extreamly frustrated.... car wont restart when warm

[Khyron]

OK, i have been chasing this problem for awhile now, and I need help.

When cold the charger runs great, no problems, no hesitation, well starting last year the car would not crank or crank hard when it was running for awhile, after sitting for about an hour it would start right up, we first thought it was the timing, checked the timing, checked the voltage during start, everything seemed fine. replaced the springs in the starter thinking it wasn't advancing right, same problem.

I figured the started was getting heat soaked, so I installed a small dodge Dakota starter and wrapped the headers, same problem.

figured the headers where crap, bough ceramic coated TTI, AND wrapped them, same problem. I just installed another new distributor, same thing...

I'm freaking lost.

[Khyron]

ohhh, she's set at 32 degree advanced. She used to be extreamly happy there!

[ChgrSteve67]

Do you have a carburetor insulator gasket?

[Khyron]

a whoit whatit? it's a holley 850 mechanical. it's a very hard crank, not a fuel issue.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Boiling the fuel wuldnt cause a no crank concern, just a crank-no start.  I'm wondering if the carb is leaking fuel into the engine causeing a hydrolock.

[BigBlockSam]

 

[Khyron]

checked the power to the starter, not running, she sits at 11.64 , so she's getting voltage... while running, she's at 16+ Just bought a 100 amp alt also.

[terrible one]

I'm thinkin you just have too much initial timing. I experienced the same symptoms, felt like the motor had gained compression or something, the starter would have a hard time and was way slower than usual once the engine was up to temp. I just turned the distributor back a hair (CCW I think) and it was a night and day difference.

[Khyron]

I've played with the timing several times, but I can try again.

[Memphis Mopar]

Khyron this is a total shot in the dark because I am a orange juice maker "Tropicana OJ" and not a mechanic. But I had a similar problem.  When firing up my car cold it would run and start great. After running the car for 15 to 20 minutes then shutting off the car it was hell trying to get it started back up. When it cooled down the car would fire back up with no problems.The culprit was a worn spot in my "hot wire" from my battery terminal to my starter.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Hang on, back up..... 11 volts at the starter is not good. Neither is 16+ running. You have electrical problems.

[Dodgecharger74]

check batter voltage while cranking should not drop below 10.5 to 11 volts may be bad battery

[440]

Hang on, back up..... 11 volts at the starter is not good. Neither is 16+ running. You have electrical problems.

Is the battery somewhat swollen from over charging? Sounds like the voltage regulator might be shot thus over charging and killed the battery. 11.6 isn't too bad but 16v would kill the amp meter unless it's bypassed.

[Back N Black]

Have you checked Battery? take it to NAPA and do a load test. I'm thinking 16 volts has fried the battery. 

[ChgrSteve67]

Sorry I thought he was having trouble starting when hot not having trouble cranking the motor over when hot. My bad.

What battery are you using and what is the CCA?
I use a group 27 battery with 850 or more CCA

Sounds like your battety is ready for retirement.
How old is it?

My 2 cents is, Replace the battery then test the charging system.

[Musicman]

As a few others have said... 11 volts under no load conditions is unacceptable

[Khyron]

hmm, battery seemed fine, and I did change it last year, and again, I did just replace the alternator. I will do the tests as requested. maybe the fields on the alt aren't working right? It did this with the old alternator AND the new one.

[Khyron]

I'll buy a new voltage regulator and run more tests... and have the battery tested and replaced as needed.

[MSRacing89]

ohhh, she's set at 32 degree advanced. She used to be extreamly happy there!

You are not locked at 32º are you?

[Khyron]

no, she was at 36... i rolled it back when i started having this issue

[c00nhunterjoe]

He means is your distributor stuck at 32 degrees. Is your advance working properly?

[Khyron]

no, it work free... advance works fine.

[redmist]

Are you 32 TOTAL? or 32 Initial?

[Khyron]

32 total

[resq302]

We had a similar issue with our 70 el camino.  It turned out to be the starter solenoid.  You might want to compare what your readings during a cold start vs. during a hot start and see what the differences are.  Chances are, you might be getting a solenoid heating up which is drawing more current and not causing it to deliver enough voltage to the starter to turn it over fast enough.  OR..... it could be the engine compartments temp is causing a battery that is starting to fail have a cell warp which is causing the drain on the battery when warm but not when it is cold.

Just some thoughts.

[Khyron]

all good thoughts, I have swapped the starter 3 times to eliminate that possibility, and the battery is in the trunk. I sitll have to get the voltage regulator and have the battery tested, will attempt to get that done tomorrow.

[firefighter3931]

Trunk mounted batteries can cause problems if the installation is not properly set up.

-where is the negative wire grounded to ?
-what wire guage are you using ?

It could be as simple as a poor ground or too much resistance due to improperly specced wiring. The problem intensifies with the increased demands of hot restarts. 

I see that your total timing is 32-36* but what is the initial timing ?



Ron

[resq302]

well, if the battery is in the trunk that should eliminate any of the cell warping due to the heat build up of the engine.  However, like Ron said, you have to have a heavy enough battery cable to keep enough voltage to reach the engine for the positive cable.  The longer distance the wire is, the greater the resistance it has.  I would also double check the ground cable at the battery and make sure it has a nice clean connection.  Again, with the neg. cable, you want that to be as short as possible too.

[Khyron]

it's grounded to the frame through a hole in the trunk with a gromet, also it's 2 gauge all the way to the front, It was a battery relocation kit from summit, Im going to go to get new cable today or tomorrow, 1 gauge baby :-)

Ground is maybe 2 foot long.

[BrianShaughnessy]

it's grounded to the frame through a hole in the trunk with a gromet, also it's 2 gauge all the way to the front, It was a battery relocation kit from summit, Im going to go to get new cable today or tomorrow, 1 gauge baby :-)

Ground is maybe 2 foot long.

So to clarify...  it cranks very slow when the engine is hot?    If so it sounds like a bad ground...  old poontiacs had that problem.   Gotta clean all the connection spots and use star lock washers when possible cause they bite in.

How about the ground from frame to the engine block?    Usually there's only a little ground wire from the firewall to the back of the passenger side head / intake manifold because the main ground is from the battery to the driver side head / intake.    With the trunk kit,   that little ground is trying to feed enough juice to run a starter motor unless you upgraded.

[firefighter3931]

it's grounded to the frame through a hole in the trunk with a gromet, also it's 2 gauge all the way to the front, It was a battery relocation kit from summit, Im going to go to get new cable today or tomorrow, 1 gauge baby :-)

Ground is maybe 2 foot long.

The 2 guage positive wire isn't going to cut it. You need 1 guage or 0 guage 

You can use the 2 Guage positive wire as a secondary ground. I'd run that wire from the same frame mounting point that your current ground is mounted to all the way up to the engine block...a secondary ground directly attached to the battery will help. 


Ron

[Khyron]

ok, i'll give that all a try, thanks guys

[c00nhunterjoe]

I believe I used 0000 wire when I put my battery in the trunk. My ground goes from the battery to the wheel house using the existing hole that is in it.  I also added a......hmmmm, I think it was 00 wire as a ground from the engine block to the frame. I have no cranking issues cold or hot. I run a stock starter with heddman headers that actually touch the starter.