Superbirds converted back to Road runners when new.

[GOTWING]

Ok, so for the last 8 years that i have had my Superbird I keep hearing this all the time, every car show, every car guy,etc. I hear so often about the Plymouth dealers could not sell the Superbirds when new so they transfered them back to regular road runners...If that's so, where is one? where is the proof ? vintage pictures ? owners / buyers that bought one like that when new?? is there anyone that actually worked at a dealership back then that can remember and back this up? Your talking from the firewall forward all new metal parts,grill,bumpers etc. remove the wing and fill the holes, and did they just leave the back window alone?? did they just leave the aero roof pillars? Cost wise i can't see it. The only thing i have even seen close is the white one on cars in barns with 440+6 4spd. with window plug still in and roof pillars on, besides that it looks production RR. it could be a factory job, but it also could have been done anytime during it's life. This may have already been discused on here...if so i just have not ran across it yet.

[Ghoste]

I believe there may have been one or two but yeah, I'm with you.  It gets tossed around now like it was so commonplace that the myth even extends back to Daytona's now.  At one time you heard they sold quite well but lately I hear people claiming how they as well languished on the lots for years and got converted back to regular Chargers.
Lets see the proof.

[GOTWING]

I can see where "some" may have sat for over a year on the lot, heck there are dealers today that have "bastard units" that sit on the lot for over a year, i used to sell cars in the mid 90's for a few years and i have seen it first hand. As a matter of fact we had a brand new black 1998 Ford F-150 short bed reg.cab NASCAR edition truck, it had a 4.6 v8 with crank windows no power options and did have carpet, it had ugly black Lincoln Navigator rims with yellow letter tires and ugly graphics, we had the body shop peel off all of the bold NASCAR decals, had the body shop and the service dept. paint the rims silver and turned in the yellow letter tires, it finally sold as just a basic work truck, it's still around town very weathered and beat.

[Aero426]

This is an urban legend that grows every time the story is told and retold.    With only 500 cars available, Daytonas sold very quickly.    Most Superbirds were sold by early 1971.    There are a few cars that hung around for whatever reason.  But we are not talking about many unsold cars in the scope of almost 2000 built.   It would be cheaper to deeply discount a Superbird and blow it out, compared to the parts and labor expense of converting back to a standard Road Runner.   Think about it. 

[69CoronetRT]

This is an urban legend that grows every time the story is told and retold.    With only 500 cars available, Daytonas sold very quickly.    Most Superbirds were sold by early 1971.    There are a few cars that hung around for whatever reason.  But we are not talking about many unsold cars in the scope of almost 2000 built.   It would be cheaper to deeply discount a Superbird and blow it out, compared to the parts and labor expense of converting back to a standard Road Runner.   Think about it. 

Good post. It could not have been cost effective to 'convert' SBs to RR sheet metal. Why put more money into a car you can't sell already? Cut the price and move it out.

[nascarxx29]

They might have removed wing here or there .But transform whole car back to RR doesnt add up   .
Back in the day when these cars got wrecked by owners I seen many ending up with regular front clips





http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,57521.0.html

[GOTWING]

Aero426, and 69CoronetRT, very well put and very true,  NascarXX29, thanks for the pic!

[Aero426]

I will also add that in regard to a dealer converting cars back, versus cutting the price - most dealers were paying finance charges (floorplanning) on their inventory.   The longer the car sat, the more it cost the dealer to let it sit.    It is true that a few dealers got "stuck" with a car.    At least one refused to sell the car, so he could complain to the zone rep about the "loser" he had been stuck with.  That one was finally sold for full sticker in 1973  .    

Ron Poage in Ohio bought an unsold Hemi, 4-speed Superbird in 1972 from a dealer in a rural area.    But it was intact.  No nose or wing removed.

Tom Pridmore in Florida bought a new Superbird in '70 without a wing.   The dealer claimed it had been lot damaged.  I will say that it would be a lot easier to remove the wing to make a car more marketable. 

[nascarxx29]

Unsold wingcar posting
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,12161.0.html

[nascarxx29]

This one sat on the lot and got more then its wing damaged

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65622.0.html


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65561.0.html

[Mopar John]

 I think that more Superbirds and Daytonas involved in accidents had regular Road Runner and Charger front ends installed. Some savvy sellers probably came up with the being sold new that way to mask crash damage???
MJ

[pettybird]

Our petty blue car was delivered on 12/26/69 and sold 2/26/70--when people tell me about how they all sat around, they get really big eyed when I point that out...

[hemigeno]

Within the past week I heard from a gentleman who knows one of the Regional Sales Managers from the St. Louis area back in 1969.  The Sales Rep is still alive and kicking, and SPECIFICALLY remembers a Daytona which was sold without its nose and wing (i.e. it had a Charger front clip and no wing).  It's not my story to tell, but I'll see if I can prod him into telling the story himself, and maybe post the name & how to contact the Sales Rep to confirm the facts.

Up until then, I'd always heard the rumors of Superbirds being converted to 'Runners but had thought Daytonas were never treated in the same fashion.

[Mike DC]

 
I've always heard that there was a market for a few wing cars but not 2500 of them.  So the first 500 Daytonas moved pretty easily but some of the birds eventually took a lot longer to sell.  




Another thing - converting a Daytona to a regular Charger requires a lot less parts/labor than undoing a Superbird.  Removing the Daytona nosecone leaves you with most of the 1970 Charger's front end remaining, which was the current model-year for sale at the time.  

But removing the nose off a Superbird still leaves you with a customized hood and the fenders of a Dodge.  The Superbird would need to have an entire front clip swapped in order to give it any chance of passing for a regular 1970 Plymouth.  And the stock front clip was all-new that year too.  

Either way, IMHO the year-swapping would have been a lot more feasible if the dealership was dealing with a wing car that already had front end damage from a wreck or something. 

[Robert96]

Now let's get really weird, does anyone remember Chargers or Roadrunners with non standard wings added? I could swear I remember a couple at Tom Kneer back in the day, but I was also majoring in pharmaceuticals at the time so who knows. I remember them being orange with black wings. They were parked at the corner of the lot at Glenway and Childs Ave. I think!!!

[GOTWING]

A gentleman named Charlie Marshall who lived just outside of Lewes De. had purchased a brand new blue 1969 Plymouth road Runner with a 383, he had Petty enterprise install a wing on his car shortly after he bought it, the car was always garage kept and had low mileage, he would not wash it, he would just wipe it off he had wax caked in all the cracks of the door edges and on the blue steel rims etc. it was a survivor car, the car had switches to kill the brake lights etc.I could have got the car in 1986 for $6,000, the car later sold in 1990 for $10,000 . His wife had sold the car a few years later after he passed away. I would love to know the cars status today.

[DarrlyG]

Hey Guys.  I am new here and this thread is the type of information that will get you in trouble on other websites.  I know because the information I obtained was not welcome on another site.  I think the car is being judged at a show this Summer and someone wants to keep the story hidden.  I am waiting for further information from Ralph Wiedner on a Daytona that was sold in Missouri from a dealership called St. Ann Dodge in Saint Ann, Mo.  Ralph has been a long time friend and was the Zone Manager for Chrysler back in 1969.  He is absolutely positive that one of their Daytona's was sold without the front nose or the rear wing.  No one would buy the car so they took them off.  He also said that the left over parts were thrown away in their body shop dumpster.  I asked if he was serious and he said YES.  The car is also registered as a XS29L9B390018.  I know this because I talked with a guy named Jim Hertz who is in charge of all the DMV  records across the Country.  Anyone can call and check.  There is no record of an XX car listed with the DMV that has those last 6 sequence numbers.  He is sending me the microfiche printouts on the car.  Ralph still keeps contact with the original salesman who sold the car and is getting all of the records.  When he gets the info I will list it here to give some credibility to all the old wives tales that have been going around.

[held1823]

i look forward to the story and the debate, but hope that you don't read too much into an XS registration implying that a daytona was converted back into a regular charger r/t. two daytonas were owned new in this small indiana town, and both cars contained the XS error in their paperwork.

[Aero426]

This is 390018 before restoration.    Does not look like a car that was stripped of its parts.   But even if it was, it is still a real Daytona.   

[HPP]

DMVs throughout the country are all connected now?

[SBBob]

Just my 2 cents about converted cars.  I got my car in 1982 from and estate sale.  The gentleman that owned it before me had 3 Birds.  When I was looking at my car (the only one left - he had sold the other 2 before he died).  After I was told I was getting the car the brother handling the estate said come get the car on Monday morning and bring a pick up truck.  Just before the money transaction took place he took me upstairs to the attic at the lumber store and there was a complete front clip and wing from a white Superbird.  There was not a scratch or dent on any of the pieces.  My first thought was stolen parts, but he explained about his brothers other 2 cars and told me that for 2 years a dealer in the Seattle area kept calling him and telling him that they had these parts.  Finally they made him a deal he could not say NO to and he went down to the dealership, paid $100.00 cash and 2 six packs of beer for the parts (around 1973 or 1974).  He was told they came off of a car that was transformed to a Roadrunner and they were tired of counting them in their inventory.  These are the parts that are now on my car.  Here are some pictures of the car from 1985 at a car show.  So I do think that at least one dealership did it.

[69CoronetRT]

welcome to the site. i look forward to the story and the debate, but hope that you don't read too much into an XS registration implying that a daytona was converted back into a regular charger r/t.

Simply removing the nose and tail does not change the fact that the VIN would still read XX (assuming it came that way and not mis VINned as an XS in the first place). No smart person would change the VIN at the DMV.

What would be the motivation for a dealer to change paperwork for an XX car to an XS? The dealer wouldn't care what the VIN was on the car as long as he sold the car. Messing with the VIN would not be worth the trouble it would cause.

[charger Downunder]

That first pic is that a red Daytona with a vinyle roof.?

[hemigeno]

This is 390018 before restoration.    Does not look like a car that was stripped of its parts.   But even if it was, it is still a real Daytona.  

That's Tony D.'s car, right?  I know I've seen that picture before, but it's in much better shape now last I heard.  It's my understanding he's entered it at the 'Nats this year in the OEM Certification, along with JohnTPR's Y2 and my R4 Daytona (plus Rob B.'s '68 Coronet R/T) - but the impetus behind why he would want to keep the history of his car hidden is lost on me... is there more to that?

BTW, thanks for joining up and chiming in with the St. Ann Dodge story, Darryl.    I would not have guessed a Daytona had its nose & wing discarded to make a sale before hearing that, but I've been wrong before...  

As for the XX vs XS, we've had that discussion here several times.  To my knowledge, all of the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin documents showed the Daytonas to be XS cars despite the fact that their VINs and Fender Tags (well, with the exception of Dan Printz's mis-stamped VIN and the Reeker car's fender tag) all read XX.  Why Chrysler did that with the MSO's remains a mystery to me, but there are a boatload of examples - including my own Daytona and several other Missouri cars- which were incorrectly titled and licensed as XS when they are original/legit XX Daytonas.

[DC_1]