Superbirds converted back to Road runners when new.

[Beep Beep Dave]

Hey Tony,

I just got back from Carlisle, man did your Daytona ever look good. What a great looking car. I will have to add the white with red interior and stripe to my "dream" list of Daytona's.

Thanks for bringing it so I could enjoy it.

Best of luck with it.

Dave

[Aero426]

I just spoke with Ralph today and he gave alot more information on the XX(S?)29L9B390018.  It did have the nose and wing removed and thrown away and was sold by either a sales guy named Lee or Art who worked at Saint Ann Dodge.  A Woman also sold cars there but he did not think she was involved in the sale.  He is getting the last name of the sales guy who sold it.  Both guys are not alive but the person who actually threw the parts away is alive and retired from Signal Dodge.  He was transferred from the Bodyshop at Saint Ann Dodge to the Signal Dodge Dealership.  Ralph said Gene Gerber was a co-owner of Saint Ann Dodge and was involved in all sorts of switching cars such as the converting of this Daytona car.  The original engine was also supposedly trashed the third year it was in operation and a guy in Illinois still has the damaged block.  The floor pans were also completely rotted out.  He is sending me pictures of the car later tonight and I will try and figure out how to post them here.  Interesting stuff for sure.   

Where are the pics?    

[TONY]

these were taken while the engine and trans were still in the car

[1970Dart3406]

The yellow Superbird in one of the previous posts with the standard nose was bought cheap with a damaged nosecone and had the standard frontend put on it. A friend of mine in Pittsburgh who owned a bodyshop back in the day was responsible for this car. He has turned out some awesome Mopars in his time.

[djcarguy]

I just spoke with Ralph today and he gave alot more information on the XX(S?)29L9B390018.  It did have the nose and wing removed and thrown away and was sold by either a sales guy named Lee or Art who worked at Saint Ann Dodge.  A Woman also sold cars there but he did not think she was involved in the sale.  He is getting the last name of the sales guy who sold it.  Both guys are not alive but the person who actually threw the parts away is alive and retired from Signal Dodge.  He was transferred from the Bodyshop at Saint Ann Dodge to the Signal Dodge Dealership.  Ralph said Gene Gerber was a co-owner of Saint Ann Dodge and was involved in all sorts of switching cars such as the converting of this Daytona car.  The original engine was also supposedly trashed the third year it was in operation and a guy in Illinois still has the damaged block.  The floor pans were also completely rotted out.  He is sending me pictures of the car later tonight and I will try and figure out how to post them here.  Interesting stuff for sure.   

[djcarguy]

Hey Guys.  I am new here and this thread is the type of information that will get you in trouble on other websites.  I know because the information I obtained was not welcome on another site.  I think the car is being judged at a show this Summer and someone wants to keep the story hidden.  I am waiting for further information from Ralph Wiedner on a Daytona that was sold in Missouri from a dealership called St. Ann Dodge in Saint Ann, Mo.  Ralph has been a long time friend and was the Zone Manager for Chrysler back in 1969.  He is absolutely positive that one of their Daytona's was sold without the front nose or the rear wing.  No one would buy the car so they took them off.  He also said that the left over parts were thrown away in their body shop dumpster.  I asked if he was serious and he said YES.  The car is also registered as a XS29L9B390018.  I know this because I talked with a guy named Jim Hertz who is in charge of all the DMV  records across the Country.  Anyone can call and check.  There is no record of an XX car listed with the DMV that has those last 6 sequence numbers.  He is sending me the microfiche printouts on the car.  Ralph still keeps contact with the original salesman who sold the car and is getting all of the records.  When he gets the info I will list it here to give some credibility to all the old wives tales that have been going around.

[djcarguy]

This is 390018 before restoration.    Does not look like a car that was stripped of its parts.   But even if it was, it is still a real Daytona.   

[djcarguy]

although your photos show otherwise, that car was obviously stripped of its aero body parts, just like the chrysler sales rep's photogenic memory said.

i'm told by a renowned expert that i need to open my mind to reality, and let the flawed recollections of others trump any photographic proof. this post is my first attempt at following his sage advice...

[Arnie Cunningham]

Thank you to whomever cleaned out this thread.

[moparstuart]

Thank you to whomever cleaned out this thread.

  GENO

[hemigeno]

Better late than never...

[Nwcharger]

I was talking to my mother a few months back and she was talking to her parts manager about my daytona clone. he was telling her that he was a parts manager for a dealer in the mid west for many years back then and he remembers a few sets of wings and nose cones that were removed from cars they couldn't sell sitting in the corner of the top floor of there parts department for years. He now works for another local dealer so I'll have to track him down to find out the whole story.

[Ghoste]

I tend to take that with a grain of salt though.  How many dealerships had "a few" wing cars in inventory at all let alone sitting around long enough to have to convert.  I'm still a skeptic.

[ECS]

I tend to take that with a grain of salt though.  How many dealerships had "a few" wing cars in inventory at all let alone sitting around long enough to have to convert.  I'm still a skeptic.

Rather than simply type an opinion, why don't you (or anyone else here) provide contradictory verbiage or proof from a "credible source" that supports your hypotheticals?  I posted an interview from a retired Chrysler Executive that I had met and talked to one time prior to this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwd4aZ19H_c and he was called a "liar" regarding his recollection of the scenario.  The truth of the matter is that his "accusers" were not willing to consider the information because it was not conducive to their embellished and grandiose story of the vehicle's history.  Rather than accept the evidence of the front nose (which was the replacement offered by Chrysler in 1972) they concocted a story about its unique originality!  The evidence was staring them right in the face but rather than accept the facts, a story was fabricated to accommodate their agenda.  Make things up to sensationalize the vehicle!  Spin the facts to confuse or mislead the audience!   Compromise or distort the truth in order to protect your reputation!  This seems to be protocol for the modern day Mopar Hobby!

It amazes me how those who were not around during that time (1969-70) have more credible information than those who WERE there when they share their stories.  These were hunks of metal that were made to be sold in 1969.  They were not the Gold Collectable Idols that many seem to think they are now.  I work with General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.  Every venue has past Employees that have similar stories as it relates to the unorthodox things that were done to cars in order to sell them back in the day.  You think the Daytona stories are far fetched, you should hear some of the recollections about the Boss 429 conversions at the Kar Kraft Brighton Plant!  It must be a conspiracy amongst a group of 1960' & 70's Automotive Employees, members of different auto manufacturers who do not know each other, yet they all convey similar stories.

[Ghoste]

You're dragging that up again?  Not much for carrying a grudge are you?  Anyway, I offered my OPINION, yes an opinion, based on a position of skepticism and with that OPINION, not a statement of fact but an opinion, offered my reason for thinking so.  Do you have a credible reason to offer an opinion counter to mine?  If so, please freely offer it.  Much like the all TA were mandated to be driven a minimum mileage before delivery debate I only ask for actual proof in this long standing tale.  It seems like everyone has HEARD of many wing cars being converted to standard versions but very very very few have been able to offer anything other than hearsay evidence.
If you have some accurate numbers on how many were converted Dave or some previously top secret photos of these many cars that were converted please, make me wrong. I truly want to be wrong if that is what it takes to get actual evidence on some of these things because whether you choose to believe me or not, my position has absolutely nothing to do with massaging my bruised ego and everything with being able to establish certain pieces of Mopar folklore as fact or fiction.
No one has disputed in this thread that some were not converted, only that it didn't happen in huge numbers.

[nascarxx29]

    If you seen this ad back in the day you get the impression thats how they were at the dealers

[ECS]

You're dragging that up again?  .......I offered my OPINION, yes an opinion, based on a position of skepticism.....Do you have a credible reason to offer an opinion counter to mine?  If so, please freely offer it.....

Your response is a prime example of why your "opinions" lack credibility.  The gentleman in the video talked about a Daytona that was converted to a regular Charger in order to be sold.  (Reference the 4:45 thru 8:45 mark of the video.  He specifically addressed what this thread is about.)  He gave a few examples of things that were done to sell the less desirable cars back in the day.  THAT is why I re-posted it!  Had you took the time to investigate things before speaking out, your opinions might be based on substance rather than unsubstantiated "skepticism"!  

[JB400]

 

[Ghoste]

Except Dave, had you bothered to follow it more closely you would realize I was referencing a post in this thread, not your you tube video.  I'm sure you would like for me to just blindly accept anything you say but I prefer facts that can be proven to ones that are hearsay. Now before you come back and accuse me of calling your friend a liar again (which by the way, I have never done) let me make it clear I don't know your friend, all I know is that there seems to be a growing myth that LOTS of wing cars were converted.  I say I don't believe it, I want more proof.  Sorry that is my right no matter how much it pisses you off.  By the way, Mr Weidner says in the video that he HEARD of ONE 69 "Daytona 500" that had the wing and nose removed but that he never witnessed it.  He doesn't say a bunch, he says he heard of a single example.  That is my point, almost all of these stories are based on someone HEARING about it.  We have seen very very little real evidence of it happening.  Again, I never have said that it didn't happen, I said I don't believe it was as common as current folklore would lead us to believe.
Bring me some facts Dave, not hearsay.  Because otherwise all you are giving me is YOUR opinion and your opinion is no more credible to me than mine is to you.

[Redbird]

I don't see any reason that a whole lot of Superbirds weren't converted. All they had to do was: take the nose-valance panels-nose supports and hood off (the easy part), take the fenders off including the mastic holding the inner fenders to the outer fenders, remove the inner metal splash guards because the Dodge pieces on the car didn't fit Plymouth fenders, rip the latch tray support off the car because it was spot welded on the car and would interfere with the Belvedere pieces. Decide if the hood pins should be tossed in case more work was needed to fit them to a RR hood. Then get all the new pieces, including a new front wiring harness, headlights, bottom fender braces, hood latch release and supporting panel, plus a few other pieces. Put the Plymouth fenders and inner splash guards in place and undercoat it. Put everything back together and match some paint both on the outside and engine compartment ( because they ripped the seam sealer and latch tray support off). Then block off the headlight vacuum.

Or maybe they just sold it at discount price as it was, like the Ken Brown ads from 1970 said, instead.

[A383Wing]

sounds like someone here needs a hug

Bryan 

[Aero426]

I don't see any reason that a whole lot of Superbirds weren't converted. All they had to do was: take the nose-valance panels-nose supports and hood off (the easy part), take the fenders off including the mastic holding the inner fenders to the outer fenders, remove the inner metal splash guards because the Dodge pieces on the car didn't fit Plymouth fenders, rip the latch tray support off the car because it was spot welded on the car and would interfere with the Belvedere pieces. Decide if the hood pins should be tossed in case more work was needed to fit them to a RR hood. Then get all the new pieces, including a new front wiring harness, headlights, bottom fender braces, hood latch release and supporting panel, plus a few other pieces. Put the Plymouth fenders and inner splash guards in place and undercoat it. Put everything back together and match some paint both on the outside and engine compartment ( because they ripped the seam sealer and latch tray support off). Then block off the headlight vacuum.

Not to mention the expense of the all the new parts and then PAYING YOUR SKILLED LABOR for the many hours of conversion.  This would not be a quick or cheap proposition.   Common sense should prevail here that that the wholesale changeover of cars was not likely.   

[Ghoste]

And thats all I'm trying to say.  I just don't think it was as common as it seems like it is being made out to be.  And I sure as hell wasn't questioning Mr. Weidner's recollection of it. 

[ECS]

Bring me some facts Dave, not hearsay.  All I've seen so far is YOUR opinion based on something you were told.

It's apparent that you expect a notarized document from Chrysler regarding things of this nature.  You won't find that!  Nor will you find notarized documents from Chrysler stating that the Deanships repainted cars for Customers or switched wheels, or applied stripping after the fact, or removed Factory stripes if the Customer requested, or Air Conditioning added, etc.....  Things of such nature absolutely happened and the only reference you will usually find are the testimonials from the individuals who worked for Chrysler (or the Dealerships) that can verify the scenarios.  Sorry ghoste but "hearsay" from those Executives who worked for Chrysler during the day hold a bit more credibility than your personal view. One thing for sure, your "skepticism" doesn't change the reality or recollection of their personal experiences.  Your "opinion" also doesn't bother or affect me whatsoever!  Take it for what it is or isn't.      

[Ghoste]

Actually I have never asked for that either and I am well aware of how things went down at dealerships. (worked in them for many years myself)  I express skepticism that lots were converted and you challenged my credibility based on the you tube video that you implied I didn't watch.  I did watch it.  He mentioned a single unit that he heard of and never witnessed.  So I would say that his reality and recollection do in fact, back my opinion, that very few were done and that most of the stories about it happening are hearsay.