5.7 Hemi in a B-body

[ChargerSG]

I have heard about some folks here and there whos putting a 5.7 Hemi(from salavge cars) in great cars and i been thinking about this for awaile(since i will never afford a 426). I have a 5.7 Hemi that i can buy, there is just 2 major things(i figurd out the brackets and oilpan and that) first that computer and all the electrical stuff scare the hell out of me im thinking in change the fuel injection for carb, but is it that simple(only seen one cratemotor with it) anyone know stuff that will work right in? And then is the Tranny problem since the dude dont have any, what will work with it, is like a 727 possible(i know it just to buy a salvage Durango tranny or something)...

[phat69charger]

I haven't read up much on it but here's a link  http://www.thehemi.com/newhemiswap.php I think it's cost effective if your not trying to build a really powerful car like you could using a older big block.

[ChargerSG]

Thanks that was a great link. Im just hooked on getting a Hemi

[694spdRT]

Is the 5.7 Hemi internally or externally balanced?

[Rolling_Thunder]

The computer and Wiring isnt that difficult (I would imagine) - If it is all included and original to the engine it is a pretty much self managed unit and plugs into the engine....     the computer will need 12V power sent to it and you might have some leads you will not use....     

[ChargerSG]

I imagend it myself before a guy told me if you dont have all the original stuff with it(trans, computer, power stearing) it will go bad(or not go at all) since you have to much loose ends in the system(then you have to know what to cut out too) then you have to buy a race tech computer and wiring(wich cost a small fortune) a 70 318 i can handle but a high tech modern motor with fuel injection  is something else, thats why i try to gather soo much info as possible before buying a $2000 motor(and shipping, trans, headers or something and all that you cant build....

But this idea as been in my head awile and i think its my only chanse to get a Hemi for mayby just 5k in all(and allot of work but that dont count ) when a bad crate 426 cost 14k.

[ChargerSG]

Found this 5.7 with a Holley 600 CFM Four-Barrel Carburetor, question is what intake it is...

[phat69charger]

Looks like they call it a M1 intake http://www.mopar.com/muscle/whatshot1002.htm

[ChargerSG]

That was a better site than i did find, thanks. This is getting closer and closer

[deathcharger71]

Looks like they call it a M1 intake http://www.mopar.com/muscle/whatshot1002.htm

for that amount of money you could have one kick ass 360.....

[ChargerSG]

Yeah, but its no Hemi And 4-5k to get a Hemi in your car isent bad

[phat69charger]

If your looking for any type of used car parts check out this site  http://car-part.com/  you can find complete engines with computers there in different price ranges.

[ChargerSG]

Thanks, links is allways great to get...

[Mike DC]

I wonder what it would cost to rig up an old-school A-833 4-speed behind one of those?  I like them better than the modern 5-speeds. 

[ChargerSG]

I think it will be the same as using a A727 and its bolts right up to small block bellhousing had but you have to make a flex plate, and use a spacer between block and trans what i understand from a guy who did it. I will use a 727 or a 4 Speed for mine i think...

[Lightning]

From what one of the mopar magazines had printed is that the bolt pattern for the trans is exactly the same as a 360's....

[ChargerSG]

The hemi crank is 8 bolt instead of 6,but its not the same bolt circle as the old 8 hole, so you have to machine a new flex plate as the guy who did it said..

[ChargerSG]

Looks like they call it a M1 intake http://www.mopar.com/muscle/whatshot1002.htm

I been looking around for M1 intakes and all i find is a preformer 440 intake, is that the same, does anybody knows?

[phat69charger]

Looks like they call it a M1 intake http://www.mopar.com/muscle/whatshot1002.htm

I been looking around for M1 intakes and all i find is a preformer 440 intake, is that the same, does anybody knows?

Looks like holley makes it  http://www.whitetigerimports.com/products.asp?product_id=4609870219

[bull]

You could rig up a belt drive for the distributor if you didn't want the computer involved because the computer runs the ignition on those. I didn't read all those links to see what it says about that. If it were me doing it I'd scuttle all the computerized crap.

[ChargerSG]

Bull thats my plan, to trow that computed stuff out...

[ChargerSG]

A guy told me that the m1 intake is just mopar performances name for there high performance intakes.There are m1 big block,small block, hemi, etc.intakes called m1's, but no a 440 intake won't fit a new hemi. The hemi m1,but its not avalible yet,you can only get it on the crate engines right now. Soo there is some waiting here i can image, since Mopar Performance wants to sell some crate 5.7 with carb first...

[Mike DC]

So do we have any verdict yet?

Is it really possible to use a Gen III Hemi engine, but dump all the electronics and run a conventional distributor & electronic ignition box as if it's a 360?  (Do those new Hemis even have distributors to use at all?  Aren't they all coil-on-plug deals?)

-------------------------------------------------

This would definitely be cool if it worked.  And I'd definitely wanna use a 6.1L Hemi.  That's basically like creating a 383 with less overall weight & true Hemi heads.  (I wonder if you could stroke one of those things any bigger with aftermarket parts?  I mean, the smallblock Chevy has been pushed out as far as 474 inches by aftermarket stuff.)

.

[ChargerSG]

Not really, but im gonna try anyway. I mean there are places to bolt everything like a old one(if you dont use ac and soo on) soo its not impossible i think, the question is what things to use and you have to think more than twise before trying to fire it up....

[dodgeboy67]

BILL KAYE CHRYSLER SELLS THAT CARBEURATED VERSION OF THE HEMI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-MOPAR-CARB-URETED-5-7L-HEMI-CRATE-ENGINE-ASSEMBLY_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQitemZ8036420461QQrdZ1

THAT IS A COMPLETE MOTOR FROM CARB TO PAN

[ChargerSG]

I know, but why pay $7999 when you can get one the half of the money....

[PocketThunder]

I was planning on doing this same thing with my 68 and i found the following website helpful.

www.hotrodlane.cc   i would also keep the fuel injection.

You can get a 545RFE tranny for about $1,000 shipped.

I decided to pass on this project because i was paying $3500 up front for the HEMI engine, + tranny + wiring harness brought my total up way past what it will cost me to rebuild the 440 that i have.  with the 440 i'll have 150 ft-lbs of additional torque for half the cost..  but i understand wanting the HEMI for the "having a HEMI" factor...

Paul
in St. Paul

[ChargerSG]

I will check that link out, this one is great www.thehemi.com/newhemiswap.php .
Having a Hemi is sure a thing, but $3500 is allot of money, i was really frustreted yesterday when i lost one on Ebay when it was 3 seconds left for $1285...

[dodgeboy67]

I know, but why pay $7999 when you can get one the half of the money....

because unless you are getting a hell of a deal on the motor ,by the time you get the hemi and buy the carb and intake(gaskets , etc&your time) you will probably have close to that in it any way....and possibly no warranty

the crate motor is new out of the box , running , ready to go....complete from carb to pan......

but thats my opinion, along with $1.50, that will buy you a cup of coffee

[ChargerSG]

For $1300 you can get a complete 5.7(outside Ebay even cheaper), if you then stay with the fuel injection its just like $300 in shipping and work, you will have buy some stuff you cant make but stay like 2k with all, then if they take $1000 for carb and intake then its 3k in total, and if its broke then its 1k to fix broken rod and go throu the whole motor.
With a crate one you still have to buy allot of stuff, so then its 10k easy, sure is more easy and you get some kind of warranty. But i cant count my work since thats nothing, you still do it because you want to. And 2k you can borrow without risking your whole economics, and what if its take 4 years and afford all you still own a Hemi. Everybody dont have big wallets....

Thats my point of veiw

[Mike DC]

The modern 5.7L Hemis are probably better because they've been pulled off an assembly line batch, but generally speaking I don't think a "new from MP" motor is worth much.  They're doing TERRIBLE jobs of assembling some of the 426/472/528 crate Hemis. 

And I was talking to John Aruzza himself one time several years ago, and he told me that the much-vaunted 528 crate Hemi accomplishes that displacement by having the cylinders bored to the limit.  So it's impossible to rebore most of the 528 blocks for any overhauls once they wear out.  (What's the point of paying for a new $2500 block when it can't even be re-cut ONCE?)  That's why Aruzza's comparable setup to MP's 528 Hemi is a 511-inch version with more stroke & less bore.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody wants 40-year-old performance parts that have been rebuilt 3 times already, but I'd rather have a decent used part from within the last decade than pay extra money for a "new motor" that's badly built & assembled.

.

[dodgeboy67]

For $1300 you can get a complete 5.7(outside Ebay even cheaper), if you then stay with the fuel injection its just like $300 in shipping and work, you will have buy some stuff you cant make but stay like 2k with all, then if they take $1000 for carb and intake then its 3k in total, and if its broke then its 1k to fix broken rod and go throu the whole motor.
With a crate one you still have to buy allot of stuff, so then its 10k easy, sure is more easy and you get some kind of warranty. But i cant count my work since thats nothing, you still do it because you want to. And 2k you can borrow without risking your whole economics, and what if its take 4 years and afford all you still own a Hemi. Everybody dont have big wallets....

Thats my point of veiw

i dont have big wallet either.....if what you say is true about getting the used motor  for so cheap....then i see exactly what you are saying....the motors ive seen are all around $4k.....where are you finding your motors at? i need to shop there.....i havent seen anything close to that cheap.....that really interests me because my truck motor is about shot

[phat69charger]

For $1300 you can get a complete 5.7(outside Ebay even cheaper), if you then stay with the fuel injection its just like $300 in shipping and work, you will have buy some stuff you cant make but stay like 2k with all, then if they take $1000 for carb and intake then its 3k in total, and if its broke then its 1k to fix broken rod and go throu the whole motor.
With a crate one you still have to buy allot of stuff, so then its 10k easy, sure is more easy and you get some kind of warranty. But i cant count my work since thats nothing, you still do it because you want to. And 2k you can borrow without risking your whole economics, and what if its take 4 years and afford all you still own a Hemi. Everybody dont have big wallets....

Thats my point of veiw

i dont have big wallet either.....if what you say is true about getting the used motor  for so cheap....then i see exactly what you are saying....the motors ive seen are all around $4k.....where are you finding your motors at? i need to shop there.....i havent seen anything close to that cheap.....that really interests me because my truck motor is about shot

Check out this site  http://car-part.com/  search in all areas, the page numbers are at the bottom of the page, the one with the astrik has the lowest price.

[bull]

I have a friend who put a 5.7 in a 1940 Chrysler convertible and he used a home made adapter plate to run either a 340 or 360 intake and carb. He also put a serpentine belt pulley on a distributor to run the ignition. He effectively got rid of all the computer electronics that way. I'll have to talk to him to see how it went.

[ChargerSG]

That sound very intressting, it would be great to see, picture would be even greater. Thanks Bull...

Dodgeboy i have found at salvageyards(the best ones have been in Canada but then its been little more in shipping) Egay have gonne 3k for a good one, everyone like to have one now, its a regular Joe Hemi and people have disvoerd that its lreally possible and if you not a mastermechanic you buy everything(but not the M1 carb intake)...

[Charger_Fan]

I just thought I'd throw in a pic of one done, to keep the mouth wet.



That's this car, BTW. Sold at B-J this year.
(I know, those back rims look terrible)

[bull]

Maybe you should wait for a 6.1 crate motor.

[Ghoste]

I thought DCX was claiming they are not going to release the 6.1 in crate from?  I don't believe it myself but I do think that was what they had announced at one point.

[andy74]

mopar action has a gtx clone with a 6.1 in it this month,they say its fast as hell,but im sure its a pretty big buck build.right now if you want a 6.1 you have to get a dealer to order it as a replacement engine,there are no crate motors

[Ghoste]

That article also mentions something about DCX not wanting dealers to sell them to anyone looking to do swaps of this kind.  You haven't heard anything about why that might be have you Andy?  Just a ploy to prevent stealing thunder away from current 6.1 introductions and future 6.1 crate engines?
Or is it even an official policy and just something MA made up?

[ChargerSG]

Just a ploy to prevent stealing thunder away from current 6.1 introductions and future 6.1 crate engines?

i think that is the thing, its the same with why they dont sell the M1 carbintake for 5.7 Hemis...

[andy74]

i will be meeting with my local dcx rep tuesday, have some warranty issues on a few vehicles i need to talk with him about,and ill get the scoop then-ill let you guys know what i find out!i will say that youre probably right in the fact that they dont want to steal thunder from the show room cars and they make more selling new cars than they do selling components(to a degree)

[bull]

That article also mentions something about DCX not wanting dealers to sell them to anyone looking to do swaps of this kind.  You haven't heard anything about why that might be have you Andy?  Just a ploy to prevent stealing thunder away from current 6.1 introductions and future 6.1 crate engines?
Or is it even an official policy and just something MA made up?

Figures. I guess I forgot and used logic in my thinking, as in maybe DCX would like to make more $$$.

[Ghoste]

There's no market in two doors (or 6.1 Crate Hemi swaps because we aren't going to create one.  If we only allow you to buy a couple of variations of the same thing from us, it's cheaper to build and we get rich quicker).

[sixpack70]

The problem is they will get mad because their bastard child the charger will get horribly upstaged by old b bodies with new hemis. DCX doesn't want to look that pathetic.

I also had been toying around with the idea of a swap like that. I would just have to find a good 318 car to do it too and get a buttload of cash, and finish my 70 charger R/T first. I was thinking of keeping the computer for the reason of the turn the key and go aspect. There is no carb tuning, it will most likely always start. Flooding problems are reduced etc.

[andy74]

the guys from dcx tell me that there will not be any crate 6.1s for at least a year,due to demand for them in cars.that actually makes some sence,due to the fact that even at 40 grand they sell every one they can build,like i said-ill keep any one posted that is interested when i find out some more!  

[Ghoste]

I suppose that makes more sense than some of their decisions seem to.  Aren't they required to keep a certain number in the pipe for parts purposes though?  You'd think if it were in that much demand, they'd ramp up the engine plant (or maybe it's already at capacity??).

[ChargerSG]

I think they have allot of parts just waiting to get out, they just wanna sell a serten amount first.... I want the carbintake now

[ChargerSG]

Finelly bought a 2004 5.7l Hemi with trans and all for $2500, and it was running before lift out of the Ram so hopefully no nasty suprices. So i dont get the hold of the carbintake for it i can for go for all this insted....its on

[ChargerSG]

At the first i was thinking in doing my own motor mounts to get this motor in to a Charger, then i was thinking i just buy some insted easyier said then done. There are sevral made to fit the 5.7l Hemi into a B-body but then allot of talk about "if you for that one have to make your own headers" or it mounts to high to get the tranny as it should, does anyone know whats best for a 69 Charger of  Street & Performance, TTI,  Mazzolini and soo on?

[siefkerc]

Hi there I am currently installing a 5.7 in a 68 dodge charger myself right now.   The folks who have been helping me with the change are out of Arkansas. There web site is www.hodrodlane.cc
The cost compared to a 426 hemi instaliation that is up to the person this is not cheap for an example the wire harness around 900 oil pan another 550 personally I want something different .

[ChargerSG]

Yeah if looking at their site it sure costs, i know places to get a oilpan for $250 and other parts cheap there are some rodders who build cheap stuff for it like Srpm. But is sure intressting to see a change before doing it, any pictures of the progress?

[siefkerc]

I am installing a 5.7 in 68 charger oil pan is 550 dollars computer another 500 wire harness 950 motor mounts 140 a 727 transmission will bolt to 5.7 need special flex plate also need external electric fuel pump or gas tank with fuel pump inside that is what i am going with another 650 go to www.hot rod lane.cc they are helping me i am selling my 5.7 bran new for 3500 got a 6.1 coming as you can see not cheap but high tech an different.

[PocketThunder]

Finelly bought a 2004 5.7l Hemi with trans and all for $2500, and it was running before lift out of the Ram so hopefully no nasty suprices. So i dont get the hold of the carbintake for it i can for go for all this insted....its on

I almost bought a 05 5.7 HEMI out of a Ram back in December, the guy wouldnt budge off of $4500, so i'm glad i waited. 

After you guys get this done and all figured out tell me and then i'll do the swap in my 68 318 car

[Aussiemadonmopars]

I just wanted to bump this thread along and find out if anyone has any more recent info as I'm looking into this as well.

[ChargerSG]

At the moment it sits on a stand, i waiting for a dude whos putting one of those in a 40 Ford(horrible isent it )i see how he do it soo i dont do same mistake as he
The big thing now before mounting it is the trans, go with the original 5 speed or a 727....

[ChargerSG]

I found a carbintake and Carb kit for a 5.7L, whoopi i thought untill i heard the price $3995

[73 Charger 440]

Hey,

I dont know exactly what progress you've made so far... But I know plenty of people who put LS1s into older vehicles, they usually buy complete packages (motor, trans, PCM and wiring harness) and go one-by-one through the harness and "delete" wires which they do not need... I thought this might be helpful since there are more of those swaps (as in maybe you can get some ideas by searching from them).

[RT DAVE]

I remember reading something about them re-releasing an even bigger new style "392" hemi.  In fact, there's a picture of an 06 charger drift car in the this month's HOT ROD with 392 hemi badges on the valve covers.    Maybe this is a little R&D venture for the new viper hemi project.   

[ChargerSG]

After pulling that motor back and forth trying to get it in the car with the original tranny, i realice that i have to cut in the car or change tranny, so my original plan to use it all stock to get a good mileage in it is gone.
So i sold the motor, tranny and everything got a really good price(more than i bought it for) and desided to buy a 5.7L Hemi Crate carb or save for a long time an get a 426 insted.

[PocketThunder]

Bump.

anyone new giving this a try?

[mhe71]

so im replying to this since this is what i was gonna call my new thread but searched instead. i have a 66 charger i want to put a junkyard 5.7l in and connect it too a hemi box a-833 the car its going into is orginally a hemi car so i figure its fitting til i can afford a big boy hemi. right now it has a 440 in it thats blown so i have a v8 k member and big block bell housing any insight on what i will need to do to get this project happening. and is there a flywheel being made now to help in this conversion. im getting long block with wiring and computer and a decent understanding of 12volt electronics

[thedodgeboys]

 

[motorcitydak]

Luckily there are a few companies out there that can help you now.

These guys have a lot of things to help
http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/61LHemi.asp
I would use them again for most things

I would buy the harness and ECM from
http://www.hotwireauto.com/

For a little background, I swapped a 5.7 Hemi and 545rfe auto trans into my 96 dakota last March. It runs awesome and I am running a Hot Wire Auto wiring harness and stock reflashed ECM. I have a power steering pump from Bouchillon. I did not use anything from Street and Performance (hotrodlane.cc), they just rubbed me the wrong way I guess. I will also be running a 5.7 Hemi truck motor and 545rfe in my '68 Charger so I will just repeat most of what I did with the truck except without the 4x4.

I did look into running a 833 or other manual behind the 5.7 but I found it to be prohibitivly expensve. The flywheel, clutch, throw-out bearing, bell housing, etc... Just added up to way too much. The 545rfe auto comes stock behind the 5.7, can handle a lot of power and abuse, costs about $300 out of a junk yard with a torque converter and seemed like a way better option. They are larger and heavier but I can deal with that no problem. I strongly recommend you look into the same thing.

Feel free to ask any questions, I will help you out as best as I can.

[motorcitydak]

A few things I forgot, Mopar makes a lot of parts for this thing like a flywheel and clutch. The 5.7 has the same bolt pattern as a SB so I think you just need a spacer between the bell and block.

Get the complete motor rite out of the JY if you can, no need to mess with trying to find the tiny parts seperately. They will just nickle and dime you to death. Do not bother with the stock wiring harness, there is nothing you can do with it but use it to compare to the new one you actually need. It will not even come with all 4 ECM connections since C2 goes to a lot of 'body components' like the gagues and what not. You can get the ECM, some places can flash it for you to make it usable.

These motors came for the most part with a SKIM security system. Basically, a chip in the key. If the ECM does not see the chip, it will fire up 3 times, run for about 5 seconds then shut down. After the 3rd time, it will not run again until you disconnect the battery for a while. You can only tell if it has the security by seeing the key for the vehicle, the ones with the chip will be fat. The ones without will be thin, just plastic coated sheet metal. Hot Wire Auto offers flashing of ECM's, B&G performace does also but that guy is a little off. Good at what he does, just off.

I also want to point out that you cannot use an ECM from an '03 Ram, they had 1 ECM for the motor and one for the trans. '04 started with 1 ECM for the motor and trans together. Early '04s will not have the security system, late '04 will.

'04-'05 motors are the best to get. '06 and up have the MDS cylinder deactivitation. All that means is that you will have the lifter collapsing solenoids and wiring harness coming out from under the intake manifold. Some guys just run the motors with out the solenoids plugged in but I have heard that they can some times collapse so other guys will replace the lifters with pre-MDS ones. My motor is an '05, it has plugs under the intake where the later MDS solenoids were to be placed.

You also need to decide wether to use a truck 5.7 of a car 5.7. The differences are the intake manifold and front acc placement. I like the truck setup because the throttle body is set way back at about the middle of the motor and the accessories are set up high on the block to give you more room for the steering and K member. Just check around online and you will be able to find a few pics of the two different motors which will help you determine what to run

[mhe71]

well im getting from my buddy so im not sure which style he has. i really want to run the stock tranny but i am afraid the input shaft hole will not be in the crank and what i will do about a compatiable clutch setup i may just buy it and resell it or put in my 5.9l grand cherokee instead

[thedodgeboys]

  with most of what motorcitydak said above  except I like the car motor better it looks cleaner with the ac and alternator down low 

I also like the intake better on the car motor 

I used a 6-speed manual in my swap and with 4.10 rear gears I get 22 mpg @ 70 mph with my 6.1 Hemi 


I used the mopar harness and ECM from AEM but if I were redoing one I would call on hotwire for the harness and ECM from
http://www.hotwireauto.com/ a friend of mine did his 5.7 with there stuff and its pretty simple.

[motorcitydak]

I agree with you that the car motor looks nice, the intake is cool and the accessories are hidden. The problem I was was they mite get in the way of other things in the car. The A/C compressor is way down on the side of the block which would hit the K member

As for the intake, yep its cool but I am going to run a 6 pack scoop and make it functional so I need to build an air box for the hood to seal to, I will just not have the room to do it if I used a car intake, it has to be a truck set up for me

The mpg was something I forgot to mention, its great especially for the power and reliability you get. Also do not forget about the on board diagnostics. If something goes wrong, all you have to do is plug in a scanner and the ECM will tell you why its pissed

Here is a shot of the 5.7 truck motor as I was putting it into my 96 dakota

[flyinlow]

I bought a 5.7 /545rfe and drivesahft with all the accesorys and wiring for $3000  out of a 2004 ram. I was going to put in a 73 Charger. At the time it was going to be close to $4000 for parts to make it work. It would have been nice if it ran as well as the one in my Ram. Ended up going with a 440/ A518.
Can't beat a 440 for horsepower and TORQUE for the buck.

[motorcitydak]

To give everyone a little insight, I kept track of every dime I spent to put that 5.7 and trans into my truck. I paid 1200 for the motor from a junk yard, 250 for the trans. I ended up at $3217 for everything I used to make it run in there. A few more numbers you may like are 400hp and 450ft lb easy and around 20mpg. Also keep in mind you get a finely tuned and easily upgradable multi port fuel injection. I just really do not see how you can go wrong with these motors

[flyinlow]

My numbers were from 3 years ago. It is getting cheaper and easier now. A modern fuel injected /roller cam engine is nice . And if you blow it up the junk yards have more of them. Once you have it installed and running if the the engine goes, the cost to replace just it is not bad. Half of the magic of the new hemis are the transmissions behind them. With just a sb 727 behind them I don't think they would be as attractive.

[mhe71]

well i guess the only way it would interest me is if i can fins the current six speed manual t go with it. i think those motors look sexy in old mopars.

[motorcitydak]

Check into what this guy has going on, he is putting a car 5.7 in with a 833, not sure of his plans for ECM, flywheel, clutch or throw out but he could come in handy here

[flyinlow]

One comparison I did.

Stock 440/727/3.55

480 lbs tq  X 2.45 first gear X 3.55 axle, minus 20% powertrain loss............3339 ft lbs torque on the axle to launch.


Stock 2004  5.7 /545rfe/4.10

375 lbs tq X 3.0 first gear x 4.10 axle , minus 20% powertrain loss.............3690 ft lbs torque on the axle to launch.


The 440 would be reving much higher at freeways speeds. You could go with a 4.56 in the 545rfe equiped car and still be turning less rpms.