Tony's Daytona discussion

[TONY]

Hi all

DarrlyG  is one of the many alias's of dave walden.
he has been doing anything in his power to cutdown my daytona in any way
i believe this is due to his hatred towards the restorer of my car, mike mancini, who he dislikes,
because mike did a great restoration on the blue duster that in daves opinion scored too high and took away some of his glory on the resotration he did on his valiant

i have pictures of the car coming out of the barrn it was stored in since 1972
the body wasnt rusted at all,
the only rot on the car was due to some mouse houses that were on top of the engine over to the inner fenderwell, and on some areas of the interior floor pan that were replaced with sections of original floors

dave takes great pleasure in starting trouble and therefore getting thrown off of internet boards.

he finally choose to sponsor an obscure board so he could spew his bs for everyone to ooh and aah about and give him the pat on the back that he needs so badly

what he says has no truth to it and his only reason for joining this board is to try and knock my car for  fear that it may do too well in judging. he can try to spin this 100 different ways, but what i listed is his motive


im sorry about this thread but this is what he does, starts trouble

[TONY]

i have pictures of the car prior to disassembly, and pictures of how + when it was found

he'll have staged and rehearsed conversations


isnt it funny how he just admitted that darylg is his alias,

and does anyone wonder why he has suddenly become the go to person with info on daytonas, especially just prior to the nationals judging

he still doesnt realize that the cars dont compete against oneanother at the nationals, they are just judged by a pointsheet,

which of course dave has gone on a major campaign knocking the oe judging based on his inaccurate assumptions of the blue duster that was judged last year,  and the judging system to the extent of knocking the oe judging system in his ads

[ECS]

isnt it funny how he just admitted that darylg is his alias,

Wake up Tony!  I only know these people.  I "hate" no one.  I just don't care for liars and scammers!    

[moparstuart]

IN BEFORE THE 

[ECS]

I also have a history of owners of the car and have recently spoken with the owner of st ann dodge about the car and has given me with original dealer stickers, postcards, dealer id stuff. Etc

Your last email telling me "F... You" has crossed the line.  You want the truth for everyone to see?  Explain the "real" paperwork you had me make with the changes to this "real car".  Does this refresh your memory?

[TONY]

hi dave

thanks for posting 

i do still have those 2 copies along with the 2 tattered originals

ill get to the safe later tonite or tommorow and post pics of my 2 tattered originals and the 2 copies you made for me for display purposes

thank you

tony

ps  if anyone cant tell by now, dave is showing his true motive,
i have no problem with any of this as there is nothing to hide from,

ill say it again, yes my car had some floor rot,
yes the data tag was rusty but not one code was missing or illedgible,
yes i had copies of my buildsheet made for display purposes as i wouldnt want to bring the originals out in public

i guess i would have been better off starting with a survivor like malcoms or mcculys daytonas

[706pkvert]

Dave Walden has been on a crusade against the mopar nationals, me, my shop, the cars I restore ever since he found out the results of a 70 Duster that I restored and brought to the Nationals last year.
Before the nationals we were pretty friendly. After he found out the Dusters score he went ballistic. He demanded I send him pictures of the car so that he could judge it for himself. When I declined to do that, I became his instant enemy and was labeled a liar and all sorts of negative terms.
He then focused on attacking the car and the Mopar Nats judges in which he told me i was simply "collateral damage".
He has routinely harassed me and my customers for almost a year now. It got so bad months ago I had to hire a lawyer to send him a letter not to contact me any longer.
He has left me harassing phone messages, countless emails and constant attempts to character assassinate me through the internet boards all because of a car's score. He even emails my customers with all sorts of slanderous and untrue remarks about me.
He is convinced there is some kind of higher plot against him in the mopar hobby and the ring leaders are the mopar nationals judges and other individuals in the hobby.
This bogus story about Tony's car he is now trying to pass around is his next plot to try and cut me down as well as hurt Tony in some way.
This is my hobby, my business and my livelihood.
Dave, please read this next line carefully: AGAIN,  DO NOT CONTACT ME EVER AGAIN, STOP HARRASSING ME AND MY CUSTOMERS. WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!!!
And please....get some help.

[ECS]

Dave Walden has been on a crusade against the mopar nationals, me, my shop, the cars I restore ever since he found out the results of a 70 Duster that I restored and brought to the Nationals last year.
Before the nationals we were pretty friendly. After he found out the Dusters score he went ballistic. He demanded I send him pictures of the car so that he could judge it for himself. When I declined to do that, I became his instant enemy and was labeled a liar and all sorts of negative terms.
He then focused on attacking the car and the Mopar Nats judges in which he told me i was simply "collateral damage".
He has routinely harassed me and my customers for almost a year now. It got so bad months ago I had to hire a lawyer to send him a letter not to contact me any longer.
He has left me harassing phone messages, countless emails and constant attempts to character assassinate me through the internet boards all because of a car's score. He even emails my customers with all sorts of slanderous and untrue remarks about me.
He is convinced there is some kind of higher plot against him in the mopar hobby and the ring leaders are the mopar nationals judges and other individuals in the hobby.
This bogus story about Tony's car he is now trying to pass around is his next plot to try and cut me down as well as hurt Tony in some way.
This is my hobby, my business and my livelihood.
Dave, please read this next line carefully: AGAIN,  DO NOT CONTACT ME EVER AGAIN, STOP HARRASSING ME AND MY CUSTOMERS. WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!!!
And please....get some help.

You are an absolute liar and will definitely have the chance to defend your accusations!

Dave Walden

[hemigeno]

Tony, Mike & Dave -  There's pretty much one set rule around here... no personal attacks.  Mike, your last post is not what I'd like to see happen on this board to be honest.  You and I did not have the conversation that Tony and I had this afternoon, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Our purpose as Moderators is not to censor material being posted, nor do we have a responsibility to fact-check everything.  If a statement is made that can be refuted with facts, do so.  That helps all of us understand the situation better and make informed decisions.  

This is not a situation I can control nor should I interject myself into the equation... however a couple of things are evident:
>  Tony's Daytona is legit, and the XS vs. XX on the title/registration is a common trait with many if not all Daytonas
>  Whether a car was originally sold with a wing and nosecone is more a function of its unique history and heritage rather than a question of its pedigree... now it may be important if the car is represented as a "survivor" (I don't like using that term, but don't know what else to use at the moment) - and I'm not saying that's the case, but it's the only instance I can think of where knowing that the original nose/wing was discarded or not makes any real difference.
>  Debate about Dave's opinion of the 'Nats judging program (past or present) isn't germane to this thread's topic of wing cars converted for sale.  It seems more like an attack on the messenger.  If there is a problem with the information that Darryl (DarrlyG) or Dave has presented, then stick to that particular debate.

[Steve P.]

Well said and I agree Geno.

[706pkvert]

Dave,
Considering I have saved all emails to/from you & I, you & tony, you & Keith Rohm and the several phone messages you left on my cell and copy & pasted and saved all threads you have ever posted on regarding me or the duster, the truth is documented.

Gene,

I am sorry to be part of any trouble on the board. I won't be talking about this anymore.

[ECS]

Dave,
Considering I have saved all emails to/from you & I, you & tony, you & Keith Rohm and the several phone messages you left on my cell and copy & pasted and saved all threads you have ever posted on regarding me or the duster, the truth is documented.

By all means post them for the World to see!!  Gene, sorry for this mess.  These guys are absolute liars and delusional.  I never received anything from an attorney nor have I ever harassed anyone or their Customers.  Admittedly, we BOTH traded and sent combative emails to one another. The fact is that I was "Friends" with these guys but they stabbed me in the back after I helped them to reach their goals.  I manufactured custom decals for them and provided other assistance while they were criticizing me behind my back on the forums under THEIR aliases.  (How are you doing BEAST?)  Anyone who knows me realizes I would give you the shirt off my back if you asked for it.  I not only helped Mike Mancini with parts for the Duster he restored, I also told him I would HELP him anyway I could to beat the record we set in 2010!  I provided his NOS Tires, Custom Decals, Engine Card, Window Sticker, Traveler Sheet, NOS Wheel Weights, NOS Date Coded Washer Pump, Complete Glass Set, NOS Transmission Cover Plate, Restored Date Coded Voltage Regulator and a complete Set of Factory Exact Decals.  THAT IS HARDLY THE ACTIONS OF SOMEONE TRYING TO IMPEDE THE EFFORTS OF A "FRIEND".  So what "Thanks" do I get?    After the show, Mike Mancini lied to the Judges and others by saying he didn't use my Glass because is was so Bad "he could scratch it with his fingernail."  He used my glass, lied and said it was "junk" and then told the Judges it was actually original.  That car was loaded with reproduction parts!  What some people won't stoop to in order to win.  He has also tried to spin his restoration and solicit business by lying and telling people (on GM websites) that my Valiant was a Survivor that was entered in OE while HIS restoration was a complete restoration of a well used vehicle!  (Below is a link that illustrates that fact.)  It is amazing how a little success and notoriety will cause some people to lie and cheat!  To anyone who enters OE.....PLEASE go beat our score....I will even assist you if you need the help!

Dave Walden

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/481867/1970_Plymouth_Duster_OE_Gold_C#Post481867  

[hemigeno]

I think this particular vein of discussion has run its course.  I'll pull out the extraneous material and separate it from the original topic, just because it's a fascinating point of wing car history (to me, anyway).

[Aero426]

You are correct about the "original paperwork" however.  I certainly was not provided with the "original" they claim to have had.  I was given a hand written sheet to make the Build-sheets that they requested for the car.  Lets see......they had the original, wanted 2 copies but submitted a hand written example for me to use as a format.  I see no contradiction in that scenario....do you?      

The mention of ECS produced reproduction broadcast sheets came up in June.   Your customer said he had an original build sheet, in tattered condition, but you did not have it in hand.   Apparently you went ahead and created the reproduction sheets some time ago.   For reasons unknown to us, last June you proceeded to throw your CUSTOMER under the bus by posting his private written communications to you and a copy of his build sheet on this board.   

When you shared that information, that was a WOW moment about how you conduct business.    It suggests that whether I want an ECS window sticker or a door VIN decal, that my car information (or anything else I tell you) may not be treated as confidential. 

[Aero426]

For the sake of clarity, here is a photo of all the broadcast sheets for 390018 posted with permission.   The top two sheets are the originals.   The bottom two are the newly created exact reproductions for car show display purposes.   I would put this in "Tony's Daytona" discussion, but that thread is locked.   Perhaps it can be unlocked and relevant posts be moved there. 

[hemigeno]

relevant posts be moved there. 

[ECS]

It suggests that whether I want an ECS window sticker or a door VIN decal, that my car information (or anything else I tell you) may not be treated as confidential.

No need to speculate over apples & oranges!  We don't sell Broadcast Sheets to the public so there are no rules concerning their "confidentiality" as with our staple products.  

Nice try on the Fake Copies that Tony gave to you.  Look at the FAKE one on the left.  (You can't tell what the one on the right is.  All the pertinent information is conveniently torn or stained away.)  The one on the left is one that I made for him!  I gave him at least 4 copies and this is his pathetic attempt to lie to you people.  Here is how you can tell.  The one on the left is "suppose" to be the one that was taped to his glove box.  If it was the Build Sheet that was taped to the  glove box, the only things that would be circled would be areas specific to the building of the dash!!  They circled "console or Aux/Seat" listed on line 6.  That information box has NOTHING to do with the dash assembly!  If they say the circle is designating the box to the right or left of it they are still wrong.  The box to the left signifies the "brakes" and the one to the right signifies the "armrest."  NONE of those items have ANYTHING to do with the dash assembly and should not be circled.  What an amateur mistake!

Also notice how the characters are lined up exactly like the ones that I made for him.  It would be IMPOSSIBLE that I just happened to place the letters EXACTLY like the one on the left because he NEVER sent an original for me to format from!  When I made them, I didn't know exactly how to word the line that says 17 SPECIAL ORDER.  I had never seen or made another Daytona Build Sheet so I spaced the letters to a default that was used on Tran Am cars.  Since he said they were using them for "novelty" purposes, I never told him about the error because I figured it didn't matter.  

Upon documenting three "real" Daytona Build Sheets (after I made Tony's) I realized the spacing I did was wrong.  The wording 17 SPECIAL ORDER should be spaced almost three quarters of the way, across the bottom row of boxes.   NOTICE HOW HIS "SUPPOSEDLY" ORIGINAL ONE'S LETTERING IS EXACTLY IN THE SAME POSITION  AND SPACING AS MINE.   (So are all of the other characters that you can read and make out.)  What a coincidence!  His "original" exhibits the same mistake and character positioning that I made on his copies.  He had originally sent me a copy that had letters whited out and numbers hand written in their place.  I GUARANTEE the one on the left is one of mine trying to be passed off as an original!  How pathetic!  He will go to ANY means to fake his fabricated agenda.  Take the picture, save it as a document and blow it up so you all can see what I am talking about.  If my re-posted one is not clear, go to Tony's "locked" thread and save that picture.  Unbelievable!

   

[held1823]

to keep others up to speed on what dave is referring to about the spacing, here is a close up view of mine. i have no idea if the other 502 are like this one.

once dave finishes convicting himself of being an accessory to fraud, perhaps we will return to mr. weidner's accounting of the sheet metal modifications. that would be the interest that most of us have in relation to this thread.

[ECS]

to keep others up to speed on what dave is referring to about the spacing, here is a close up view of mine. i have no idea if the other 502 are like this one.

once dave finishes convicting himself of being an accessory to fraud, perhaps we will return to mr. weidner's accounting of the sheet metal modifications. that would be the interest that most of us have in relation to this thread.

Fraud?  Are you mentally retarded?  Is this your way of trying to cover and support his lies?  He is BUSTED!!  PERIOD!  

I make ALL kinds of items UNDER LICENSING for Chrysler.  What someone decides to do with them is their own prerogative.  We are also making Exhaust Systems (under licensing) for Chrysler.  If some lying thug uses an H Pipe on to beat someone over the head, is that also my fault?  I guess the local Sporting Goods store should be considered an accomplice to battery if a gang member uses one of their baseball bats as a weapon of choice.  Once again, pure Genius!

(Oh....I almost forgot....thanks for providing the fourth "original" example that illustrates the correct spacing for an original Daytona.  I'm sure Tony also thanks you!)  

[JB400]

They convict the tabacco, alcohol, firearm, and pharmaceutical  industry for the same thing.  So why not?

[ECS]

They convict the tabacco, alcohol, firearm, and pharmaceutical  industry for the same thing.  So why not?

Come and get me!  A Build Sheet is not a registered/registration document.  The hobby made them "the holy grail" of documentation and not the DOT or DMV.  It was nothing more than trash after it served the purpose of helping to assemble the car.

[held1823]

to keep others up to speed on what dave is referring to about the spacing, here is a close up view of mine. i have no idea if the other 502 are like this one.

once dave finishes convicting himself of being an accessory to fraud, perhaps we will return to mr. weidner's accounting of the sheet metal modifications. that would be the interest that most of us have in relation to this thread.

Fraud?  Are you mentally retarded?  Is this your way of trying to cover and support his lies?  He is BUSTED!!  PERIOD!  

I make ALL kinds of items UNDER LICENSING for Chrysler.  

i'm not covering for or supporting anyone. i don't know tony, and have never seen the car. my only interest in this debacle is the claim that the car was sold new, without its aero parts.  

as for your licensing, shouldn't that require you to know what you are printing, before printing it? one area in which a build sheet affects a car is its perceived value, which is partially based on the documentation available with the car. you damn well should be 100% certain that what you are reproducing is on the up and up. if you are guessing at font spacing, or filling in numbers based on what you described as a "whited out and altered" original, then yes, you help perpetuate fraud.

as for providing you a fourth example of an original build sheet (no need for quotation marks, i removed the sheet from the daytona that has been sitting here since it was brand new), you're welcome. would you like a copy of the entire sheet? i am all about the accurate history of these cars, and since you profit from reproducing documentation, i'd prefer that you get it right.

[TONY]

here are 2 daytona sheets with the  " 17 special order " ending under the #6 block above, not past block 9

looks like it was done different ways

maybe he'll say he made 20 sheets for me next

[richRTSE]

I just did a quick google search    on daytona buildsheets and found 3 previously posted sheets... 2 with the wide spacing and one more with the close spacing.....the hard to read photo copy looks like XX29L9B356510...was posted by Dave (nascarXX) in 2006...maybe its an early/late variation?

[held1823]

the bottom one, is mine