new daytona on e bag ?

[charger_fan_4ever]

Is this a known car ?

#'s match 130k. Says has not been restored, is it grease/oil under the hood and in the trunk or rattle can black ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-DAYTONA-440-MAGNUM-S-MATCHING-46-000-ORIGINAL-MILES-/160802888738?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2570995c22

[nascarxx29]

Recorded as bright red black interior console auto Marvin miller Navarre Ohio
355138   171   oh      Massillion Dodge Massillion, Ohio   8/26/1969   

[Aero426]

Fender tag looks like a reproduction.   S/O number completely wrong too. 

[nascarxx29]

Appears also to have rust area or battery acid damage surrounding the tag.But tag is unscaved My R4 had the alum strip insp tag under the tag screw.

[Dave Kanofsky]

The engine compartment looks like it's from a different car than the outside!

[Aero426]

Appears also to have rust area or battery acid damage surrounding the tag.But tag is unscaved My R4 had the alum strip insp tag under the tag screw.

Right, the tag should have the same undercoating as the inner fender.

This would seem to be an example where no fender tag on a Daytona is better than an incorrect fake tag. 

[hemi68charger]

Nice.. I don't see the radio antenna delete on the fender tag.. I wish him luck.. See some rust issues on the rocker and possibly the rear driver's side rear valance.....

Daytona in any form is a cool cat......  

[hemi68charger]

Fender tag looks like a reproduction.   S/O number completely wrong too. 

Dang.. Mr. Obi-Wan-Kenobi-Daytona-guy has spoken........   

[charger_fan_4ever]

Nice.. I don't see the radio antenna delete on the fender tag.. I wish him luck.. See some rust issues on the rocker and possibly the rear driver's side rear valance.....

Daytona in any form is a cool cat......  

These two currently on the bag are making yours look cheaper by the day 

Says unrestored in the ad, but it looks it it needs a restoration.

[hemi68charger]

Nice.. I don't see the radio antenna delete on the fender tag.. I wish him luck.. See some rust issues on the rocker and possibly the rear driver's side rear valance.....

Daytona in any form is a cool cat......  

These two currently on the bag are making yours look cheaper by the day  

Says unrestored in the ad, but it looks it it needs a restoration.

You said it, not me.......  

But, like me.. What people are asking and what they are getting/offered are too different things..

[charger_fan_4ever]

I guess the two on ebag have the #'s match thing going on if that toots your flute. Not a big deal to me I'd rather a car with a nice body and a non original motor, than a car with a million patches but #'s everything.

[Aero426]

Dang.. Mr. Obi-Wan-Kenobi-Daytona-guy has spoken........  

No, that would be this guy...

"Reproduction, fender tag is."

[hemigeno]

My guess on what happened with the tag is that the original, or the remnants thereof, are somewhere in a ziplock baggie.  The "actual" VON is 926075.  Only two numbers are different on the (almost certainly) repro tag - the first and last digits.  Whomever was deciphering what to put on the repro tag may have simply guessed and got it wrong. 

I considered the possibility that the tag's VON was actually the dealership's original order number, however for the first time today I realized that the first +/-100 cars on the shipping list (when sorted by VIN) have no Dealer Order Number -- excluding the Executive-ordered vehicles -- as shown on the Dealer Invoice List printed in the WW/NBOA newsletters a few years back.  That MIGHT mean that the first batch of cars was spec'd entirely by the factory and not the dealerships, which was something I hadn't considered before now.  The first Dealer Order Number (which would normally appear on the tag as the VON, but was replaced on A11/A12, sunroof cars, etc.) shown on the Dealer Invoice List also happens to be the first car with a Scheduled Production Date later than 4/27/69.  Just something to think about...

Regardless of all that nonsense I just wrote, if the eBay seller of this car is not telling what's really up with the tag, what else isn't being disclosed?

[bama7070]

Odd one here seems to me  - not saying this isn't a righteous car  but I used to live up in Greenville just next to Spartanburg  for years , live just south of there now and been there for years , get up there real often to swap meets etc  , and have never seen this car , never heard of it , and neither have any of my buds  that I've mentioned it to - and in this area everybody knows everbody's business  - lol    who knows  never seems to amaze how cars come up out of nowhere ? Does look nice though -

[Aero426]

My guess on what happened with the tag is that the original, or the remnants thereof, are somewhere in a ziplock baggie.  The "actual" VON is 926075.  Only two numbers are different on the (almost certainly) repro tag - the first and last digits.  Whomever was deciphering what to put on the repro tag may have simply guessed and got it wrong.  

Or, is it possible that the hand written ship list is wrong and the original "rusted" tag (if it exists) was 926073.    The ship list is not necessarily error proof.  

[hemigeno]

My guess on what happened with the tag is that the original, or the remnants thereof, are somewhere in a ziplock baggie.  The "actual" VON is 926075.  Only two numbers are different on the (almost certainly) repro tag - the first and last digits.  Whomever was deciphering what to put on the repro tag may have simply guessed and got it wrong.  

Or, is it possible that the hand written ship list is wrong and the original "rusted" tag (if it exists) was 926073.    The ship list is not necessarily error proof.  

That is a slight possibility, but that would put it out of sequence with the cars which follow it in VIN sequence.  VONs jumped around a lot too of course, but there are batches of them that are sequential - and this car's VON is at the beginning of one of those small runs.  Another car (356537) is shown on the Ship List as having the 926073, and that VIN too is in a small batch of sequential VONs... which all means that I don't think (in this instance) the handwritten Ship List is incorrect.  There would have to have been two mistakes, and both "mistakes" would upset sequential runs of VONs.

As you've said the list is not error proof, but chances are fairly decent the list is accurate here.  That's just my opinion though...   

[hemi68charger]

Being that my last name is Hawkes, I speak "bird... So, I hear from this birdie that the pictures make the car look way better than it really is... Soooooo, if anyone on here is interested, please go check it out 1st !!! This birdie saw the car last month.... I say this as a public service.. Nuff said...  

[rainbow4jd]

I don't intend to piss on anyone's parade... but why all the jealousy?   If someone decides to sell their car on ebay and gets a TON OF MONEY, doesn't that make our cars more valuable?  Doy!?

There just seems to be a clique of "I still have the original air in my tires" owners/collectors that hate it when anyone else sells their car and makes a buck. It's like they're afraid the market will get so expensive that when the day comes that they have to actually add air to their tires, they won't be able to afford it! 

Isn't that the point of having something rare - that it goes up in value, not the other way around?

I originally restored my car on a college kid's budget.  I couldn't afford a black headliner at the time, so I got a white one - EGADS!   I put radial tires on my car - EGADS!   I put a Kmart Battery in it - EGADS!    I painted over the one screw on the fender tag that was not supposed to be painted over - EGADS!   I had a VW scissor jack - EGADS!   

I saved the freakin' car from the crusher!

And some day, I'm probably going to put it on eBay (or whatever the future version of eBay is 20 years from now).    At that time, only two opinions count - mine, and the person handing me cash.

PS  I still have the original exhaust vapors in a sealed mason jar from where the factory inspector started my car for the first time!  Top that for originality!

[mauve66]

but if everyone forgets what is correct and not correct, then anyone can fake one and THAT will destroy value and integrity, and why would a low mileage car ever get its engine by painted black when only the top end of the motor had been rebuilt, which would mean to me that they Probably didn't pull the motor, and still why paint it black....... and if the tag is faked then that is a whole new gaggle of questions

[rainbow4jd]

OK, maybe I am being stupid here (I've done it before - ask my wife).   

But there is a big web fire that destroys all the records and people start calling the cars 'Dodge Daggaronas" and "Plymouth Protons" - it still comes down to "what will someone actually pay?" on the day you want to sell your car.     

I'm reminded of the sellers who say, "I've got $35,000 in it but I'll take $12,000.  It's a great deal!".    To me that's like announcing "I'm a dumbass!"   The car isn't worth $35,000 and who ever buys it isn't getting a "great deal", they're buying a $12,000 car.   It's only a great deal IF you can turnaround and sell it immediately for $12.001 dollars.

To me..... If they can go back and figure out that a 500 year old painting is a fake, that a mummy did NOT come out of the pyramids, and Abe Lincoln really was a vampire hunter - then I think those folks who are concerned about "originality" will do the research to justify paying the money.  People will pay for what's important to them, not what's important to me.

So, I'm still hoping the guy sells the car for $130K regardless of whether its fake or real.

[held1823]

real versus fake, is not the point of the discussion, is it? . as Doug stated, the car is just as genuine without the fender tag, as it is with an incorrect one. are reproduction tags created for their "coolness" factor? not a chance.

misrepresentation is a serious issue, be it a $1300 car or a $130,000 one.

[Aero426]

and why would a low mileage car ever get its engine by painted black when only the top end of the motor had been rebuilt...

It appears to be spray on undercoating.  Not uncommon to do back then as a protectant.    Ask John Antonelli how much he liked removing it off his low mile Daytona.   

[nascarxx29]

Ebay Daytona car #171

[rainbow4jd]

Is there any similar shipment document for Superbirds?

Just curious.

And I kind of mis-read the gist of the earlier posts.   It sounded like the errors were being pointed out as a questioning of whether it was a real or fake vehicle.

Even though I intend to do a thorough and accurate restoration on my car - I'm sure I'll screw something up.

[tan top]

 
heres the rest of the pictures ,  so we got stuff  to look at when the Ad goes  

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[Aero426]

Is there any similar shipment document for Superbirds?

Daytona Superbird Auto Club has and offers a book of Superbird VIN's which list the cars date of shipment.  But it does not have the level of detail of the Daytona list with the shipping dealer info, or the special order number and scheduled production date.    This is the only document out there for Superbirds.   

[XS29LA47V21]

Odd one here seems to me  - not saying this isn't a righteous car  but I used to live up in Greenville just next to Spartanburg  for years , live just south of there now and been there for years , get up there real often to swap meets etc  , and have never seen this car , never heard of it , and neither have any of my buds  that I've mentioned it to - and in this area everybody knows everbody's business  - lol    who knows  never seems to amaze how cars come up out of nowhere ? Does look nice though -

I live in NC for a while too, didn't a fella in the G-SPG area have a couple 500s and a Daytona/Bird who made dash pads back in the 90s? One of the 500s was a 4spd-440 gold car painted red as I recall... hmm wonder where that car is not to sidetrack this thread.  Lots of Daytonas for sale these last several yrs, sure like looking

[rainbow4jd]

Looked at pictures.   That looks like fake rust to me.

[WINGIN IT]

Looked at pictures.   That looks like fake rust to me.

Definitely worth the premium 

[Hemi Runner]

I'd give 55K for it........ wait a minute, after checking my bank balance I'd give 5.5K for it

[charger_fan_4ever]

witht he bids topping out below 70 k for the yellow one that was just on I can't see the starting bid of 90k even being made on this one.

[69_500]

The market is a little soft right now. If these people were hoping to get $100K+ for these cars then they missed the boat by a few years in my opinion. Although my opinion might be a little biased because I need the market to get a little softer before I can actually spring for one.

[charger_fan_4ever]

 

Someone has bid 90k on it yet the yellow one topped out at 68k ?

[hemi68charger]

Someone has bid 90k on it yet the yellow one topped out at 68k ?

I bet, even though the pictures don't reflect it, the Y2 is in better shape than the R4.... Just my gut call.......

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Edit, wrong response to wrong car.   

[charger_fan_4ever]

Someone has bid 90k on it yet the yellow one topped out at 68k ?

I bet, even though the pictures don't reflect it, the Y2 is in better shape than the R4.... Just my gut call.......

Yup same feeling here. IMO the R4 needs to be torn apart for a resto. Be a very expensive car in the "end"