Windows 8 Preview

[BananaDan]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57445919-292/hits-and-misses-in-windows-8-so-far/

Microsoft is about to take the next paradigm shift in personal computing that rivals the move from the Windows 3.11 "Program Manager" interface to the Windows 95 "Start Menu" interface.  I was at MSFT's technology demo center a few weeks ago in NYC and they are really changing the game this time around.  If they can deliver what they're advertising, it will change the way we interact with computers completely.

Has anyone else looked at or demo'd the beta or release candidates of Win8 yet?

[Fred]

I for one will sit back and watch and bide my time. 

[BigBlackDodge]

Will it run on my Commodore 64?

Will it be released on those huge 5 1/4 floppy disks? (I wonder how many it will take......hmmmmm)




BBD

[DC_1]

Like all there previous launches they will push it out the door only 80% bug free and worry about making refinements with updates.

[John_Kunkel]

If it's like their previous offerings, the "backward compatible" farce will again emerge and you can toss hundreds of dollars worth of software in the trash can.

[A383Wing]

I'm still running Vista on my 4 'puters here.....

I think XP was the best...but nobody listens to me anyway

Bryan

[Tilar]

Will it run on my Commodore 64?

Will it be released on those huge 5 1/4 floppy disks? (I wonder how many it will take......hmmmmm)




BBD

I'm going to guess 60,000. 

[bakerhillpins]

If it's like their previous offerings, the "backward compatible" farce will again emerge and you can toss hundreds of dollars worth of software in the trash can.

This isn't just an MS problem. Recently read about all the problems Android developers are having keeping up with the flavor of the month on that OS.

There is a common misconception that Software is a simple and uncomplicated thing. The more lines of code that exist in a product the greater the complexity of problem is. Security issues are at the forefront of the mess.   

[BB1]

I'm buying an Apple  Screw MS

[Fred]

If it's like their previous offerings, the "backward compatible" farce will again emerge and you can toss hundreds of dollars worth of software in the trash can.

I even had to ditch my perfectly good working and expensive (at the time) printer because it wasn't compatible with windows 7. Of course no sales person tells you this when you're buying your new computer with a newer version of windows. I even rang the company up and they said sorry.  Just bought new colour cartridges for it too.
Plus I had to buy the office home and student software which came free with XP, as well.

[myk]

Still running 'XP here.  There are a few games I can't run but I still see no need to upgrade to Vista or '7, let alone 8 unless they start locking me out of more programs...

[BananaDan]

I run Mac at home as well, but I work with Windows professionally.  I had no issues with Vista, or 7.  The bad press about the "Vista failure" was mostly the fault of third part software and hardware companies writing crappy code for Vista for their software, or drivers for their hardware.  I ran it for 2 years with no failures at all.  XP was a great OS, but is past its day.  It is a big gamble on MSFT's part with this new Metro interface.  If you step back and look at it though, Windows hasn't seen a significant interface change in over 20 years.  It is definitely an interesting time, and computing as we know it may be about to change.  We'll see...

[SnoPro440]

I have always been an early adopter of Microsoft products.  For the most part, they have been very good.  Windows ME was the worst piece of shit operating system ever invented.   I run Win 7 on all my laptops at home and work.  My biggest bitch and complaint has been 64bit driver support.  I need a serial port for most of the work I do and there are virtually zero manufacturers that make a laptop with a serial port.  I can't tell you how frustrating it is to try and copy and  paste a config into a  router, firewall or switch and have my laptop blue screen.

[bakerhillpins]

I need a serial port for most of the work I do and there are virtually zero manufacturers that make a laptop with a serial port. 

The work I do involves lots of stuff that still uses serial ports too but we just use a USB to serial or Enet to serial converter. Not sure why you couldn't just use one of those options??  The prevalence of them and the need to remove $$ from boards is probably why the are no longer part of the motherboards on laptops these days.

[SnoPro440]

I've tried the trendnet brand, the one from Radio shack and one other brand.  They all work fine if you're using 32bit but there seems to be almost zero support for a 64bit driver.  The problem I have is when building a config for a router, switch, ASA or whatever, I can't paste more than 4 lines into the device without my laptop blue screening on me.  And that doesn't work out very good when it's 2:00am and the customer needs the cut-over done in some small change window.  If you have one that works with 64bit, let me know and I'll buy it.

[BigBlackDodge]

Will it run on my Commodore 64?

Will it be released on those huge 5 1/4 floppy disks? (I wonder how many it will take......hmmmmm)




BBD

I'm going to guess 60,000. 

Disks are still available on ebay!

BBD

[hatersaurusrex]

I work for one of the 'Big 3' computer companies, and for over a year I did a job where I basically was the on-site Microsoft liason between my company and MS.  This was during the Win7 launch, and it was pretty much hell.   I can tell you that in terms of philosophy and culture, MS is a great company and have really smart and friendly people, but the stockholders want a new product pushed out every 3 years regardless of whether it's ready or not, and the hardware vendors have input but no direct control.

That said, the biggest problem with going from XP to Vista was that XP was based on a completely different underlying architecture than Vista.    In other words, things like drivers and some older legacy software simply no longer worked on the new platform.    So people who had a 10 year old printer that worked 'just fine' on XP blamed Microsoft for the fact that it no longer worked and not themselves for running ancient gear or the hardware manufacturer for not updating the drivers.   If I were a manufacturer I wouldn't spend development money on my software engineers updating code for stuff that is largely outdated and won't make my company a single penny.   It'd be like asking Dodge to repop parts for the B-bodies - that's up to a 3rd party, not the manufacturer.

Fast forward 3 years,  and all those people who did all the bitching either went out and got new hardware that worked with the Vista codebase, switched to Mac, or said hell with it and stuck with XP.     Win 7 comes out and - lo and behold - it's built on the same codebase as Vista.  That means no bitching from people moving over from Vista, those who went to Mac stayed there, and those who stayed on Win XP are pretty much still there.

So Win8 is based on the same architecture as 7.   99% of you stuff will work, and if you don't dig the new interface there's a 'legacy' mode enabled that will let you use it almost exactly like you did Win7 with some minor UI 'getting-used-tos'.

On the Desktop this means an annoying change for very little benefit, but for the tablet market this should pull MS out of the dark ages and allow them not to get swallowed up by Mac and Android.   The interface is very slick, much like the Windows Phones and runs at light speed.   In time it'll quietly overtake Win7 but trust me when I say you won't have that 'Vista Shock' everyone complained about.    I've tested the consumer and the server versions of the new platform and it's pretty effin slick.


My 2cents.

[John_Kunkel]

At the moment I have no need or desire to move up from XP Pro but the memory limits of XP will probably drive me to 7 or 8 or whatever the current offering is.

[BananaDan]

I've tried the trendnet brand, the one from Radio shack and one other brand.  They all work fine if you're using 32bit but there seems to be almost zero support for a 64bit driver.  The problem I have is when building a config for a router, switch, ASA or whatever, I can't paste more than 4 lines into the device without my laptop blue screening on me.  And that doesn't work out very good when it's 2:00am and the customer needs the cut-over done in some small change window.  If you have one that works with 64bit, let me know and I'll buy it.

I'll ask the NetEng boys at work what they use for serial.  They're USB, I just don't know the brand but I've never heard them bitch so they must work ok.

[BananaDan]

I work for one of the 'Big 3' computer companies, and for over a year I did a job where I basically was the on-site Microsoft liason between my company and MS.  This was during the Win7 launch, and it was pretty much hell.   I can tell you that in terms of philosophy and culture, MS is a great company and have really smart and friendly people, but the stockholders want a new product pushed out every 3 years regardless of whether it's ready or not, and the hardware vendors have input but no direct control.

That said, the biggest problem with going from XP to Vista was that XP was based on a completely different underlying architecture than Vista.    In other words, things like drivers and some older legacy software simply no longer worked on the new platform.    So people who had a 10 year old printer that worked 'just fine' on XP blamed Microsoft for the fact that it no longer worked and not themselves for running ancient gear or the hardware manufacturer for not updating the drivers.   If I were a manufacturer I wouldn't spend development money on my software engineers updating code for stuff that is largely outdated and won't make my company a single penny.   It'd be like asking Dodge to repop parts for the B-bodies - that's up to a 3rd party, not the manufacturer.

Fast forward 3 years,  and all those people who did all the bitching either went out and got new hardware that worked with the Vista codebase, switched to Mac, or said hell with it and stuck with XP.     Win 7 comes out and - lo and behold - it's built on the same codebase as Vista.  That means no bitching from people moving over from Vista, those who went to Mac stayed there, and those who stayed on Win XP are pretty much still there.

So Win8 is based on the same architecture as 7.   99% of you stuff will work, and if you don't dig the new interface there's a 'legacy' mode enabled that will let you use it almost exactly like you did Win7 with some minor UI 'getting-used-tos'.

On the Desktop this means an annoying change for very little benefit, but for the tablet market this should pull MS out of the dark ages and allow them not to get swallowed up by Mac and Android.   The interface is very slick, much like the Windows Phones and runs at light speed.   In time it'll quietly overtake Win7 but trust me when I say you won't have that 'Vista Shock' everyone complained about.    I've tested the consumer and the server versions of the new platform and it's pretty effin slick.


My 2cents.

Well said, nail on the head.

[hatersaurusrex]

I have always been an early adopter of Microsoft products.  For the most part, they have been very good.  Windows ME was the worst piece of shit operating system ever invented.   I run Win 7 on all my laptops at home and work.  My biggest bitch and complaint has been 64bit driver support.  I need a serial port for most of the work I do and there are virtually zero manufacturers that make a laptop with a serial port.  I can't tell you how frustrating it is to try and copy and  paste a config into a  router, firewall or switch and have my laptop blue screen.

SnoPro do you use a newer laptop with a USB->Serial converter, or an older serial laptop with Win7 installed on it?   Once upon a time the converters used to be absolute crap but I bought one about 6 months ago from CompUSA or somewhere right off the shelf (running Win7x64 corporate image on a laptop with no serial ports) and aside from having to fiddle with the COM ports when I plug it in, it works like a champ in Putty.

[SnoPro440]

I have always been an early adopter of Microsoft products.  For the most part, they have been very good.  Windows ME was the worst piece of shit operating system ever invented.   I run Win 7 on all my laptops at home and work.  My biggest bitch and complaint has been 64bit driver support.  I need a serial port for most of the work I do and there are virtually zero manufacturers that make a laptop with a serial port.  I can't tell you how frustrating it is to try and copy and  paste a config into a  router, firewall or switch and have my laptop blue screen.

SnoPro do you use a newer laptop with a USB->Serial converter, or an older serial laptop with Win7 installed on it?   Once upon a time the converters used to be absolute crap but I bought one about 6 months ago from CompUSA or somewhere right off the shelf (running Win7x64 corporate image on a laptop with no serial ports) and aside from having to fiddle with the COM ports when I plug it in, it works like a champ in Putty.

The laptop is a 1 year old HP Elitebook provided to me by my company.  I have to use XP mode to support the drivers for the pc express card that I bought.  It's a USB to 9 pin serial adapter.  For awhile I was running Win7 in development mode so it wouldn't check to see if the drivers were digitally signed.  But, my IT dept frowned on that and made me switch it back.  Their fix was running XP mode.  I don't mind XP mode but if I can find a USB to serial adapter that actually works with laptop, I'll buy it.

[Musicman]

I still have XP... but I'd rather have a MAC

[Ponch ®]

I still have XP... but I'd rather have a MAC

Not to start another Apple vs. PC debate I don't know what the big deal is with Macs. They're overrated and egregiously overpriced. Yes, they are fantastic computers on their own right, the OS is great, they're slick, and the Apple on the back glows. Cute, I get it.

But a 13 inch MacBook Pro with an i5, 4gb of RAM, and a 750 hard drive is what...$1300-1500? Bump it up to a 15 or 17inch with an i7 and youre looking at at least $2K and up. Please.

You can get an Dell or HP with the same specs for just about $600. Hell, if you want horsepower you can get an ASUS or Lenovo with an i7 (3rd gen, Ivy Bridge), 6-8GB of RAM, 750 hard drive, and 1-2GB nvidia graphics card for just about $1100. If Apple even made something like that, it'd easily be in the $3K price range.

Like I said, I'm not necessarily hating on Apple computers. They do have their advantages for some users. I just think, much like a Prius, their appeal is more for the trendy and image conscious, and you pay for it . I've been using Windows computers since...well, I got my first computer (some 13 years ago) and NEVER had any issues with the OS.

[bill440rt]

Yeah but, can a PC do THIS??    

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=6a8Eimr-fm0

[myk]

Not to start another Apple vs. PC debate I don't know what the big deal is with Macs. They're overrated and egregiously overpriced. Yes, they are fantastic computers on their own right, the OS is great, they're slick, and the Apple on the back glows. Cute, I get it.

Agreed.  For $1500 you can get a monster of a PC/laptop that would offer everything it's far more expensive 'Mac counterpart could.  Unfortunately, you would not be as cool at the local Starbucks with a PC based anything...

[Fred]

Not to start another Apple vs. PC debate I don't know what the big deal is with Macs. They're overrated and egregiously overpriced. Yes, they are fantastic computers on their own right, the OS is great, they're slick, and the Apple on the back glows. Cute, I get it.

Agreed.  For $1500 you can get a monster of a PC/laptop that would offer everything it's far more expensive 'Mac counterpart could.  Unfortunately, you would not be as cool at the local Starbucks with a PC based anything...

You may not be as cool but you can buy more coffee's (and keep Starbucks in business) with the spare change.