Tony's Daytona discussion

[hemi68charger]

My buddy, who bumps elbows with Galen finished a restoration on a '70 Charger R/T SE that had a warranty block in it.  By dropping the drivetrain ala K frame it was kinda neat seeing the block was still bare & what parts were painted orange.  The dealership performing the warranty work never repainted anything, just did the bare, minimum work.

Anyhoots, Tom said Galen told him that the dealerships were to stamp the VIN on the new warranty motors.   
I wonder how often we've seen this nowadays & hollered foul on the seller?

One of my best friends has a '70 Superbee. The block that's in it isn't stamped and it is a warranty block. Teddy has the original warranty blue tag that was attached to one of the fender tag screws. I can't remember that exact jargon, but paraphrasing it, it states something to the effect of "This tag is for a warranty block" and it has either the VIN or sequence number stamped on it.....

...
This fender tag had a tig welder used to repair it Troy!  Everyone knows how thin and flimsy the tags are even when new and in pristine shape.  Can you imagine what the heat from a tig welder would do to metal that was as rotted as this thing was?... 

I can imagine...

[706pkvert]

Dave,

I wouldn't expect a talentless prick to understand how I was able to restore the tag..there were multiple steps involved and it was very time consuming......Like I said in another thread. The thought of a shop like mine having to justify its restoration efforts to the likes of you in laughable at best.

The rear floor sections were the only panels requiring replacement. Which was done with good used originals. After the car was media blasted, several small isolated areas that were pinholed were repaired.

You try to protest the "truth" but yet you don't post ALL the pics you have that show how solid the car actually was. You only post the pics of the rusted area to suit your skewed agenda.

I am sorry to all the members of this forum that have been put through this nausiating garbage. Anyone that has one ounce of common sense can see what Dave is here to do. Hasn't anyone noticed that he has no interest in wing cars? He is only here to start trouble, pound his chest or promote his products??!!

Feel free to continue with you're charade of bullsh*t. You have taken up too much of my valuable time already this weekend. I'll go back to turning out OE Gold winning restorations one after the next and you can go back to making stickers.....lol..

[pettybird]

Holy shit I thought you were being a smart ass about fixing the tag...you were being serious??

[hemi68charger]

... Hasn't anyone noticed that he has no interest in wing cars? He is only here to start trouble, pound his chest or promote his products??!!

Feel free to continue with you're charade of bullsh*t. You have taken up too much of my valuable time already this weekend. I'll go back to turning out OE Gold winning restorations one after the next and you can go back to making stickers.....lol..

Oh man !!! Dave, so you were lying to me when you told me I have a nice Daytona?   

Lordy, everyone has their nitch. Stickers? I don't know you 706pkvert, but talk about being demeaning.... Stickers? That is about the most belittling statement I've heard thus far. Dave, and his "stickers", have probably had more of an impact and utility to the Mopar hobby than all the OE Gold Restorations combined......

[hemi68charger]

Holy shit I thought you were being a smart ass about fixing the tag...you were being serious??

In the spirit of "lists", I'd like to see pictures of the restoration process for that fender tag.. It'll be a learning experience for sure............

[resq302]

Pettybird,

I highly doubt he was being serious with fixing the fender tag.  The time taken to restore,reshape,restamp, re.....whatever, would be more in labor rate than what the actual restoration would potentially cost.  As I mentioned earlier, where he failed to reply to me, how would one go about restoring a letter that is completely rotted away and missing?  One would need to have a reversed stamping die for that letter which is something that is VERY uncommon.  There is only two applications  (that I am aware of) for stamping reversed letters/numbers and one involves a VIN Tag (which reproducing them is illegal!) and the other would be for the fender tag.

[resq302]

Holy shit I thought you were being a smart ass about fixing the tag...you were being serious??

In the spirit of "lists", I'd like to see pictures of the restoration process for that fender tag.. It'll be a learning experience for sure............

Troy,

I would too!  Especially interested how the fiberglass reinforced stuff held up to the bend where all Hamtramck cars had the fender tag bent upwards so paint could get under / behind it.  Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't fiberglass crack and break with that sharp of a bend?

[moparstuart]

Pettybird,

I highly doubt he was being serious with fixing the fender tag.  The time taken to restore,reshape,restamp, re.....whatever, would be more in labor rate than what the actual restoration would potentially cost.  As I mentioned earlier, where he failed to reply to me, how would one go about restoring a letter that is completely rotted away and missing?  One would need to have a reversed stamping die for that letter which is something that is VERY uncommon.  There is only two applications  (that I am aware of) for stamping reversed letters/numbers and one involves a VIN Tag (which reproducing them is illegal!) and the other would be for the fender tag.

   It never happened  NO way as you said it would cost more then the whole resto and still look like a POS 

[ECS]

  It never happened  NO way as you said it would cost more then the whole resto and still look like a POS  

Guys.....what do you expect from a pathological lair?  He can't even get his facts straight as it relates to the hierarchy of who has won what.  I have entered 3 cars in the OE event.  Each car received Gold, each car set a new record and each car won Best of Show.  The resume for his 3 cars consists of a Silver, a Gold & Best of Show and then he went BACKWARDS the following year in points total and no Best of Show with the white Daytona!  Boy....I'm really jealous!  Ask him all of the parts/advice he has solicited from me over the years and what I have ever asked of him?  Nothing!    

The mentally challenged dork claims that I didn't post "all" of the pictures of the Daytona to facilitate MY agenda.  It was me that posted the additional pictures that HE & TONY left out which actually DID provide "ALL" of the pictures.  They tried to hide "ALL" of the pictures.  They were only posting the photos they felt would facilitate their lies about the car being "rust free".  I guess that EVERY publication just happened to coincidently print the same "rust free" lie!  Whose agenda was actually being manipulated?

[pettybird]

I wouldn't expect a talentless prick to understand how I was able to restore the tag..there were multiple steps involved and it was very time consuming......Like I said in another thread.

The first time he mentioned that he restored the tag I laughed, but this makes it sound like he's not kidding.  Say it ain't so, Mike!

[ECS]

I wouldn't expect a talentless prick to understand how I was able to restore the tag..there were multiple steps involved and it was very time consuming......Like I said in another thread.

Well lets see some pictures documenting those steps Mr. Talent.  A "professional shop" such as yours, DEFINITELY would have documented even a small portion of such a consuming undertaking......right?

(My condolences about your work going backwards with the white Daytona and having to rely on lies from your crooked editor to make up the difference.)

[resq302]

Dave,

I wouldn't expect a talentless prick to understand how I was able to restore the tag..there were multiple steps involved and it was very time consuming......Like I said in another thread. The thought of a shop like mine having to justify its restoration efforts to the likes of you in laughable at best.

I guess a bunch of us fall into the "talentless pricks" then since more than one of us find it difficult to restore something that which is so far gone!

[ECS]

I guess a bunch of us fall into the "talentless pricks" then since more than one of us find it difficult to restore something that which is so far gone!

Neither did he Brian!

[ECS]

"talentless prick"

Keep in mind you don't really know who you are replying to Brian.  The second word in your quote is a staple phrase used by a good friend of tony's.  If these morons were anymore transparent & obvious than who they really are, you could refer to them as Casper the Ghost.

[arrow]

70 6pkvert, your losing more credability every time you open your mouth

[ECS]

Tony's Daytona had rust through on the rear floor pans only.....

So did you show up at the Nationals with the holes still in the doors Mike?  Did they not need to be repair as your commentary would suggest?  Since you didn't have any rust to "focus your attention on" did the Judges just overlook the hole shown below?  Or are the doors ALSO not considered part of the "Body" of a vehicle?  Pretty soon Mike, you'll have completely changed the definition for what the Hobby considers a Car!



 

[resq302]

Cmon Dave.  Since you have "no interest in wing cars"  you would know that hole is a very specific rust hole designed by Chrysler to reduce air pressure inside the cabin to make the Daytona more aerodynamic.  The same goes for the turn signal fluid which was eliminated on Daytonas and Superbirds. 

[resq302]

70 6pkvert, your losing more credability every time you open your mouth

shame this emoticon smiley didnt post.

http://s752.photobucket.com/user/mqnina/media/emoticons/Emoticon_digging-1.gif.html?sort=3&o=19

[ECS]

Cmon Dave.  Since you have "no interest in wing cars"  you would know that hole is a very specific rust hole designed by Chrysler to reduce air pressure inside the cabin to make the Daytona more aerodynamic.  The same goes for the turn signal fluid which was eliminated on Daytonas and Superbirds. 

Tony's Daytona had rust through on the rear floor pans only.....

Just to make sure I understood the quote, did he or did he not state that the "ONLY" rust was on the floor pans?  Of course their original position was that rust was "virtually non- existent" on the vehicle.  Kind of reminds me of his other magazine quote where he used "NADA" to describe the reproduction parts used in his last project.  I presume that "NADA" in Spanish translates to "MANY" in English! 

[ECS]

The rear floor sections were the only panels requiring replacement. Which was done with good used originals. After the car was media blasted, several small isolated areas that were pinholed were repaired.

Could you repeat that again Ste.....uh.....I mean Mike!  I was having some trouble understanding your definition of "pinholed". 

[resq302]

The rear floor sections were the only panels requiring replacement. Which was done with good used originals. After the car was media blasted, several small isolated areas that were pinholed were repaired.

Could you repeat that again Ste.....uh.....I mean Mike!  I was having some trouble understanding your definition of "pinholed". 

It absolutely baffles me as to why someone would go to these great lengths to lie, deceive, twist, and fabricate stories about a vehicle?       Why not just post the truth?

[Dr V]

The rear floor sections were the only panels requiring replacement. Which was done with good used originals. After the car was media blasted, several small isolated areas that were pinholed were repaired.

Could you repeat that again Ste.....uh.....I mean Mike!  I was having some trouble understanding your definition of "pinholed".  

It absolutely baffles me as to why someone would go to these great lengths to lie, deceive, twist, and fabricate stories about a vehicle?      Why not just post the truth?

MY thoughts exactly. After reading all of this discussion I cant quite grasp the importance either.  I have a couple cars that have had rust repair, and I have an original 6 pack bird thats never even been touched or painted.  They are all just as important to me.  But I dont need to embelish their importance to have people think more highly of me.  Thats what this  Daytona story is sounding like to me.   To each his own, maybe im just more modest ...

[DAY CLONA]

It absolutely baffles me as to why someone would go to these great lengths to lie, deceive, twist, and fabricate stories about a vehicle?      Why not just post the truth?
[/quote]

MY thoughts exactly. After reading all of this discussion I cant quite grasp the importance either.  I have a couple cars that have had rust repair, and I have an original 6 pack bird thats never even been touched or painted.  They are all just as important to me.  But I dont need to embelish their importance to have people think more highly of me.  Thats what this  Daytona story is sounding like to me.   To each his own, maybe im just more modest ...
[/quote]





It falls into the human category of what I have/possess is special, some folks whether consciously, or sub-consciously  want to promote themselves and/or their possessions as unique, with themselves being the sole proprietor of such, we're all guilty of it to some extent, however, in this case, IMHO...being that this car was going to be an OEM Gold candidate, the individuals involved probably didn't want areas of repair/replacement scrutinized, had they been made public before the vehicle was judged....


And on a "comical" note regarding the Tig welded/fiberglassed/JB Weld repro of the fender tag....how many points were deducted for that "non-original" component ....and lastly, Web/forum etiquette regarding such Biblical claims of fender tag restoration never seen before in the annuals of Moparkind...    pics, or it NEVER happened



Mike

[ECS]

....the individuals involved probably didn't want areas of repair/replacement scrutinized, had they been made public before the vehicle was judged....

And on a "comical" note regarding the Tig welded/fiberglassed/JB Weld repro of the fender tag....how many points were deducted for that "non-original" component ....and lastly, Web/forum etiquette regarding such Biblical claims of fender tag restoration never seen before in the annuals of Moparkind...    pics, or it NEVER happened

Mike

You are closer to the truth than you could ever imagine Mike.  These guys have been kind to my face for years while cutting me down behind my back.  They have called the Magazines that covered my cars (for the past nine years) to gossip, lie and do anything possible to tear me down.  Tony and his "secret" crony despise me for apparently making their restorations "obsolete".  They blamed my "new found" methods and efforts as the reason they ended up wasting so much time & money for having their cars restored "wrong".   This is a moronic way of deflecting responsibility but it apparently has made them extremely upset.  They either had to accept a second rate restoration or tear it apart to have it restored again.  This was admitted to me by one of the characters involved, in front of both Dave Stuart and Tom Barcroft, over dinner during one of their visits.  

They DESPERATELY wanted to beat the OE record of the Valiant and the only way they thought they could do it was to offer up a vehicle that was in a similar starting condition of my car.  The problem was, they knew there was NO WAY that their rusted out Daytona could trump an all original bodied vehicle in an OE competition.  So they lied and tried to make it look as if their vehicle started out just as nice/original as the Valiant, prior to it being restored!  They even enlisted their crooked, crony editor to help them with the scam.  They never expected that Gene's Daytona would be the standout/Best of Show car at the 2012 Nationals and that must have REALLY threw a wrench in their spokes.  Those who claimed to be my Friends ending up nothing more than backbiting, two faced lairs.  By the resounding responses that many of you have sent to me via private email (copying their lies) you too know them for what they really are.  It's a pitiful situation but ALL true!    

[Davtona]

What I am suggesting would allow people to have the best of both worlds. ECS would be able to freely make reproduction buildsheets for display/novelty use only but a public list of the repros should be available to keep the unscrupulous folks in check and prevent possible fraud down the line.

This all came about because fraud may have already happened with one of his sheets! He made a display sheet for one of my customers car who had misplaced his original. 2 new owners later, the car is on ebay with a picture of the repro sheet!

A list disclosing the repro sheets he's already made would most certainly help negate any thoughts of trying to "fake" anything!!

This is a positive thing, we just need to get ECS on board. This would be for the good of the hobby and help defend the value a true original sheet adds to a vehicle.

You can't really be serious here can you?    I usually try to stay out of disputes like this but this particular post caught my eye. Why does someone need a display/reproduction build sheet? You either have your original or you don't. If the mice ate it or it dissolved away it's gone. Deal with it. I personally do not have sheets for all of my cars. That's the way it is and I accept it. If you don't have your original how do you know what to put on your repop sheet for codes. Do we just make em up??? Great we'll have cars everywhere with made up codes on fake sheets. And we'll have a debate like this going on every other week. Oh wait we will have a list somewhere that will tell me if it's a fake or not. If I'm in the click and know about the list and who has it. Is that build sheet the one on the list or no guess what I remembered where I put my original years ago. What did you think was going to happen to the Challenger's display build sheet? Is the current seller of the Challenger on Ebay at fault? Does he even know it's a fake or did the previous owner? Whose story turned the fake sheet into the original? Whose stands to lose money here? Not you I bet. What's the next evolution of your bright idea here? Restamped blocks and rebodied Hemi cars. Where do we stop this madness? Oh don't worry we will have a list of what's real and what's not. Like I eluded to at the start of my post this has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a while. Tell me you aren't serious. This is NOT a positive thing.