Superbirds converted back to Road runners when new.

[Redbird]

Somehow I never thought Ken Brown was selling 6bbl Superbirds out of the goodness of their hearts for $ 3195 in 1970. I believe that was the close out price in the Fall of 1970.

[ECS]

I express skepticism that lots were converted and you challenged my credibility based on the you tube video that you implied I didn't watch.  I did watch it.  He mentioned a single unit that he heard of and never witnessed.

Wow!  Really?  Is that your way to back off from YOUR initiating attack?  I NEVER challenged your credibility or said that it happened on a regular basis!!  You obviously have me confused with someone else.  The ONLY reference I EVER made to a winged car conversion was the one mentioned in the video interview with Ralph.  Please point out ONE post where I EVER said that ANY other wing car had been converted.

I am buying my Son a new Challenger for his 16th Birthday in November.  Would you like to hear about all the "custom" changes (for him) that the Dealership is willing to do on one of their Inventory cars?  

[held1823]

  If you seen this ad back in the day you get the impression thats how they were at the dealers

i see that ad and realize the copy editor in the newspaper's advertising department didn't have a photo of a roadrunner superbird, so he used the closest thing he had on hand. it's unlikely he could have googled the correct image to use.

[hotrod98]

If a customer walked into a dealership and wanted to buy a car and have the wing stuff removed, the dealers around here would have jumped at the chance to sell a car, any car.  As for after the sale, all kinds of things happened to these cars throughout the years. I guarantee if I had owned a Daytona or a bird in the late 70's, early 80's and wrecked it, I would have done whatever possible to get the car back on the road. Front clips were plentiful and cheap. I had several friends with shaker hood Cudas and as soon as the carb backfired and burned the shaker, it was removed, trashed and the hood removed and trashed as well. I remember a friend of mine folding his perfect shaker hood in half and throwing it into the dumpster. We were trashing these cars left and right. They were cheap transportation. We assumed these cars would continue to decline in value until they were crushed and recycled. I never dreamed that 40 years later I would have buildings full of old Mopars.

[Ghoste]

My attack?  You went on the attack I merely defended.  All of my "attacks" came after you challenged my right to post an opinion.  You claimed I was doing it without facts and then went on a rant about all the things that were done at dealerships to sell cars.  Please oh please forgive me if I mistook statements like that to mean that you believed that many wing cars were converted.  Your response to my wrongful request for facts to back your statement resulted in you telling me that my opinions have no credibility.  That strangely makes it look like you were on the attack but since that is only my opinion and my opinions lack credibility, I am obviously wrong there as well.
My opinion on this topic is exactly the same as it was at the beginning of the thread whether you think I have credibility or not.

[ECS]

All of my "attacks" came after you challenged my right to post an opinion.

You conveniently forgot the cadence of responses prior to Gene "cleaning up" the thread.  I didn't!

[Ghoste]

If you are talking about the part where it spun off into the TA debate, I haven't forgotten at all and I stand by everything that I stated in that other topic.  I even stand by my cadence.  In fact, I tried to be civil in that issue and brought it up in a different forum in an effort to avoid acrimony that accompanied it here and to expose it to a greater audience so as to arrive at some consensus of opinion, or did you conveniently forget that?  Different topic and different circumstances.

[Redbird]

I would think that a lot of folks would agree that plenty of used Superbirds got Road Runner front ends after an accident, there are a good number of pictures of that. There is even a really good picture of a ruined Superbird in a swimming pool, not to mention a picture of someone cold chiseling a ruined Superbird quarter panel to get at the wing supports.

I am of the belief that there could have been, and was at least one Superbird converted to a Road Runner when new. I don't see a conspiracy one way or another. But for me, with the amount of work required to change a new car around, and I don't believe C/P would look kindly on a dealer finding a used/salvage Road Runner for conversion parts; ordering all new parts for a general or approved policy of conversion is a pretty good stretch.

Many of us like the cars. As someone smarter than me said " Some say they are ugly, but everybody looks twice".

Smile easy

[A383Wing]

Your "opinion" also doesn't bother or affect me whatsoever!  Take it for what it is or isn't.      

sounds like it does, to me anyway

Bryan

[nascarxx29]

     My friends superbird came from Don Horrow motors they changed the price often from $3850 to $3395 on stock #2749

[ECS]

sounds like it does, to me anyway....

You must have a better computer system than mine.  I don't hear any "sound" coming from the typed responses.

[JB400]

   Does anyone have any first hand accounts of the Superbird or Daytona getting its wings clipped?  Right now, all I'm hearing is hearsay amongst the bickering about hearsay.  Or show me a car that was put back to base model.  Either way, it sounds like people crying over spilled milk that someone said was spilled.

[Arnie Cunningham]

Like most things in life, the appearance of what is taking place is the "effect".  The "cause" is usually something very different.  There is a lot more to this story than the conversion of Superbirds back into standard Road Runners.

[A383Wing]

You must have a better computer system than mine.  I don't hear any "sound" coming from the typed responses.

I probably do, because all I hear is noise from the other end

Bryan

[ECS]

I probably do, because all I hear is noise from the other end

You might need to have that fixed.  Good luck!

[ECS]

I'm hearing is hearsay amongst the bickering about hearsay.......

Please explain why Chrysler executives that share their personal experiences (with this regards to this information) is considered "hearsay"?  I would hate to see if some of you were lawyers when "expert" witnesses were called into Court provide their "expert" testimony.  You would constantly be standing up "objecting" to the Judge claiming their expert testimony is nothing more than "hearsay".  Sorry guys but no one can transport you back to 1969 to personally witness these things.  The only option left is to listen to those who were there and actually were part of the "hearsay".  If what they say doesn't make you happy, tell them they're wrong and re-write history to accommodate your own particular agenda!    

[JB400]

Since you failed to list my full sentence in your argument, I'll mention it again.  I'm looking for a first hand account or an actual car.  Nothing else is going to work. It's just a bunch of wind.  I'm looking to cut the crap I guess you can say.

[ECS]

I'm looking for a first hand account or an actual car.  Nothing else is going to work. It's just a bunch of wind.  I'm looking to cut the crap I guess you can say.

You got it from a Chrysler Executive but don't want to believe it! The Dealership Employees (that he had a personal working relationship with) told them that they did this TO THE DAYTONA THAT HE ORDERED FOR THE DEALERSHIP!  Why would they have lied to him in 1969 about doing this to a car?  The information came directly from him! It wan't told by the typical someone knew someone, that heard about someone, who knew a guy, whose Friend told him about a guy that......  

I noticed that some of you who classify Ralph Weidner's information as "hearsay" have engaged in MANY conversations on this forum that require responding to information that you have not personally been involved with or seen.  Is there a different logic or a double standard with regards to "acceptable hearsay" and "non-acceptible hearsay" for those who provide advice or answers questions about situations that they don't positively know are legitimate?    Why don't you classify this for what it really is?  Someone outside of your little click expresses information you may not be aware of and you attack the content or messenger.  You guys are right!  It was all a bunch of hogwash.  The man was probably just crazy or something!  I'm sure you will fabrica.....uh.....I mean figure out the truth sooner or later.  

[JB400]

Considering that vid was made recently, what makes you think he was telling the truth now?  Everyone lies, that's why I'm asking for proof first hand, or actual car.

[held1823]

let's cut to the chase, mr. walden, rather than trying to be cute and clever.

the daytona SPECIFICALLY referred as being striped of its parts when new is vin #XX29L9B390018, which happens to be the white car that recently received OE Gold certification at the mopar nationals. you obviously have a hard on of unspecified origin in regards to the current owner of this daytona, but that is a whole other topic and not germane to this thread. let's stick to the "evidence" that has been presented thus far.

your "worked there, back in the day" source of "expert" testimony, with regard to 390018 being converted to a regular charger, is human. humans often times make mistakes. while his credentials may be redoubtable, this expert is fully capable of misconstruing the facts, especially four decades later. he isn't lying or deliberately trying to deceive anyone, but the end result is not necessarily how things truly were. the only "evidence" this expert presents, is his spoken word. unless i am mistaken, your side rested its case at this point, with nothing else offered as evidence.

the opposing side of this debate has presented numerous photos (many of them can be found in this very thread) of 390018, still wearing all of its daytona-specific parts. the "back in the day" ownership trail has been established, up to and including the present day owner. given the overwhelming amount of contradictory evidence, from both human recollection and photographic documentation, your expert witness would fail to convince any judge or jury that his recollection of 390018, from over 40 years ago, is accurate.

yet we sheeple are too narrow minded to accept his word as gospel.

[ECS]

let's cut to the chase, ...the daytona SPECIFICALLY referred as being striped of its parts when new is vin #XX29L9B390018, this expert is fully capable of misconstruing the facts, especially four decades later.

You want to cut to the chase?  Who cares what parts were changed or replaced?  It doesn't diminish the restoration or make this car any less of a "real" Daytona!  It actually adds to the uniqueness of the car's past.  So why lie and spin a bunch of garbage about its history?  

I'm sure you know more about the car that Ralph ordered for the St. Ann Dealership than he did.  Of course the difference in paint hues and the fact that the grill was a 1972 version have no bearing with reality whatsoever.....right?  You simply see what you want to see!  

I wonder if Tom Hoover and Norm Krauss were "misconstrued" with their recollections of their involvement with Chrysler vehicles?  Does your "four decade" logic and assessments apply to those guys or is your hypocrisy limited to certain individuals?  Should ALL retired people be discounted when you don't want to accept their recollections?  I wonder if Carl Cameron was "misconstrued" when he told me his inspiration for designing the 1966 Charger was a 1956 Cadillac?  When talking with Carrol Shelby a few years ago at SEMA I wonder if he was "misconstrued" when he talked about racing his cars?  I wonder if Ed Roth was "misconstrued" when he told me how he designed the Orbitron or his passion for teaching Sunday School Church Class?  Thanks for opening my eyes about all of these people who probably "misconstrued" the stories about their careers!  And to think many Automobile shows (currently airing on Cable Television) STILL interview these retirees to get their "misconstrued" versions of the past!     Genius observation....pure Genius!

[JB400]

Obviously, there's no light at the end of this tunnel

[Ghoste]

Mr. Weidner did not remove the parts himself, did not supervise the removal himself, did not observe them being removed, did not see the removed parts, did not see the car after the fact and he is the one who states clearly that he did not witness any of this but some employees told him it happened.  He heard that it took place and he said that.  That pretty much makes it hearsay evidence.  The fact that he was a district sales manager for that zone doesn't have anything to do with any of it.
I keep using the term hearsay because in this topic, most of the stories have been from people who heard about it happening.  Not original owners who said they requested it, not ex employees who could at least say they did it, none of that.  With only a couple of exceptions this topic has been anecdotal and that is why I keep asking for proof.
 

[Cooter]

I guess it's a good thing we's ain't talking bout Chargers being converted into General Lees. Wouldn't want to see two guys going at it over stupid sh*t or anything.

[held1823]

dave, since you continually rewrite or paraphrase other people to suit your ever-changing point of view, answer two simple yes or no questions.

do you even remotely consider that the gentleman's recollection, be it first hand or otherwise, might not be exact?

you insist 390018 had the aero pieces removed prior to retail delivery, calling the current version of things a total fabrication. verbatim, you state

So why lie and spin a bunch of garbage about its history

does anyone outside YOUR click agree with this assertion?