Charger Vs Turbo Buick

[Blacknight]

Well i have owned quite a few mopars and i will always love Chargers. But now i am getting into the turbo buick cars. Have any of you guys ever raced against them? I was wondering how you did i know they are really fast when modified. Thanks Dax

[BB1]

Buddy of mine does high 11's with a few mods. Motor has never been apart, no slicks.

[Ram07]

Is that a fair comparison?...What almost 20 yrs difference....right?

[Blacknight]

What do you mean fair comparison?? I just asking if anyone has run against a turbo buick? Big block 440 or 383 against turbo 3.8 litre.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hello Blacknight,I have been into Buicks(V8's and the turbo Regals) as well as Mopars,and have owned my GN for 21 years now.It seems like a large majority of brand x crowds take a liking and following to the 86,87 GN's and Turbo Regals,and for good reason.Been around drag racing for a long time,had numerous cars that I used to take to the track and by far,especially cars from the 80's,there is no other car to gain the kind of power for the money as the 86,87 Turbo Regal cars.Back in the early -mid 90's there must have been a dozen of us that had them and for an easy recipe with less than $500.00 and a set of slicks,not touching the turbo or anything inside the motor was an easy car to get 12.50 @ 109 mph.And get 1.60's for sixty foots out of a car that weighs 3,700lbs and only 3.42 gears.The sound they produce is another fun part of driving them,ntm,passes the emissions,rides real nice,looks awesome,handles,A/C and 25mpg on the highway !!!! Alot of great stuff wrapped up in one car.
 Its amazing the big following still on a car that was only made 2 years(the good ones,intercooled),and is now 25 years old,and the vendors still there with parts offerings.
Honestly,when they first came out,I loved how they looked ,it was'nt till later on that I learned the power potential of them.
IMO,it's a car that owning you don't get sick of or tired of !!!! Recently I just picked up a 1989 20th Anniversary Trans Am Pace Car that not to many even know what they are,but are the sister car to the GN's,as they were powered by the same Buick turbo intercooled  V6.Now you have a car that handles like heck and has the sound,mpg's,and  power potential that the GN's had.
Suprisingly,there are a couple members here already that own one or the other.
My cars engine has never been apart,stock tranny and rear,did the bolt on items,and have run  12.21 @ 112 mph with a 1.65 sixty foot.That run my trans was slipping on the 1-2 shift and was experiencing a boost fluctuation problem.Those problems rectified,the car most likely will see 11.80's-11.90's.
I have a couple of other friends with some real fast ones,that are very knowledgable with them.
Summing it up for you,awesome car to own !!!!If you do start looking for one,if you can do so,buy a cleaner average mile car to start off with.Trust me.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Some of you might remember my post of a car show here in Ct back in the winter of a group of cars in my friends display booth at the show who owns a resto shop.A good friend of mine who works there as well as myself,and the owner crammed to get his 86 T-type done for that show.Besides trying to make big amounts of power with this car,he also wanted it to be a show car in detail and paint.The owner did the bodywork,my other good friend the resto shop owner painted it and I helped with a good amount of the sanding and buffing.The car turned out real nice,and  2 weeks ago we all went to a track rental with him for his first time out with the car,lets just say having good power is an understatement.Some pics and a you tube vid..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3GqdqwQdA

[Chryco Psycho]

I worked on a friends GN , it was nutz , ran 9s on drag radials , felt like it would lift the front wheels .......@ 60 MPH
I had a big block 440 Duster that would pull the front wheels & run mids 11s all day .. it would never stay with the GN !!

[69 OUR/TEA]

And another friend who went that day that drives his car to the track 120 miles each way,10.00 @ 138 mph,still on a stock 3.8 block.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavJRjMQA44&feature=relmfu

[Blacknight]

Wow what a beautiful car!!! I get the same feeling looking at these cars as i do with the charger. The only two cars that get me excited to see!! Yea i am in the process of getting a t type turbo buick. I think it will be fun to drive. Dax

[69 OUR/TEA]

Mine with the drag tires and stock....

[Mytur Binsdirti]

No doubt they are fast cars & can be hopped up easily.

[Ghoste]

In my 69 with a modified 440 I handed a stock GN his ass.
In my 67 with a slightly modified 383 a modified GN ripped my ass off my body and shoved it so far down my throat I damn near puked.
That answer it for ya?

[69 OUR/TEA]

In my 69 with a modified 440 I handed a stock GN his ass.
In my 67 with a slightly modified 383 a modified GN ripped my ass off my body and shoved it so far down my throat I damn near puked.
That answer it for ya?

That is funny stuff Ghoste !!!!!!

[Ghoste]

It's about the truth though.  To make it worse, in version two, he had his girlfriend riding with him.

[bakerhillpins]

If I had the coin and the space I would put a GN or GNX in my garage. 

Also like the Monte Carlo's of the mid 80s..  Guess I am a bit 

[tpetty]

One of cars in my ultimate garage, along with a 68/69 Charger, is an 87/88 Monte SS.  The Monte doesn't have the power of the GN -- but it was the "cool" car back in high school. 

[mauve66]

them buicks b flyin dude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kMTHwjy6Z8

[bakerhillpins]

One of cars in my ultimate garage, along with a 68/69 Charger, is an 87/88 Monte SS.  The Monte doesn't have the power of the GN -- but it was the "cool" car back in high school. 

Ain't that the truth     

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Are you the same Blacknight who was on the original site like 10 years ago? Had an all-black '68?

[aussiemuscle]

Is that a fair comparison?...What almost 20 yrs difference....right?

no, but he doesn't want it moved to 'Car Guys Discussion'

Mine with the drag tires and stock....

They look good in black!!

[myk]

Dem Buicks are fast.  A classic Charger would have to be putting down some serious power if it even hoped to keep up with a stock Turbo Buick; otherwise, it wouldn't be pretty...

[Blacknight]

Yea i am a old member was on the old site. That 68 charger was the first mopar i ever owned. I sold it years ago to buy my house. I do miss that car it turned out nice i wonder what ever happen to it. It went to oklahoma maybe someone here knows. Hey tea your car looks great i love the black gn. Dax 

[Cooter]

lemme see, a 3.8 liter engine that is maxed out making what? Lke 300-350 HP  boosted?



Lemme try and max out a 440 with boost. Apples to apples, that's like a 1100 HP 440....No comparison when BOTH engines are maxed out like that little 3.8 is....

[Troy]

lemme see, a 3.8 liter engine that is maxed out making what? Lke 300-350 HP  boosted?



Lemme try and max out a 440 with boost. Apples to apples, that's like a 1100 HP 440....No comparison when BOTH engines are maxed out like that little 3.8 is....

That stock 3.8 isn't maxed out at all.

Stock for stock the GN is faster than most all 440 powered musclecars I believe. Throw some very minor modifications at it and it really flies. Throw a lot of money at it and things get crazy!

Troy

[GOTWING]

i purchased a blue 86 Buick T-type Regal 3.8 sfi intercooled turbo in 1989 took it to the track, turned 13.88 @ 99mph in dead stock trim with nice cool weather. I got it in the 12:40's for under $700 ( included nos ) It's the one on cars in barns.

[Cooter]

That stock 3.8 isn't maxed out at all.


Troy

I beg to differ. I've worked on a few Gn's and those little 3.8 liter engines are making some serious power per C.I.  Like I said, a 440 of the same power level would be insanely powerful.

[red71]

I've got both. The Charger is a factory 6pack car with a 4 speed and 4:10 rear. The Buick is a 40,000 original. This is the second GN I have owned over the years. My first GN I used to race on a regular basis. It was basically stock with only a few modest mods. I had a chip, adjustable waste gate, Borla exhaust, high pressure fuel pump, 160 deg thermostat and a K&N filter and that car would run 13.5 all day long. My Charger is basically stock as well. The only mods are headers and electronic ignition. I'll admit I am not the best racer when it comes to a 4 speed, and on a good day when I don't fry the tires I'll get 13-13.5 in the quarter mile easy. I'm sure a better driver could do much better and I don't doubt the car is capable of faster ET's. But when I comes down to it, I would never get rid of my Charger. I have had it since 1986. I would recommend you think long and hard about selling your car for a Buick. I would be willing to bet that as soon as its gone, you'll miss it and regret selling it. If a Turbo Buick is what you really want though, go for it. They are a hell of a lot of fun to drive, and they are holding their value well. If you could however, I would recommend owning both!

[69 OUR/TEA]

lemme see, a 3.8 liter engine that is maxed out making what? Lke 300-350 HP  boosted?



Lemme try and max out a 440 with boost. Apples to apples, that's like a 1100 HP 440....No comparison when BOTH engines are maxed out like that little 3.8 is....

300-350 maxed out?? Not even close!Did you see the second youtube vid I posted? That car is a stock production block 3.8 , the car with driver was 3,800lbs, it went 138 mph,get the rear wheel HP slide chart,computer software program,etc,and do the calculation to see what it's making at the rear tires.Nevermind at the motor.

[69 OUR/TEA]

I've got both. The Charger is a factory 6pack car with a 4 speed and 4:10 rear. The Buick is a 40,000 original. This is the second GN I have owned over the years. My first GN I used to race on a regular basis. It was basically stock with only a few modest mods. I had a chip, adjustable waste gate, Borla exhaust, high pressure fuel pump, 160 deg thermostat and a K&N filter and that car would run 13.5 all day long. My Charger is basically stock as well. The only mods are headers and electronic ignition. I'll admit I am not the best racer when it comes to a 4 speed, and on a good day when I don't fry the tires I'll get 13-13.5 in the quarter mile easy. I'm sure a better driver could do much better and I don't doubt the car is capable of faster ET's. But when I comes down to it, I would never get rid of my Charger. I have had it since 1986. I would recommend you think long and hard about selling your car for a Buick. I would be willing to bet that as soon as its gone, you'll miss it and regret selling it. If a Turbo Buick is what you really want though, go for it. They are a hell of a lot of fun to drive, and they are holding their value well. If you could however, I would recommend owning both!

My car when I got it was a bone stock car,did the same mods as you describe,K+N filter($49),adj fuel reg($99),intank pump($110),race chip @19lbs of boost($50),dump tube in place of cat($50) for a total of $ 358(had a set of slicks already MT ET 26x8.5) Launched off e-brake @ 12lbs of boost, went 12.47 @109mph with a 1.69 sixty foot.Then when I changed the turbo for alittle bigger one,stock appearing,it went 12.20's @112mph with 1.66 sixty foots.All my friends cars were in the same area for times with the similar mods.

[turbobitt]

Don't underestimate a stock block 3.8 Buick. I would think that compared to a stock RB block, they would reach there HP limitations at about the same HP level.

It has always been a dream of mine to take what I learned from my Turbo Buick and Build an ultimate turbo 572 Hemi. By my best estimate, I think I could make a conservative 2000+ HP in streetable form.

Allan G.

[gtx6970]

Good friend of mine has an 86 or 87 T-type.

car will run LOW 11's all day long. then drive home with the A/C on and the radio cranked
He thinks if he really jumps the boost up he can tap high 10's with some good slicks  instead of the drag radials

100% stock block and heads, He just added some  fuel system, exhaust and a turbo upgrades and water/alcohol injection

[red71]

There is one thing to remember also if you buy a Turbo Buick, and that is they love cold weather. Hot summers seem to be a power killer for GN's.

[Cooter]

lemme see, a 3.8 liter engine that is maxed out making what? Lke 300-350 HP  boosted?

300-350 maxed out?? Not even close!

I always talk in terms of reliability, NOT ready to just blow the hell up powerful. By "Maxed out" I meant reliable power. Sure, I've seen a "Street" Hemi make 2500 HP for about three seconds. That doesn't count IMO...

[Cooter]

I think I could make a conservative 2000+ HP in streetable form.

Allan G.

"Streetable" is a relative term. By MY definition, The term Streetable means you don't do it for four seconds and put it back on the trailer, or drive it for some 50 mile sanctioned cruise just to be able to "Call" it a "Street car".

You have to idle in traffic with the tune up set on kill, WITHOUT loading up with raw fuel, has to get some realm of reality as far as decent fuel mileage, has to Keep it's cool, has to pass State insp./Smog laws (Depending on where you live), etc.

We have a few here that run in the tens, but they are NOT street cars...All I was saying is that if a 231 C.I. engine is making say 900 HP, the a 440 C.I. engine making the same power per C.I., should be in the what? 1900 HP range? I don't see either one being very REAL WORLD streetable.

[Indygenerallee]

I always wanted one I thought they always looked pretty cool thats about the only GM car I like.

[SRT-440]

Mine has a stock motor that was rebuilt back in '05 to stock specs...runs with alky injection and 26#'s of boost...murders my 71 Dart with a warmed over 440. Not to mention it will spin the tires at 60 mph. I wouldn't want to push my motor anymore than it already is...but the cam could be swapped, head work and other stuff and it would be close to 650hp. I don't have a stock turbo tho...I have a 70mm that can make up to 800hp before it starts running out of breath.
You don't even want to hear about a Stage II motor.

With that being said, yes a big block under boost or nitrous can make as much or more...but...the GN is already setup for big power.

[turbobitt]

My response to above with regards to my 8 second Turbo Buick,

to idle in traffic with the tune up set on kill, WITHOUT loading up with raw fuel, Meets requirment
has to get some realm of reality as far as decent fuel mileage, Meets requirment
has to Keep it's cool, has to pass State insp./Smog laws (Depending on where you live), etc. Meets requirment

Most people don't understand fuel injected and boosted cars until they actually own one.

Allan G.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Exactly,when not under boost,my car is back down to a moderate 8:1 CR.

Cooter is right about one thing though,Allan,your car is making what, 4 HP plus per cube,the equivalent 440 would be making 1,760 HP by that ratio.

Sorry to hijack your thread Blacknight,as I said,if you do start looking for one and need some help or advice when you find one,feel free to contact me.Yes,I agree with most,try everything to keep the Charger and also get a TR !
Another tidbit,the T-types are alittle less money to pick one up,and are lighter by a couple hundred lbs.They had aluminum bumper supports vs.steel on the GN's,alot of them had the aluminum rear brake drums,and the obvious,aluminum rims.In 1997 I bought an 87 Turbo T Regal to drive daily,weighed it at the track,and it was 220 lbs less than my GN.
Where did it go ? I sold it to buy my B5 69 R/T Charger. 

[Ghoste]

What are we debating here though?  Stock 440 verus stock 3.8?  Modded 3.8 versus stock 440?  Maxed 440 versus stock 3.8?  Both engines with same mods applied?

[69 OUR/TEA]

Blacknight was inquiring because it appears he is getting into them,looks like he wants one,wanted to know how they do when modified,and asked if anyone has ever raced one.Comments of people with experience of know people with them giving their findings.
I gave my examples from pretty much stock to a couple very modified to see the potential and see where he has options to go with one.

[Ghoste]

Thats what I thought at the beginning but it was the spiral that lost me. haha

[69 OUR/TEA]

Just wanted to let know,as we all would help out eachother here with Chargers,his interest being in one of those I can offer him whatever help I can if he starts searching for one.

[Blacknight]

Hey thanks for all of the advice i am getting a turbo t type so that is good news to know they are lighter than a grand national. I think it will be a fun car because i can drive it to the track and drive home with no problem. You guys are great. Thanks for the offers to help i will take you up on that. Dax

[autodynamics]

I actually own both 69 charger and a 87 gn
Awesome cars the grand national value can only go up in the near future
Bad ass

[Ghoste]

They should only go up.  They've been stalled for prices since the bubble burst but that just makes it the right time to buy.

[69 OUR/TEA]

So there are numerous members here that own GN's and TTA's ?

[SRT-440]

So far, including myself..there are 3-4 of us that own one. 

[autodynamics]

I have had both gn and tta
However the tta is not the same a the gn in all reguards it's a better car
Braking Guages brakes etc
But the black gn darth vader looking speaks bad ass
The tta is all dressed in white unnoticed the layman

IMO the tta have there place but the gn is the muscle car of the two
I sold my tta after I owned it (t top cloth car) I was in amused from it
So Off it went to another home that wanted it

My gn has 30k and is flawless and smells new still

[69 OUR/TEA]

There are 3 TTA's here right now that I know of, 68bullitcharger,kidsixpack,and myself.

[1974dodgecharger]

Either way how you look at it they are apples to oranges period!!!!! if we are talking power in any car ok, lets bring in the last gen supra in here with its turbo alas fast and furious  all you had to do on that one was get exhaust, intake, and viola you got 450hp on tap on a 3L engine and if you wanted to get a little crazy buy a bigger turbo and you can crank that up with a new camshaft to 800HP daily driver and YES its been.

Point is the argument is mute between the GN and charger...Ill take the charger anyday.

My response to above with regards to my 8 second Turbo Buick,

to idle in traffic with the tune up set on kill, WITHOUT loading up with raw fuel, Meets requirment
has to get some realm of reality as far as decent fuel mileage, Meets requirment
has to Keep it's cool, has to pass State insp./Smog laws (Depending on where you live), etc. Meets requirment

Most people don't understand fuel injected and boosted cars until they actually own one.

Allan G.