Freeze 12 refrigerant

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Has anyone put Freeze 12 in their a/c system that already has R 12 in the system? Supposedly you can "mix" it without any problems.

Thanks!

[bill440rt]

I'd like to know if there's a compatible alternative to R12.
Just took my '70 out for this year's maiden voyage recently, tried the A/C & it blew warm. Time for a recharge. Not sure if I can find anyone in my area with R12. 

[A383Wing]

you can convert to 134a, but it will not blow as cold as R12 did....we have done conversions without changing hoses or compressors..you just need to change the charge fittings

If ya got a leak, best to find it first, otherwise you will be doing the re-charge again

Bryan

[bill440rt]

Last time the system was charged had to be at least 5 years ago. I don't think it's 100% empty, just a little low.

I've heard that if you convert to R134 you need to change out the dryer & hoses, the R134 molecules are smaller which will seep thru the old style rubber hoses.
Anyone know if there's any truth to that?

[A383Wing]

well, yes & no....the drier I would do just because it's probably got stuff inside it....and yes, the R134a will go through orifices that R12 would not, but we have converted many R12 systems to R134a without changing hoses

Bryan

[chargedcharger]

R134a will eventually leak through hoses that are meant for R12 but it might take a while. Also R134 is far cheaper.

[A383Wing]

well, yea...eventually it will, but if the hoses are in good shape & not cracked, I would not bother with changing them

Again, we do AC work at our shop....the only hoses we changed out were because they were cracked on the outside

Bryan

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Nice thread hijack


Back to my original question....has anyone put Freeze 12 in a system that had R12 existing?

[Cooter]

"Freeze 12" isn't recommended to be "Mixed" with R134a, however, i have "Mixed" it with some VERY old R12.

Worked well. Be careful though, as some cheaper "Suppliers" are supplying 30 LB containers that have "Questionable" stuff labeled as "Freeze 12"...

[bill440rt]

After reading this thread I spent an hour reading up on this Freeze12 stuff. Seems worth looking into.
Recommended usage is to purge remaining R12 from the system, but other sources say it can be mixed in if your system is low. It's also compatible with the mineral oil based lubricants in the A/C system. Cools better than R134 as well, but will not mix with R134. From what I've read R134 also has compatibility issues with the mineral oil based lubricants.
There are other products sold under similar names with flammable gases such as butane or propane mixed in. Scary stuff there. No thank you. Freeze12 did not seem to have those gases mixed in, it "appears" to be a safe product.

I'm now wondering the same as Sixt8, has anyone else put Freeze12 in their system?

[John_Kunkel]

Freeze 12 is a blend that contains 80% R-134a and 20% HCFC-142b. The reason for the 142 is so it will circulate the mineral based oil used in R-12 systems (pure R134 won't circulate the oil). Since it's a blend, the different components will leak off at different rates leaving you with an unbalanced blend that can't just be topped of when it runs low.

Freeze 12's main selling point is that it's supposed to be a "drop in" replacement for R-12 (it isn't).

If you insist on using something other than R-12 you're better off purging the whole system of mineral oil, replace the dryer and charge with R-134 and ester oil.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

John,

I read the make up of Freeze 12 online and decided not to use it. I was able to find R 12 from a local shop and topped off my system with that. I now need to add some oil...I guess...my compressor is making a clanking noise. It was not doing that before I lost all my charge. I lost my charge due to a loose hose fastener. I don't know how to install the mineral oil or where I can buy it. I was told you could buy a small syringe type dispenser and add it into the low pressure side, but I have yet to find it at the parts stores. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Lawrence

[A383Wing]

you will need to discharge the system to add oil charge....if compressor is clanking, it will need to be replaced along with the receiver-drier assembly....

You will also need to probably "flush" the entire system, then add the "correct" amount of oil to each part in the system

Bryan

[Sixt8Chrgr]

you will need to discharge the system to add oil charge....if compressor is clanking, it will need to be replaced along with the receiver-drier assembly....

You will also need to probably "flush" the entire system, then add the "correct" amount of oil to each part in the system

Bryan

Ugh....

[John_Kunkel]

You can add oil without opening the system, it'll be hard to find now but there are cans of R-12 with mineral oil mixed in that can be added by the normal charging process (see link below) or there are also attachments for adding bulk oil via the low-pressure charge port.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/R12-Refrigerant-12-R-12-Oil-Charge-4-oz-can-Mineral-Oil-Charge-CHARGETTE-/400272079383

On rare occasions the addition of a little oil will quiet a rattling compressor but it's probably a goner. It's worth a try to add oil...especially with the cost of R-12.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

The runs down the drag strip turning 5500 may have ruined the compressor.

I am going to try the oil in the low pressure side. I did put R12 in the car from manynyears ago...not sure if it had oil in it or not? The funny thing is that there was a price tag on it from KMart...the price was a whooping $1.27 per can!

[Todd Wilson]

Theres a product called HotSHot that is a good 12 replacement and can be mixed with 12 with no troubles.


Todd

[John_Kunkel]

Hot Shot is another in a long list of so-called drop-in replacements (there is no such thing) for R-12, it is a blend of two other refrigerants and iso-propane...yes, propane; don't smoke around it.

Same problem I mentioned above, any blended ingredients will have different molecule size and the smaller molecules will leak off first leaving you with an unbalanced mixtgure that can't simply be topped off when it runs low.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

I'm glad I used the original R12...probably why I am at 42* cooling temp.

[resq302]

I actually was lucky enough to stock up on about 18 cans of R-12 about 10 years ago when I came across some for $15.  Then I came across a couple more at a garage sale.   

[Todd Wilson]

Hot Shot is another in a long list of so-called drop-in replacements (there is no such thing) for R-12, it is a blend of two other refrigerants and iso-propane...yes, propane; don't smoke around it.

I think its isobutane   and is not flammable at atmospheric pressure and below 212 degrees.  Only at high temps and pressures it can become combustable.  I think you will find the R12 to be very similiar it how it acts as well. It can be mixed but is better to start out with a clean system and use it only in an old R12 system.


Todd