Possible Superbird Project

[hotrod98]

I purchased a 70 Roadrunner this week that would make an ideal Superbird clone. I's a 383 (now 440), 4 speed, dana, bench seat car. I have a perfect set of buckets for the car. It has had partial quarters installed and I plan to replace them with full quarters. Other than that it's a solid southern car.
Yes, it's an RM21 post car but that can be altered to look more correct for a Superbird clone.

Unfortunately, I sold many of my nice clone project parts including my original Superbird wing...dangit. I still have a bird hood that Tom Ferry built and a set of rust free Coronet fenders so I'm tempted to order the rest of the stuff and build a clone.

Here's what I'm thinking and I'm ready for the onslaught of responses that I'm sure to get.

My idea is to make a clone of the Black Ice car using the air grabber hood and six pack setup that Tom installed on the Black Ice car. Then, I would return the Black Ice car to all original as an FY1 car. Then later when the time comes to sell the car, it will be correct and more desirable to most buyers and I could carry on the Black Ice legacy with the clone. I'll have less than 20K in the finished car. This would give me the freedom to do things with the clone that I would never do with the original. The cool part is the fact that the donor car is a running, driving, 440, 4 speed with the dana rear just like the Black Ice car.

This is just a thought at this point. I haven't decided and I plan to drive the Roadrunner for a while until I've decided on a direction.

Since the Roadrunner is a real FE5 red car, the alternative is to leave the Black Ice car as is and build the clone and paint it red. I love red Superbirds. There was a clone at the Wingcar meet in Branson that I tried to buy. I can't find a pic of it but I'll see if I can find one and post it.

[hotrod98]

Another pic

[FJ5WING]

  if youre building a clone why kill a RR to do it, Im sure you couldve picked up a Satellite much cheaper.

[BigBlockSam]

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wingcar]

Just my opinion, but I would leave it a RoadRunner as it looks to be in great shape.  Why screw it up when you could enjoy it as is?  Plus, it's a post car......you will get grief about it since it will never look like a "real" Superbird.   Drive the RoadRunner and enjoy it while you look for a Satellite or a RoadRunner in lessor condition to convert into a Superbird.   But, it's your car and your time and money....

[hotrod98]

I can't buy a rust free Satellite for what I paid for this car. In fact, I couldn't buy a 440, a 4 speed setup and a dana rear for what I paid for this car. Besides, with the Satellite, the dash and the taillights are wrong and it would probably have the small rear diff. It would be much, much more expensive parting a Satellite together to build a bird.
Also, it's not difficult to convert this car to a hardtop, I've done it before.

[moparstuart]

   red branson car    ,    sue used to have a real SB that
t  had been  paint red   she sold it to buy her daytona

[hotrod98]

That's the one. He wouldn't sell it to me. Thanks.

[hotrod98]

Is this Sue's red Superbird?

[kab69440]

If you're removing the quarter windows, PLEASE let me know. I've been hunting a complete post car setup for some time.

[BigBlockSam]

go wild on this superbird clone . modern suspension, modern drivetrain and air conditioning . it'll be like driving a new car .

[A383Wing]

go wild on this superbird clone . modern suspension, modern drivetrain and air conditioning . it'll be like driving a new car .

he will never get it done if he has to do all that stuff to it..

at least I will never see it done in my lifetime

Bryan

[RallyeMike]

You have two decent cars and your plan is to tear them both down and redo them so you can make one look like the other one?

My input: The Black Ice car has some great history and should be left alone. Sell the FE5 car to someone who will enjoy it, take the profit and build your dream SB clone out of something needing to be restored.

[BigBlockSam]

he will never get it done if he has to do all that stuff to it..

at least I will never see it done in my lifetime

Bryan

what are you saying, that Larry is a little slow 

[A383Wing]

he will never get it done if he has to do all that stuff to it..

at least I will never see it done in my lifetime

Bryan

what are you saying, that Larry is a little slow 

I would never say that....(out loud, anyways)

Bryan

[dads_69]

I vote Wing It! Let the bird fly...haha

[hotrod98]

Right now I have a 70 Challenger RT SE plum crazy car that is ready for paint, a 70 Cuda racecar project and my unfinished 71 Cuda project. I really need one more project to make it an even four...
What I really need to do is stop working on customer's cars and work on my own stuff.

As for the Black Ice history, I do agree. I really don't want to change that. It's a rust free, real Superbird but it doesn't have the original engine, 4 speed or hood. Not sure where it stands in value compared to it being restored back to original look. I guess the car wil be worth more as the Black Ice car.

The important part of the entire equation is the fact that at some point I may have to sell the car to cover the cost of care for my wife who has Alzheimer's. I love the look of the Black Ice car and that's why I had considered building a clone that looked like it. The 20K that I will have in the clone is much, much less than what I will get from the real Superbird.

I appreciate all of the advice but using a Satellite or something that needs to be restored is not a good option for buildng a Superbird clone in my opinion. A solid Roadrunner that needs very little is the perfect candidate. Time is money. The last rust free 70 Satellite that I saw went for over 8 grand. I bought this car for much less and I don't have to swap a dash or taillights or weld up a bunch of holes where the moldings were. This car doesn't need a total resto. In case you didn't know, I'm the guy that used a real triple black R/T SE Charger to build a Daytona clone and I have no regrets. I kept all of the original parts so that someone could return it back to all original but the new owner wasn't interested in buying the parts. If I convert this car, I'll save everything for the same reason.

[BigBlockSam]

I guess the car wil be worth more as the Black Ice car.

i don't think so . i think a more original car would be worth more . plus your market of people to sell the car to would be wider. 

[Hemi Runner]

I'm nobody and my opinion doesn't mean anything.... but I agree. That black ice rock band stuff doesn't mean anything to me. If I owned it, it'd be sporting drag radials and a twin turbo hemi..... oh wait, that's the one I'm building....out of a real B5 blue airgrabber hood numbers matching 383 and 727 auto roadrunner.....

[Golden-Arm]

there's plenty of "stock" birds out there. yours has history. leave it black, you'll find a buyer when the time comes.

as for the runner, do what ya want. it's just a 383 road runner. it's not like anything you do, cant be undone. besides, i bet a good cloned bird will still be worth more than a restored 383 runner. right?

[hotrod98]

Let's just say that I offered the guy in Branson much more for the red clone than I would have ever paid for a roadrunner and his car was actually a Satellite. And, I think it still had the Satellite dash. This roadrunner restored would probably bring 25K on a good day. As a very nicely done Superbird clone it would probably bring 35K. I don't think you could buy a restorable real bird for less than 70K.

[petercharger]

Leave it and find a sat

[hotrod98]

I haven't seen a satellite as nice as this runner for sale in many years. They're much more rare.
I have no intentions of selling this car so I would have to spend another ten grand or more for a rust free satellite. Makes no sense.
They built Superbirds from Roadrunners so why shouldn't I? 

[A383Wing]

will ya just get busy on it so I can see it done?

Bryan

[Troy]

From a guy with too many projects and not enough time... you have two really nice, drivable cars there - enjoy them! Work on your projects if you feel like you must do something in the shop. I'm personally a huge fan of the 70 Roadrunners and would love to find an affordable one *that I don't have to work on*. On the Superbird, with the parts and labor involved would you really make that much more money off the car if you put it back to stock? Would you make enough to cover putting it back to stock AND cloning the RR into a bird? If not, from a money perspective, it's a losing proposition. Save your money in case you need it for your wife's care. Or, use your time to work on (paying) customer cars. Or flip the RR. I just don't see how spending another big pile of money will really net you that much more.

If the goal is less about money and more about having a less rare car then I'd just sell the Superbird "as is" and build your clone. That's the primary reason I'm not too keen on chasing down ultra-rare cars (even though I love them). I drive too much and I'd destroy the value of one way too quickly. Give me base models with upgrades!

Troy

[moparstuart]

Larry here is my Post car , it was my brothers and when he passed away it became mine .
My car is vit C  but he had a Red car like yours and the Air grabber hood off it ended up on this car . 

[RallyeMike]

Besides the cool Black Ice car history, putting it back to stock isnt going to increase its value much more than you put into it. It just doesnt seems like time or $$ well spent to me to do anything but maintain it, and sell it when you are ready.

I'm not opposed to converting a RR to a Bird, it just personnally does not make sense in my world to convert a decent, completed car even if you got it for free. Sell it and save another derilict. There are still plenty of reasonably solid RRs available to work with.

[WilliesDaytona]

If I were in your shoes, I wouldnt change a thing on the Black Ice car, build a clone of the Black Ice car and when or if time to sell comes you can sell the original Black Ice and keep cruising in the clone, the cost of taking the cars history away, by restoring it, will never be equalled when time comes to sell... After the 3rd or 4th Original Superbird at a show I get Bored, its like looking at new Challengers at the dealership......

[hotrod98]

Stu...I need that hood...lol  I hope you get to restore that car some day.

As for the Superbird conversion, I have plenty of time to make my decision. There are other projects ahead of it that need to be completed.
I'm trying to buy a 70 limelight runner, 4 speed, 383, bucket seat car. It would actually be a better candidate since it's a hardtop. It's a complete running, driving car like this one and it's rust free.


As for looking at new Challengers, I like looking at mine.

[moparstuart]

Stu...I need that hood...lol  I hope you get to restore that car some day.

As for the Superbird conversion, I have plenty of time to make my decision. There are other projects ahead of it that need to be completed.
I'm trying to buy a 70 limelight runner, 4 speed, 383, bucket seat car. It would actually be a better candidate since it's a hardtop. It's a complete running, driving car like this one and it's rust free.


As for looking at new Challengers, I like looking at mine.

if you get the lime light car , I will trade you  for it  how nice is it i may trade you two cars for it

[hotrod98]

If I buy the limelight car, I might sell the red one. I've been trying to buy the green one for several years. He's had the car since it was almost new.

[moparstuart]

If I buy the limelight car, I might sell the red one. I've been trying to buy the green one for several years. He's had the car since it was almost new.

hurry up and get it and dont get attached to it , we will make a deal   

[69bronzeT5]

My input: The Black Ice car has some great history and should be left alone. Sell the FE5 car to someone who will enjoy it, take the profit and build your dream SB clone out of something needing to be restored.

[pettybird]

leave the car a post, make it a 'bird and paint it up like the Ramo car that won the Vulcan 200.

[Aero426]

leave the car a post, make it a 'bird and paint it up like the Ramo car that won the Vulcan 200.

[moparstuart]

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=36392


  nice satelite

[hotrod98]

Okay...I've done the math and if someone out there will give me 20K for my runner, I'll have enough to get the Satellite to the same condition as the runner. I'll need a fresh 440, radiator, engine harness, headers, a complete 4-speed setup, the 4 speed hump, the dana driveshaft, the Rallye dash, the correct taillights, the dana rear end, the correct column, transporter costs and the labor to have one of my guys do the work.
I'll save a runner and I can then start converting the Satellite into a bird.

PM me for the address so you can send me the money for the Runner. I really need the money pretty quick before the guy sells the Satellite.

[BigBlockSam]

  cut your runner up 

[gtx6970]

did I read this right, you want to make a clone of the car you have 'black ice' yet the clone isn't going to be black ?

[hotrod98]

Not correct. When I bought the Black Ice car, Tom was in the process of returning it back to FY1 yellow and was going to remove his custom air grabber hood, six pack setup, custom front spoiler and rims and use them on a clone that he was planning to build. You got it...a Black Ice clone.
That way he could drive the hell out of it without worrying about tearing up a real bird. And, have much less money tied up in it.
If the car would bring more as the Black Ice car then I'm all for that. I really don't give a damn about originality. The reason that I bought the car is beause it was much cooler than a stock bird. People go nuts over this car everywhere I go. I had a guy offer me a 100K for the car a year and a half ago and I turned it down. I just wasn't ready to let it go and I'm still not ready. I was just thinkng that if I built the clone using the custom parts from the Black Ice car then it might make it easier to let go.
Then again, I might build a red clone because the runner is a real red runner.

Make sense?

[Old Moparz]

If this project were mine, I'd be okay with using a non original Road Runner as the base car for a Superbird, but the body work involved with removing the posts would bother me since I couldn't do that work myself. It probably wouldn't bug me to leave them there. Mostly though, I love the '70 RR look so I might have a tough time for that reason.

The Daytona replica I've been collecting dust with, is a '68 Charger as the base car. I hate the idea of removing a nice tail light panel, but the round lights don't do anything for me to begin with. Installing a window plug may not ever happen since I never liked them as much as the stock, recessed window. Would it be correct to have a Daytona like this? I don't care. 

You have to work with what you have at times & not worry about what people say or think. I'm sure I'll have many people tell me that I should sell the '68, get a '69, then do the plug to be correct. I looked for a '69 for a long time & found nothing but junk for a lot more than what I paid for the nice, rust free, '68 I finally got. Even if you go the route of selling one to get the other to appease the masses, the reality is, I bet it would set your time frame back so far you'd lose interest.

It could never happen in one weekend either like people think. More than likely it'll be a minimum of one year from the time you advertise the RR, to the time you own the replacement. 

[DonC1]

'I'll need a fresh 440, radiator, engine harness, headers, a complete 4-speed setup, the 4 speed hump, the dana driveshaft, the Rallye dash, the correct taillights, the dana rear end, the correct column, transporter costs and the labor to have one of my guys do the work'

Life is short - I say convert the runner.

[moparstuart]

'I'll need a fresh 440, radiator, engine harness, headers, a complete 4-speed setup, the 4 speed hump, the dana driveshaft, the Rallye dash, the correct taillights, the dana rear end, the correct column, transporter costs and the labor to have one of my guys do the work'

Life is short - I say convert the runner.

if you used a 5 or 6 speed manual you dont need the 4 speed hump   

[hotrod98]

Converting a post car to a hardtop is very easy.
I've been thinking that since I don't plan to convert the back glass, I might just leave the post in place. I'm certainly not going to try to pass the car off as the real deal. I had forgotten about some Superbird parts that I have already. I still have the nose that DonC mad for me to use the small headlamps in the grille opening. I have the fender extensions, the fender scoops and a set of plain steel z-braces.  I just sold a fiberglass latchtray that I should have kept. I had kept it to use as a template for makng a steel version but I could just use the steel one off of my bird to make a copy.
This will be more of a hotrod bird so to speak.
I do worry about getting enough air through the radiator with the headlamps in the grille opening. Might have to create an opening using the front spoiler to direct air in.
Or...I might just abandon this project and get back onto my 71 Cuda project. So much to do, so little time left...

[Ram07]

Is it just me, or why would you wreck a car like that to make a clone? Always wanted a charger...still looking....In the mean time I would give my left nut for that car....why tear it apart?

[A383Wing]

because it's his car and that's what he wants to do with it

Bryan

[hotrod98]

Is it just me, or why would you wreck a car like that to make a clone? Always wanted a charger...still looking....In the mean time I would give my left nut for that car....why tear it apart?

Okay.  I'll sell you the car. Make me an offer that I can't refuse. In fact... I'll sell you any car that I own. I'll even sell you the Black Ice car if you want it.

You obviously haven't seen the wingcars that I've built. I don't think I've ever had anyone refer to them as wrecks. I build some of the most beautiful musclecars in the world. I've brought total rust buckets back from the dead. I've built cars that in my opinion should have stayed down for the count. But some people have a strong sentimental attachment to their cars so I help them.

There are people out there letting nice musclecars rust to the ground because they intend to restore them some day. My cars stay inside out of the weather. I treat them all with dignity, knowing that some day they will sit in someone else's garage or backyard such as the case may be. My biggest pet peave is people that buy nice Mopars and they don't even own a garage.

I currently own 12 Mopars and they are all stored safely inside. Some restored, some original and some waiting their turn for restoration. I think I'm doing my part to reserve the Mopar heritage.

Oh, and theres no cutting involved in turning a runner into a bird. You can turn it right back into a runner at any point although I'm not sure why anyone would do that.

Now, what kind of price where you thinking about on the 70 post car?

[hatersaurusrex]

I believe he did make you an offer.  One left nut for one '70 RoadRunner.

[Old Moparz]

I believe he did make you an offer.  One left nut for one '70 RoadRunner.

You may want to consider his offer, a third nut might make a great conversation piece.

[hotrod98]

So far, the only body parts that have been traded for things of great value in my life have been female body parts...and those, I was only allowed to play with for a short period of time...

[70Sbird]

So far, the only body parts that have been traded for things of great value in my life have been female body parts...and those, I was only allowed to play with for a short period of time...

truest sentance I've read in the internet in quite some time!!!

[moparstuart]

     now we know where all larry nice cars go   

[Ram07]

Is it just me, or why would you wreck a car like that to make a clone? Always wanted a charger...still looking....In the mean time I would give my left nut for that car....why tear it apart?

Okay.  I'll sell you the car. Make me an offer that I can't refuse. In fact... I'll sell you any car that I own. I'll even sell you the Black Ice car if you want it.

You obviously haven't seen the wingcars that I've built. I don't think I've ever had anyone refer to them as wrecks. I build some of the most beautiful musclecars in the world. I've brought total rust buckets back from the dead. I've built cars that in my opinion should have stayed down for the count. But some people have a strong sentimental attachment to their cars so I help them.

There are people out there letting nice musclecars rust to the ground because they intend to restore them some day. My cars stay inside out of the weather. I treat them all with dignity, knowing that some day they will sit in someone else's garage or backyard such as the case may be. My biggest pet peave is people that buy nice Mopars and they don't even own a garage.

I currently own 12 Mopars and they are all stored safely inside. Some restored, some original and some waiting their turn for restoration. I think I'm doing my part to reserve the Mopar heritage.

Oh, and theres no cutting involved in turning a runner into a bird. You can turn it right back into a runner at any point although I'm not sure why anyone would do that.

Now, what kind of price where you thinking about on the 70 post car?

No offence intended....would love to buy one off of ya...have 20 k saved up right now...but would have to include shipping to Timmins...about 500 miles north of Toronto.
Sorry again...

You know...I've never seen a Suprbird...but, I can remember, one day, way back when...in the 80's....I saw a Daytona...must have been a fake...it was beat up, blue....Its gotta be here somewhere..

[Ram07]

Sorry for typos...just finished 7, 12 hr night shifts...it's hot...I have beer....so... !

[moparstuart]

Is it just me, or why would you wreck a car like that to make a clone? Always wanted a charger...still looking....In the mean time I would give my left nut for that car....why tear it apart?

Okay.  I'll sell you the car. Make me an offer that I can't refuse. In fact... I'll sell you any car that I own. I'll even sell you the Black Ice car if you want it.

You obviously haven't seen the wingcars that I've built. I don't think I've ever had anyone refer to them as wrecks. I build some of the most beautiful musclecars in the world. I've brought total rust buckets back from the dead. I've built cars that in my opinion should have stayed down for the count. But some people have a strong sentimental attachment to their cars so I help them.

There are people out there letting nice musclecars rust to the ground because they intend to restore them some day. My cars stay inside out of the weather. I treat them all with dignity, knowing that some day they will sit in someone else's garage or backyard such as the case may be. My biggest pet peave is people that buy nice Mopars and they don't even own a garage.

I currently own 12 Mopars and they are all stored safely inside. Some restored, some original and some waiting their turn for restoration. I think I'm doing my part to reserve the Mopar heritage.

Oh, and theres no cutting involved in turning a runner into a bird. You can turn it right back into a runner at any point although I'm not sure why anyone would do that.

Now, what kind of price where you thinking about on the 70 post car?

No offence intended....would love to buy one off of ya...have 20 k saved up right now...but would have to include shipping to Timmins...about 500 miles north of Toronto.
Sorry again...

You know...I've never seen a Suprbird...but, I can remember, one day, way back when...in the 80's....I saw a Daytona...must have been a fake...it was beat up, blue....Its gotta be here somewhere..

wasnt there a blue daytona clone 70 R/T parked in a snow bank    found it   ( its a snow cone )   

[Ram07]

Can't me the one....that's not enough snow....would never see a car in a fiels, plus my memory says dark blue 

[hotrod98]

That makes me sick. How can someone do that to a wingcar even if it is a clone.  Have I ever mentioned that I hate snow? 

You know...I really love my Superbird but for some reason I want a Daytona. Anyone want to trade me their rust free non matching numbers real Daytona for a rust free non matching numbers, 440 (with six barrel), 4 speed, dana, real Superbird ? Just thought I would ask.

[moparstuart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8xcKuHdeC0&feature=share   


wow this thing is gorgeous 

[hotrod98]

I agree. I need your hood. 

[moparstuart]

I agree. I need your hood. 

get that green car your talking about . I'll trade you my whole car and a charger too to boot
   

[hotrod98]

I really need to go see the guy again. He might be ready to sell. The problem is, I've bought so many cars lately that I'm getting low on cash. Anyone interested in a super solid 70 Belvedere wagon. Looks like a roadrunner from the front. I even have a runner hood that I could throw in. 

[moparstuart]

I really need to go see the guy again. He might be ready to sell. The problem is, I've bought so many cars lately that I'm getting low on cash. Anyone interested in a super solid 70 Belvedere wagon. Looks like a roadrunner from the front. I even have a runner hood that I could throw in. 

   thats cool  but i dont need another project  i lov those 

[BigBlockSam]

put a wing on that station wagon

[moparstuart]

     


  this one has a nose   

[hotrod98]

I'm really regretting selling my extra Superbird wing.  I've been collecting parts to build my 70 Cuda drag car but now I'm thinking that I might enjoy drag racing my 70 Runner as a Superbird clone. I don't want to cut on the car so it will have to be a small tire car. We have a 1/8th mile 7.0 class at our local drag strip which would be perfect for this car. I have a lightweight SB nose, a SB hood with the fiberglass extension that SuperbirdTom built a few years ago, a set of lightweight aftermarket steel z braces, a set of lightweight fender scoops and a pair of rust free Coronet fenders. I'l leave the back glass stock.

Now all I need is a wing.

Anyone have an extra wing lying around?

[mauve66]

you said something about a Tona, i don't want a SB, so your ahead of the game here

how about a 1st gen with a hollow Tona wing on it for the red bird, with your fabricating skills i'm sure you could get a tona nose onto it
oh yeah, i feel i must disclose that the 1st gen is in 1,000,001 pieces right now (yes, that's how many pieces there in a 1st gen and i have every one of them), but thats even better for you as you aren't stuck with taking apart someone else car to make it your own, you get to put it together the way you want....................

[hotrod98]

I have several cars to choose from to build my next racecar. The problem is, I get bored very easily. It comes with age. I was kind of thinking that I could blend my love for wingcars with my love for dragracing. Since the only SB part that I need is a wing, it wouldn't be difficult to build the car. I can order a fiberglass one from Janek if I need to. I'll be down in Spring, TX in a few months so I could go by and pick it up. I've owned one of his fiberglass wings in the past and they're top notch.
As for ruining a 70 runner, this car has been rear ended at some point in it's life and has had some extensive repairs made and made poorly. There are also some signs of some minor front damage. The drive train is all non matching numbers as well. So, this car is no cream puff by any means. The paint is falling off of it and it needs to be completely redone.
I would build the nose so that it can be removed easily. That way my golf cart would still fit in front of the car in the trailer and it would be much easier to work on the car. I could build a rack to store the nose in. My racecar trailer was previously owned by one of Tim Wilkerson's crew members. He raced in Top Sportsman and has already installed brackets in the trailer that held his front clip while traveling.
Lately, I've been trying to decide whether to use one of my 70 Barracudas or my 68 Roadrunner to build my new racecar.
My son feels that the Barracuda would be a better race car. He might be right. Personally, I think the Superbird clone drag car would be the ultimate attention getter.

[mauve66]

hello, was my offer that transparent??

[hotrod98]

My brother has already asked for first chance to buy it should I let it go.