Intake manifold bolts are damaged

[Dino]

So I decided to do a quick valley pan swap.  That alone should tell you how well it went.   

I disconnected the linkage and removed carb and intake in one go.  The old valley pan had no crossover block and quite the leak it seemed as a few small puddles of oil were on the pan.  Cleaned it all up, didn't find a lick of sealer anywhere so whoever installed this didn't use any form of gasket at all.

I put a nice bead of ultra copper on the block and pressed the new valley pan into place.  Put a thin bead on the top and put the intake back on.  Funny enough the bolts no longer line up so after a half hour of swearing the bolts finally line up but half of them only go in halfway so I pull them back out and notice the thread on the bolts is damaged, nearly all of them.

Sooooo I need new bolts and I need a tap set to fix the threads in the block.

Bolts are 3/8" - 16 x 1.5" correct?  Do autoparts stores cary these or are they special order?  Of course if I buy a tap and die set I should be able to save the original bolts.  Anyone have a set they would recommend?  If not I'm getting the cheap harbor freight one time use only set.   

Damn Murphy is always hanging around my car, whenever I want to fix something it'll break and take a few other things with it.   

[b5blue]

Dino you need to check fitment also for the valley pan. Many will argue but according to Larry Shepard (In his book.) that is why gaskets of different thickness are available for above and below the intake to head area of the pan. As heads and blocks are surfaced or milled the intake manifold to the heads intake mating surface becomes somewhat of a variable tolerance and should be checked. I found this to be true with my six pack intake, what fit with the old heads needed to be changed out after the rebuilds different heads. Too low or high in the hole will miss-aline the mating surfaces and the runners holes along with the bolt holes.  The engine is trying to tell you something...

[bobs66440]

Did you use any gaskets with the pan or just silicone?

[Chryco Psycho]

I start the bolts on one side of the intake & then use a pry bar to press the intake down using the heat riser relief & make sure all the bolts are started easily before I tighten any of them if that helps

[John_Kunkel]

If the heads/block have been milled, intake bolt hole misalignment is likely. 

[ACUDANUT]

Did you use any gaskets with the pan or just silicone?

I have never seen any gaskets that come with a valley pan.  You have to add silicone

[bobs66440]

Did you use any gaskets with the pan or just silicone?

I have never seen any gaskets that come with a valley pan.  You have to add silicone

Really? I use them. They are available from Fel-Pro and others. These come with .030" gaskets.

http://www.totalengineairflow.com/products-page/products/gasket-and-fasteners/mopar1/mopar-intake-gaskets/fel-pro-mopar-intake-gasketvalley-pan/

I used these .015" gaskets on the last build and work quite well where the thicker ones were too thick.

http://www.area51groupllc.com/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/43?osCsid=p7q8hi8dfscnlqbtenlid4hab6

Sometimes because of the above mentioned modifications, the gaskets will not fit, depending on the thickness. Sometimes you can only use the pan and silicone. Sometimes you need the gaskets to take up the space.

[Dino]

I start the bolts on one side of the intake & then use a pry bar to press the intake down using the heat riser relief & make sure all the bolts are started easily before I tighten any of them if that helps

That's exactly what I thought needed to happen to get those bolts in but didn't imagine that would be a good idea.   

I'll have to try that, didn't think the intake manifold would move that much.

I tried without gaskets first and with ultra copper everywhere.  When that didn't work I added the paper gaskets between pan and intake but that didn't seem to change a thing so I took them back out.

To the best of my knowledge I do not believe the heads were milled and the intake is the plain eddy performer, non rpm.  I have my old '71 only intake but the inside looks a bit flaky.

So if I get a few new bolts and fix the threads inthe block I will still need to use the pry bar?  Why can't any of this stuff ever be easy! 

[bobs66440]

Before you install it again using sealer, test fit it by setting the dry pan gasket on there then the intake on top. run a few of the 1/4" rail bolts in to hold it in place. Look in the holes and see how they line up. Hand thread a couple of bolts in one side then look in the other side to see how the holes are oriented. Then you can build it up (or down) with gaskets to fill the space and align the holes properly. As mentioned, some compression may be needed to get them to align, but not too much. Some guys fit the intake without the pan or gaskets and then measure the space with a feeler gauge between the intake and heads to determine what's needed.

Also, if they are stock heads, put some sealer or silicone on the threads of the bolts. The holes go into oil passages in the heads and will most likely seep oil out if you don't.

[Dino]

Before you install it again using sealer, test fit it by setting the dry pan gasket on there then the intake on top. run a few of the 1/4" rail bolts in to hold it in place. Look in the holes and see how they line up. Hand thread a couple of bolts in one side then look in the other side to see how the holes are oriented. Then you can build it up (or down) with gaskets to fill the space and align the holes properly. As mentioned, some compression may be needed to get them to align, but not too much. Some guys fit the intake without the pan or gaskets and then measure the space with a feeler gauge between the intake and heads to determine what's needed.

Also, if they are stock heads, put some sealer or silicone on the threads of the bolts. The holes go into oil passages in the heads and will most likely seep oil out if you don't.

Will do Bob, thanks! 

Well that answered my next question, why are the bolts covered in oil?   

My guess is that whoever installed the manifold last had some issues with the bolts and just kept torqueing them.  That and no sealer anywhere made for one leaky pan!

I'll pick up some bolts from one of the autopart stores and a new tap and go to town.

[Dino]

I didn't have any time to play with this all week so today I finally tackled it again.  After cleaning all the old copper gasket stuff off I recut all the threads so the new bolts went in easily.  I dry fitted everything and tried the pry bar trick and it worked great.  A few minutes later the intake was bolted back in place with ultra copper on both sides of the pan and under the rails, didn't seem I needed the paper gaskets that came with the pan.

I removed the carb so I could get better access to the intake manifold bolts.  The threaded studs are on the carb corners but I'm going to move one of them to the inner hole because the nut hits the carb body.  The gasket was toast but luckily I had another in the package when I bought the car.  My question is this, besides the paper gasket there's also a metal gasket or spacer in the pack.  It's plated and looks gold-ish.  What do I do with that one?  Does the paper gasket go on the intake first and then the metal one?  It's about 1/8" thick.

[ODZKing]

Had that on my 73 400.  Several had to be redone ... luckily I have a friend with a tap set and he did it for me.  Went one size up and took the old ones to a place call Hiawatha Fasteners.  You must have a place like that near you.
I told them I wanted one size up.  It was a while ago now, I'm sorry I don't remember the size.  But all worked out fine and torqued down properly in the end.

[Dino]

I was lucky that the threads on the bolts were more damaged than the sleeves.  The new bolts went in better but it was good to clean the threads.

This is the plate I was talking about.  Can anyone tell me if I need to install this between an eddy 1407 and a performer intake?  There was also a plain paper gasket with it.  Oh and the plate has a real flat side and a somewhat rounder one, which side goes where?

[Dino]

Looks like it's an adapter plate.  I guess I don't need to use it then?  Can I use the paper gasket alone or do I need a different kind?  The same type was between carb and manifold when I took it apart.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2732/10002/-1

[oldkimmer]

.............u need a gasket on both sides of that spacer which is actually used when u bolt a square bore carb on that intake as it is a spread bore........kim..........

[Dino]

.............u need a gasket on both sides of that spacer which is actually used when u bolt a square bore carb on that intake as it is a spread bore........kim..........

Ah, I bolted the carb on yesterday and used the paper gasket only as it was before.  Should I add the spacer and another gasket or leave as is?  The intake is advertised as square/spread bore.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2191/

[firefighter3931]

.............u need a gasket on both sides of that spacer which is actually used when u bolt a square bore carb on that intake as it is a spread bore........kim..........

  You need a paper gasket on both sides of the adapter or you will have a vacuum leak. 


Ron

[Dino]

Hmm when I removed the carb there was only a paper gasket.  I found it a bit odd that it overlapped so much of the intake but I guess that's fine with a square bore carb.  I'll get a second gasket and put the adapter plate on.  It was in a box, still in shrinkwrap, I wonder why they didn't put it on in the first place.

Do I need to do anything to the gaskets themselves or install dry?

Thanks for the help once more gentlemen.   

[Dino]

I found two more gaskets.  I now have one metal spacer that has a big square hole.  Two gaskets just like that with one big hole and one gasket with 4 holes.  I know the latter supposedly is better for low end torque and seeing this is a cruiser, that's what I want.  Will it actually do anything if I use it or are the big hole gaskets fine?  I only have one with 4 holes so where would it go?  Carb or intake side?