin, OR to get it on a lift and see what broke.

The damage is as follows:
-Two header tubes completely crushed flat
-Cut out wires torn from motor on driver's side
- right side exhaust horrible mangled
  -headers wrapped around starter
  -headers wrapped around transmission
  -whole driver's side moved off center, towards passenger side
-Shifter cable melted from being moved onto the header
-Trans cross member driver's side bolt sheered off and member possibly bent
-possible bent torsion bar
-oil pan dented by headers
-transmission pan dented by header collectors
-massive exhaust leaks at block due to bent header flanges
-maybe other stuff?

In that spot they are doing roadwork, and have a manhole that is exposed. The concrete triangel around it sits higher than the surrounding(yet to be paved road), and the actual steel manhole sits even higher above that. There were a few cars infront of me, so I couldn't actually see the road  ahread of me. Ontop of that, there were no warning signs or marking to alert driver of it coming up. Regardless, even if it had been posted; it seems unsafe.

I talked to city hall, and it's a state project, and state property. I will be seeking compensation from them.

[SG1022]

And the damage,

[SG1022]

She was looking and sounding pretty good before it all happened. . . 



Not but 3 minutes prior to the accident. . .


I just got the back seats in

[Darkman]

Not sure how it works in the US, but down here we must reduce speed limits if there are roadworks occuring and if there are any hazards in the road after they reopen it.

You do have a claim against them.

I used to manage a road profiling company and we would have been strung up by the short and curlies if we left things like that. Sometimes things like that cannot be fixed in the same shift, but with us if it couldn't be finished, we would have made a temporary ramp to avoid this and removed it when we came back. If damage was caused due to our works at the time, we had to pay for repairs.

Good luck with it!

[SG1022]

Not sure how it works in the US, but down here we must reduce speed limits if there are roadworks occuring and if there are any hazards in the road after they reopen it.

You do have a claim against them.

I used to manage a road profiling company and we would have been strung up by the short and curlies if we left things like that. Sometimes things like that cannot be fixed in the same shift, but with us if it couldn't be finished, we would have made a temporary ramp to avoid this and removed it when we came back. If damage was caused due to our works at the time, we had to pay for repairs.

Good luck with it!

Thanks!

Does that look unusual to leave something like that so exposed?

[Darkman]

Does that look unusual to leave something like that so exposed?

Not unusual. It does happen. But we have to do everything possible to make sure the public is safe

[Fred]

Maybe they figured the minium clearance height would have been sufficient for cars not to hit it. But if your car or any other car is lowered beyond that I don't know if they'ed be willing to pay compensation.   

[myk]

I can't believe that your car is so low that it struck that piece of road.  Chargers are pretty low, but not as low as some other cars so I can imagine other cars hit that piece of road as well?  Is your car significantly lowered?  It doesn't look like it.  Don't fret too much, 'OP; your car will be back on the road soon enough...

[BrianShaughnessy]

Wow. that sux bad 

That road hazard needs to be fixed but at the same time...   Keeping headers tucked up underneath is why I buy TTI's.     

[ACUDANUT]

Sorry for the bad luck. IMO I think your car must be sitting to low for that to happen.  That manhole cover looks to sticking up only about 2 inches. 

[SG1022]

Wow. that sux bad 

That road hazard needs to be fixed but at the same time...   Keeping headers tucked up underneath is why I buy TTI's.     

YES. TTI's will be my next purchase.

It was really hard to photograph the road hazard. I'm not sure if you can see it from the pictures, but not only does the steel portion sit above the level, but the asphalt sits another two inches above, and the concrete, even further above that. That, combined with it not being at all a gradual change before that.

That being said, Hooker headers are the BIGGEST PIECES OF SHIT I have ever used. The driver's side sits INCHES LOWER than the passenger side, by design. Horrible, horrible design. That's not even mentioning the thin exhaust leak prone flanges, and poor access to header bolts. No headers are particularly easy to work on, but these are far worse than the rest.

[myk]

TTi's are the obvious choice but I heard Dough Thorley headers are supposed to be a virtual copy of TTi's designs, and they're also cheaper; just a thought if you're running out of money like me...

[Silver R/T]

Nice 3rd gen, sorry this happened to you.

[Darkman]

Maybe they figured the minium clearance height would have been sufficient for cars not to hit it. But if your car or any other car is lowered beyond that I don't know if they'ed be willing to pay compensation.   

Again, not sure how it works in the US, but here in South Australia, our cars have to be a minimum of 100mm (4") from the lowest part of the car (including exhausts) to the ground surface to be road legal. This is not a lot of clearance, so as long as the car is legal, then the owner should be compensated

[ACUDANUT]

We have a law called inherent road dangers.  It's keeps people from going after trucks that can sometimes throw big enough rocks that can crack your windshield. I hope they don't throw that law at you and the damaged charger.

[Darkman]

Yes they have that law for "uncontrollable events" such as stones etc on the road. However they can't make that law stick if the hazard is controllable (or man made)

[aussiemuscle]

it's still the sexiest car in the parking lot!! 

[myk]

F**k man.  I almost feel like I shoulda chosen purple instead of orange...

[Dino]

Wow that sucks, I hope you get some compensation although I honestly doubt it.  I have headers like that and I need to go at crawl speed to cross even the tiniest of speed bumps as the driver's side collecter flange sits low like yours.  Found that out the hard way.   

[1974dodgecharger]

LMAO on the bumper sticker....

[will]

I'd go get some measurements before they pave. Once they pave it, how are you going to show the height?

[elacruze]

What if it was hit by a motorcycle?

Clearance isn't the issue, traffic management through a construction zone is. Pursue compensation.

Raise your torsion bars if necessary to get legal clearance.

[68blue]

Sharp car, it looks good in that color! Sorry to hear about the mess, good luck getting compensation.

[SG1022]

Well, I have been giving a number for ODOT, and the general contractor. Neither of them have been answering. I have left messages on both voicemails, but haven't heard yet.

This may take a while.  

[SG1022]

Well, The General contractor's claim person has been refusing to answer my phone, and it was not very subtle that their receptionist was leading me in circles as far as actually speaking to them.

He finally contacted me by email, and I sent him my description and photos. This was his reply:

Thank you for sending me the pictures. The pictures you first sent accurately represent the difference in grade between the roadway and top elevation of the manhole - about an inch. The picture you sent showing the manhole flush with the toplift of asphalt isn't representative. The top lift of asphalt we placed was about two inches. In our initial adjustment of the manhole we aim for the manhole to be about one inch above the base course of asphalt (this was actually ground out asphalt but for these purposes I am calling it the base course). Then, immediately before we pave the top lift we put a 1"" paving ring on the manhole to raise it an inch higher so when we pave a 2" thick top lift it is all flush. But that one inch raise to two inches happened when the lane was closed so the last picture you sent isn't representative although I can understand why someone who didn't know our sequence might think it was.
I know it hard to tell the elevation difference from pictures and even tough to measure with a tape measure (we tried) but the math on what we did correlates with your pictures. I believe when you had your troubles it was about one inch. I could be slightly off but that is what I am seeing. We also sloped it up with temporary asphalt to decrease the impact of the bump we are allowed to have.
It is a construction zone and things can't be perfect as we transition from old to new. We are doing everything we can to get this job done as quickly as possible to lesson inconvenience.
I couldn't tell from the angles of your pictures if your vehicle is a low riding vehicle, but I did observe and videotape several cars driving over the same manhole. A couple of them on video and many others we only observed were lower riding cars (Accord types) and they did not have any trouble. While I couldn't tell from the angles of your pictures I suspect that either your vehicle rides lower then the typical low riding car or you had some loose parts nearly dragging already that you may not have been aware of. I'm speculating I don't know.
I'm denying your claim. I could be wrong though so if you still feel we are responsible after considering the above you have the right to file a claim with our insurance company (and of course go beyond that if you don't agree with their decision) . They are more experienced in this type of thing then I am so I think that between your pictures, my pictures, and my video they will have plenty of information to make a fair decision.  Let me know and I will get you in contact with them.
I am sorry this happened and understand your frustration, but from my investigation don't think we are responsible.
Sincerely,
XXX XXXXXX

They also fixed that portion of the road, and I was able to get some photos of it's current state.

The manhole now sits flush with the rest of the asphalt road, excluding the last lane that hasn't been paved over(the last lane being the closest one in the photos). You can clearly see how it is sitting 4-6 inches above the unfinished lane.

[SG1022]

Oh yeah. . . here are some pictures of it with my Cummins before the, 'accident'

[Dino]

Accord types???  My daily is an Accord and it's not low by any means. 

So what's your next step?

[SG1022]

Accord types???  My daily is an Accord and it's not low by any means. 

So what's your next step?

First of all, I am also still talking to ODOT. They haven't denied it falls under their coverage at this point, so they might cover it. If they say it falls under the responsibilities of Kerr Construction, Kerr will be receiving a letter from my attorney. I am not about to let this go. I have already asked him to go ahead and put me in touch with their insurance.

[ACUDANUT]

Your Attorney ?  oh boy, how much is his service ?

[SG1022]

Your Attorney ?  oh boy, how much is his service ?

My family has one on retainer. I'm hoping I'll be able to use his services.

[Indygenerallee]

Your gonna loose, might as well take one for the team and move on, I know it's frustrating as hell but your gonna spend more money on the attorney than fixing the damage!

[SG1022]

Your gonna loose, might as well take one for the team and move on, I know it's frustrating as hell but your gonna spend more money on the attorney than fixing the damage!

Gee, thanks for the inspiring words my Charger brethren! 

[Brock Lee]

Unfortunately it is likely the truth. The headers are a non-factory modification that alters the clearance. They will say you should have manifolds or adjusted the ride height of your car to compensate.  

[ACUDANUT]

Attorneys will make you broke in a blink of a eye.  However, if you win you might get your attorneys fees refunded by the construction company.

[Ghoste]

He does speculate in his reply that your car might be too low.  That is going to be the point you have to prove in my opinion, not the poor condition of the construction zone.  If the family lawyer is on retainer and is ehtical in any regard though, he should tell you truthfully if you have a case.  Good luck.

[ACUDANUT]

Attorneys could care a less if you have a case or not. They get paid to debate, regardless of the outcome.  Ask me how I know 

[Ghoste]

Not Atticus Finch.

[elacruze]

Indygenerallee is right, a lawyer will cost you more than you get back.

So the answer is, go to the courthouse and file on your own behalf. It will cost something like $35-$100 to file a claim. Bring your photos and evidence, show them to the judge, and he will make a decision. Worst case is that you lose the filing fee. Best case is that you get your car fixed and your filing fee back, maybe even lost wages if you lose work time.

You'll need all your photos, dates times and any info about the incident; you'll also need either receipts for the broken equipment or verifiable pricing for the replacement equipment, and an estimate for labor by a licensed shop in the area. The judge must have proof of loss to award a compensation.

[ACUDANUT]

 Well said. 

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Indygenerallee is right, a lawyer will cost you more than you get back.

So the answer is, go to the courthouse and file on your own behalf. It will cost something like $35-$100 to file a claim. Bring your photos and evidence, show them to the judge, and he will make a decision. Worst case is that you lose the filing fee. Best case is that you get your car fixed and your filing fee back, maybe even lost wages if you lose work time.

You'll need all your photos, dates times and any info about the incident; you'll also need either receipts for the broken equipment or verifiable pricing for the replacement equipment, and an estimate for labor by a licensed shop in the area. The judge must have proof of loss to award a compensation.

I'm a lawyer, and I don't think I agree with this. Many lawyers will charge you out the nose, and by the hour, but you're going to lose if you try to do it on your own. You won't be arguing against amateurs here. What I would do is find a lawyer who does "alternative fee arrangements," i.e. they don't charge by the hour. Pay a flat fee for your case, and you'll have a perfectly predictable expense as well as a fair shot at winning.

[Brass]

I would also try to find out if there is a minimum clearance required in your area, what it is, and whether the areas of impact are lower than that.  Hopefully not.  It doesn't matter whether you have headers or manifolds.  Modifying your car is legal - headers are legal.  But I wouldn't even go there. Just stick to the facts; your car has "X" amount of clearance as required by law but their manhole ripped it apart anyway.  They're not even saying the damage didn't happen from their manhole cover – they're saying your car was too low.  Show them it's not.

[Darkman]

He finally contacted me by email, and I sent him my description and photos. This was his reply:

Thank you for sending me the pictures. The pictures you first sent accurately represent the difference in grade between the roadway and top elevation of the manhole - about an inch. The picture you sent showing the manhole flush with the toplift of asphalt isn't representative. The top lift of asphalt we placed was about two inches. In our initial adjustment of the manhole we aim for the manhole to be about one inch above the base course of asphalt (this was actually ground out asphalt but for these purposes I am calling it the base course). Then, immediately before we pave the top lift we put a 1"" paving ring on the manhole to raise it an inch higher so when we pave a 2" thick top lift it is all flush. But that one inch raise to two inches happened when the lane was closed so the last picture you sent isn't representative although I can understand why someone who didn't know our sequence might think it was.
I know it hard to tell the elevation difference from pictures and even tough to measure with a tape measure (we tried) but the math on what we did correlates with your pictures. I believe when you had your troubles it was about one inch. I could be slightly off but that is what I am seeing. We also sloped it up with temporary asphalt to decrease the impact of the bump we are allowed to have.
It is a construction zone and things can't be perfect as we transition from old to new. We are doing everything we can to get this job done as quickly as possible to lesson inconvenience.
I couldn't tell from the angles of your pictures if your vehicle is a low riding vehicle, but I did observe and videotape several cars driving over the same manhole. A couple of them on video and many others we only observed were lower riding cars (Accord types) and they did not have any trouble. While I couldn't tell from the angles of your pictures I suspect that either your vehicle rides lower then the typical low riding car or you had some loose parts nearly dragging already that you may not have been aware of. I'm speculating I don't know.
I'm denying your claim. I could be wrong though so if you still feel we are responsible after considering the above you have the right to file a claim with our insurance company (and of course go beyond that if you don't agree with their decision) . They are more experienced in this type of thing then I am so I think that between your pictures, my pictures, and my video they will have plenty of information to make a fair decision.  Let me know and I will get you in contact with them.
I am sorry this happened and understand your frustration, but from my investigation don't think we are responsible.
Sincerely,
XXX XXXXXX

The manhole now sits flush with the rest of the asphalt road, excluding the last lane that hasn't been paved over(the last lane being the closest one in the photos). You can clearly see how it is sitting 4-6 inches above the unfinished lane.

This is a very polite way of saying they are not at fault. Every contractor will try and cover their butts. At least this was done politely. They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try to fight it. If you have photos with measurements, then there is no arguement. I still think you have a case.

[FastbackJon]

I would get some pictures with a tape measure if you haven't already. If it's been paved at least get the height difference from the old road to the top of the new one.

It's not all bad if you don't hire an attorney and you have all your facts and ducks in a row. I went up against one on a speeding ticket and got the radar reading thrown out after I did my homework on the radar unit and how to use it and not use it, and after questioning the officer on how he used it.

[69rtse4spd]

Good luck with your case, the only silver lining is that you didn't puncture your oil pan or trans. pan.

[Aussie R/T]

Think you should add if a speed reduction was in place also this could also contribute to the ride height of the Vehicle.The ride height of the Vehicle would be affected by the speed and condition of the road by the suspension movement.In Auss all construction work is speed reduced to a minimum 60 k and 40k so this sort of thing doesn't happen.Good Luck

[elacruze]

Indygenerallee is right, a lawyer will cost you more than you get back.

So the answer is, go to the courthouse and file on your own behalf. It will cost something like $35-$100 to file a claim. Bring your photos and evidence, show them to the judge, and he will make a decision. Worst case is that you lose the filing fee. Best case is that you get your car fixed and your filing fee back, maybe even lost wages if you lose work time.

You'll need all your photos, dates times and any info about the incident; you'll also need either receipts for the broken equipment or verifiable pricing for the replacement equipment, and an estimate for labor by a licensed shop in the area. The judge must have proof of loss to award a compensation.

I'm a lawyer, and I don't think I agree with this. Many lawyers will charge you out the nose, and by the hour, but you're going to lose if you try to do it on your own. You won't be arguing against amateurs here. What I would do is find a lawyer who does "alternative fee arrangements," i.e. they don't charge by the hour. Pay a flat fee for your case, and you'll have a perfectly predictable expense as well as a fair shot at winning.

Please don't take offense, but that's exactly the response I'd expect from a lawyer. My personal experience with acting as my own attorney is 4/5 with #5 still unsettled. The key to winning in court is simple; Be Right and be able to prove it.

Don't take that as a pooh-pooh to your suggestion, hiring a lawyer is always valid but not necessarily economical, especially when we're talking a few hundred to a grand or so in award.