Superbirds converted back to Road runners when new.

[Ghoste]

A lot of old timer "told me so" evidence.  I believe it happened but still think it was uncommon and in the case of the Daytona's extremely rare if at all.  I also wonder if some of the conversions that did happen actually took place when the car was used and the supercar phenomenon was winding down? n By 1972 high performance was a tough sell everywhere and if a 70 Superbird wefre to be traded in that year how long would it languish then?

[Cooter]

No pics, so I guess it didn't happen, but I personally looked at a Yellow "RoadRunner" that had bondo'd over holes in the quarters and RR front clip on it. VIN was run by a buddy there once this was discovered. Wasn't too long after that, we were discovered and told it was NOT for sale and to remove ourselves from the property.

[wingcar]

I had firsthand experience with a "converted" Superbird back in the mid or late 1970's.  It occurred in Whittier California and involved a yellow Superbird running around without a nose or rear spoiler.  I was using my Superbird as a daily driver at the time when I happened upon this yellow Road Runner one day on the way to lunch.  As I followed the Bird I noticed the rear window...it was pure Superbird, so I flagged the car down and managed to get him to stop.  Turns out he was a law enforcement officer...boy was I surprised!  Anyway I did the old "are you interested in selling" routine and when it was clear he had no interest in selling I proceeded to explain to him that his "Road Runner" was in fact a "Superbird"...he had no idea, I felt that at the time he didn't really believe me either.  He told me that he had purchased the car new and it was always a Road Runner.  The details are lost to time, and to be honest, I do remember that it wasn't easy getting details from him as he may have thought I was a flake or something.   Anyway, because of this Road Runner I believe the story of converted Superbirds.....but, having said that, I really don't think it as very wide spend as it's been reported as it would have been cheaper for a dealer to cut the price and take a loss rather than have their body shop do the conversion.   (Unless, of course they had a new front clip already on hand..And, perhaps this Superbird had been damaged in the front so if they were going to fix it with a Road Runner clip...perhaps they felt as if they might as well remove the rear spoiler...).        

[nascarxx29]

The Dressler never sold 69 daytona had XS on its statement of origin

[nascarxx29]

Tony D Daytona board intro .
Also might have been deleted of wingcars part to sell.From whats mentioned on here thats some history

HI
YES MY CAR IS A WHITE AUTO BUT ITS NOT THE ONE ON THAT LIST

MY VIN ENDS IN 390018

BTW, IS THERE ANYWAY THAT I CAN GET A COPY OF THAT LIST??

HERE IS THE CAR STORY

I BOUGHT IT ABOUT 4 YEARS AGO OR SO

IN KENTUCKY ON OR AROUND LATE 1971 IT GOT LIGHTLY DAMAGED WHERE DRIVERS DOOR MEETS THE 1/4 PANEL

THE DOOR WOULDNT CLOSE PROPERLY BECAUSE OF THAT

SO THE THEN OWNER GOT RID OF THE CAR

IT GOT SOLD TO 2 BROTHERS WHO KEPT IT IN A GARAGE SINCE 1972,

THEY ALSO HAD IT ALONG WITH A 69 Z-28 AND A PONTIAC SAFARI WAGON IN THE GARAGE,

THEY HAD TO SELL THE PROPERTY FOR SOME REASON, SOLD THE Z-28 AND THE DAYTONA CHEAP TO SOMEONE,

WHO THEN SOLD THE DAYTONA TO A CUSTOMER/FRIEND OF MINE FOR GOOD AMOUNT OF $$ AT THE TIME,

AND I BOUGHT IT FROM HIM BECAUSE I REALLY LIKED THE COLOR COMBO  WHITE/RED WING /RED INT,  ITS A 440 AUOT CONSOLE CAR,

VERY ORIGINAL AND COMPLETE, BODY IS VERY SOLID,

THE REAR INTERIOR FLOOR HAS SOME RUST DUE TO A LARGE MOUSE HOUSE LOADED WITH MOUSE TURDS + URINE

IVE BEEN COLLECTING PARTS TO RESTORE IT, AND HOPEFULLY WILL HAVE IT RESTORED SOON

THANKS

[held1823]

welcome to the site. i look forward to the story and the debate, but hope that you don't read too much into an XS registration implying that a daytona was converted back into a regular charger r/t.

Simply removing the nose and tail does not change the fact that the VIN would still read XX (assuming it came that way and not mis VINned as an XS in the first place). No smart person would change the VIN at the DMV.

What would be the motivation for a dealer to change paperwork for an XX car to an XS? The dealer wouldn't care what the VIN was on the car as long as he sold the car. Messing with the VIN would not be worth the trouble it would cause.

are you asking me in regards to the motivation, or just expounding on my comment? i will assume the latter.

i am somewhat familiar with a daytona referenced to in my earlier post, and used it to illustrate that the XS issue with the DMV had no bearing on the matter, just in case that was the direction that DarrlyG's investigation was headed..  

[69CoronetRT]

are you asking me in regards to the motivation, or just expounding on my comment? i will assume the latter. 

You are correct.

[DAY CLONA]

.

[DAY CLONA]

..

[DAY CLONA]

...

[moparstuart]

...

[DarrlyG]

I just spoke with Ralph today and he gave alot more information on the XX(S?)29L9B390018.  It did have the nose and wing removed and thrown away and was sold by either a sales guy named Lee or Art who worked at Saint Ann Dodge.  A Woman also sold cars there but he did not think she was involved in the sale.  He is getting the last name of the sales guy who sold it.  Both guys are not alive but the person who actually threw the parts away is alive and retired from Signal Dodge.  He was transferred from the Bodyshop at Saint Ann Dodge to the Signal Dodge Dealership.  Ralph said Gene Gerber was a co-owner of Saint Ann Dodge and was involved in all sorts of switching cars such as the converting of this Daytona car.  The original engine was also supposedly trashed the third year it was in operation and a guy in Illinois still has the damaged block.  The floor pans were also completely rotted out.  He is sending me pictures of the car later tonight and I will try and figure out how to post them here.  Interesting stuff for sure.   

[moparstuart]

I just spoke with Ralph today and he gave alot more information on the XX(S?)29L9B390018.  It did have the nose and wing removed and thrown away and was sold by either a sales guy named Lee or Art who worked at Saint Ann Dodge.  A Woman also sold cars there but he did not think she was involved in the sale.  He is getting the last name of the sales guy who sold it.  Both guys are not alive but the person who actually threw the parts away is alive and retired from Signal Dodge.  He was transferred from the Bodyshop at Saint Ann Dodge to the Signal Dodge Dealership.  Ralph said Gene Gerber was a co-owner of Saint Ann Dodge and was involved in all sorts of switching cars such as the converting of this Daytona car.  The original engine was also supposedly trashed the third year it was in operation and a guy in Illinois still has the damaged block.  The floor pans were also completely rotted out.  He is sending me pictures of the car later tonight and I will try and figure out how to post them here.  Interesting stuff for sure.   

  find out about that motor block will have a partial vin stamped on we can try to track the car down 

[nascarxx29]

Interesting story.Hope to see pictures Unrelated a similar color combo white red daytona also had a hard life.My friend Bill Stechs car
.I furnished this document to him.And it cleared up alot he didnt know about his cars earlier life accounts

[TONY]

I also have pictures of the original numbers matching motor and trans prior to being removed from the car.
That can be confirmed by jack rawlings whom I bought the car from.

He can also confirm that the car was originally titled as an XS not an XX

I also have a history of owners of the car and have recently spoken with the owner of st ann dodge about the car and has given me with original dealer stickers, postcards, dealer id stuff. Etc

I also have an email from dave walden telling me the same bs story about the car that he spoke to the same  people as he listed here under his present alias

He has tried posting the same bs on moparts but has been thrown off as he has been banned for starting the same type of trouble and getting in the same arguments that he is now doing here

[ECS]

Hey Guys,
Tom Barcroft just informed me of these last couple of entries so I just wanted to make a few things perfectly clear.  If ANYONE would like to join Ralph Weidner, Darryl Gantz, Dave Stuart, Tom Barcroft and myself for Lunch next week, you are welcome to join us.  I have also invited Paul Jacobs so he can "witness" and hear the true information that these guys have been trying desperately conceal.  I doubt that I can be two people at the same time (during Lunch) but anyone is welcome to join us in Wildwood, MO next week. (lol)

Dave Walden 

[nascarxx29]

Glad that was cleared up .Seen these any completed resto pictures

http://www.amcri1.com/1955-ford-gto-rebuild/dsc08951/

[hemi68charger]

I just spoke with Ralph today and he gave alot more information on the XX(S?)29L9B390018.  It did have the nose and wing removed and thrown away and was sold by either a sales guy named Lee or Art who worked at Saint Ann Dodge.  A Woman also sold cars there but he did not think she was involved in the sale.  He is getting the last name of the sales guy who sold it.  Both guys are not alive but the person who actually threw the parts away is alive and retired from Signal Dodge.  He was transferred from the Bodyshop at Saint Ann Dodge to the Signal Dodge Dealership.  Ralph said Gene Gerber was a co-owner of Saint Ann Dodge and was involved in all sorts of switching cars such as the converting of this Daytona car.  The original engine was also supposedly trashed the third year it was in operation and a guy in Illinois still has the damaged block.  The floor pans were also completely rotted out.  He is sending me pictures of the car later tonight and I will try and figure out how to post them here.  Interesting stuff for sure.   

Cool stuff........

And Dave... Hiya !! 

Wish I could attend the "lunch and learn".......

[hemigeno]

I inadvertently moved the comments below into the other thread (primarily because of the first part of the reply in which they were inserted), but am re-posting them here for clarity's sake...

... a couple of things are evident:
>  Tony's Daytona is legit, and the XS vs. XX on the title/registration is a common trait with many if not all Daytonas
>  Whether a car was originally sold with a wing and nosecone is more a function of its unique history and heritage rather than a question of its pedigree... now it may be important if the car is represented as a "survivor" (I don't like using that term, but don't know what else to use at the moment) - and I'm not saying that's the case, but it's the only instance I can think of where knowing that the original nose/wing was discarded or not makes any real difference.
>  Debate about Dave's opinion of the 'Nats judging program (past or present) isn't germane to this thread's topic of wing cars converted for sale.  It seems more like an attack on the messenger.  If there is a problem with the information that Darryl (DarrlyG) or Dave has presented, then stick to that particular debate.

[nvrbdn]

what an interesting topic. im enjoying reading it, and cant wait to see more developement. i had infact been been around through that era (being on the side of an older fart)  and remember also being a mopar freak as a teenager that here in the midwest (st.louis metropolitan area)  a couple winged cars did infact grow roots on car lots waiting for their white knight to come save them. my first car of choice was the 68 charger in 1972. the datona and super bird didnt really grow on me. then all of a sudden these cars had vanished off the lots. i never heard or thought that they had been transformed, but in those days, who cared? cars wernt a collector piece. they were transportation and when the engines quit, junk them and get a new one. if we have know then what we know now, my mother wouldnt have thrown out all my original beatles cards and baseball cards. 

[moparstuart]

what an interesting topic. im enjoying reading it, and cant wait to see more developement. i had infact been been around through that era (being on the side of an older fart)  and remember also being a mopar freak as a teenager that here in the midwest (st.louis metropolitan area)  a couple winged cars did infact grow roots on car lots waiting for their white knight to come save them. my first car of choice was the 68 charger in 1972. the datona and super bird didnt really grow on me. then all of a sudden these cars had vanished off the lots. i never heard or thought that they had been transformed, but in those days, who cared? cars wernt a collector piece. they were transportation and when the engines quit, junk them and get a new one. if we have know then what we know now, my mother wouldnt have thrown out all my original beatles cards and baseball cards. 

wow your old   

[nvrbdn]

 

[ECS]

I inadvertently moved the comments below into the other thread (primarily because of the first part of the reply in which they were inserted), but am re-posting them here for clarity's sake...

... a couple of things are evident:
>  Tony's Daytona is legit, and the XS vs. XX on the title/registration is a common trait with many if not all Daytonas
>  Whether a car was originally sold with a wing and nosecone is more a function of its unique history and heritage rather than a question of its pedigree... now it may be important if the car is represented as a "survivor" (I don't like using that term, but don't know what else to use at the moment) - and I'm not saying that's the case, but it's the only instance I can think of where knowing that the original nose/wing was discarded or not makes any real difference.
>  Debate about Dave's opinion of the 'Nats judging program (past or present) isn't germane to this thread's topic of wing cars converted for sale.  It seems more like an attack on the messenger.  If there is a problem with the information that Darryl (DarrlyG) or Dave has presented, then stick to that particular debate.

Hey Gene,
Just for further clarification, these Gentleman we are meeting for lunch have no idea of the may-lay that occurred on this forum last week.  They do not know who owns the car and it has never been a witch hunt against anyone.  (Some information just luckily falls into the right hands!)  While talking with Mr. Weidner about all of the stories and "oddities" concerning Chrysler, this Daytona subject matter happened to be one of the areas that came up and it raised some eyebrows because we were familiar with the vehicle.  According to Mr. Wiedner, Gene Gerber was co-owner of St. Ann Dodge (BOTH owners from that Dealership died many years ago) and he was known for "fudging" a few of the vehicles that were sold there.  

Another story that was interesting (which I wasn't unaware of) is that ALL T/A Challengers and AAR Cudas were driven approximately 500 miles before they were placed on the Dealer's Lot and offered for sale to the public.  He stated that they were all basically "used cars" by the time the original owners titled them!  Mr. Wiedner was personally responsible for the sales (and driving quotas) of 13 vehicles of those types.  Dave Stuart thinks that mandate was specific to only the first shipments but Ralph believed it was for the entire production throughout the Country.  Apparently, they could not sell them until they had accumulated a certain amount of miles to comply with the racing program.  There are no conspiracies to any of this, just the truth and the truth has no agenda!  

[DAY CLONA]

Another story that was interesting (which I wasn't unaware of) is that ALL T/A Challengers and AAR Cudas were driven approximately 500 miles before they were placed on the Dealer's Lot and offered for sale to the public.  He stated that they were all basically "used cars" by the time the original owners titled them!  Mr. Wiedner was personally responsible for the sales (and driving quotas) of 13 vehicles of those types.  Dave Stuart thinks that mandate was specific to only the first shipments but Ralph believed it was for the entire production throughout the Country.  Apparently, they could not sell them until they had accumulated a certain amount of miles to comply with the racing program.  There are no conspiracies to any of this, just the truth and the truth has no agenda!  


[/quote]





Hey Dave,


Interesting?...If Ralph believed it was for the "entire" production of Trans Am cars, how does that explain Barry Washington's "documented" video of a 173 original mile T/A

Mike

[held1823]

as REO Speedwagon once said, the tales grow taller on down the line

i'm still trying to figure out the diabolical conspiracy in regards to 390018