Gauge gremlins aka instrument cluster resto, the results!

[resq302]

One by one we're putting those gremlins in a blender! 

Since I will be taking the cluster back out I migh as well go ahead and replace the voltage limiter with a solid state one.  I see RTE has then for $50.  I know some people use the $5 radio shack parts but since those don't come with a manual I'm not sure which one is the better for me.  Can I have my cake and eat it?  Ie is there a cheaper alternative that is easy to install?  I can solder if that helps and I can read a plan...up to a point.

Man I so hope my gauges aren't fried cuz that would mean finding new (used) gauges and getting new decals.  Oil pressure gauge is still acting up, usually going up to 10 or 20 instead of the usual 50.  Alt gauges works fine, fuel gauge is dead, needle is literally off the chart and temp gauge needle is still parked to the far left.

Dino,

I tried that Radio Shack do it yourself special and it got so hot, I did not trust it.  Like DC 1 said, RTE has them and for $50 it is cheap insurance.  I got mine about 2 or 3 years ago and have had zero issues and gauges have been perfect since!  It also has a built in fail safe that should it fail, it will not send a full 12 volts to the gauges and fry them like a factory point style one might.

[Dino]

Not sure. I bought it from them at the Mopar Natioanls last year.

Here is a pic

Yep that's the IVR4, simple plug and play it seems, just how I like it.   

Dino,

I tried that Radio Shack do it yourself special and it got so hot, I did not trust it.  Like DC 1 said, RTE has them and for $50 it is cheap insurance.  I got mine about 2 or 3 years ago and have had zero issues and gauges have been perfect since!  It also has a built in fail safe that should it fail, it will not send a full 12 volts to the gauges and fry them like a factory point style one might.

I get nervous every time I see or hear the word 'fried' as I'm preparing to find one or two of mine being in that state.

I just read all about that radio shack and the high temps so I'm going to do what you guys did and play it safe.  I'm not about to risk lighting up my car because I wanted to save a few bucks.

Thanks gents!

[Dino]

$60 with shipping...I hope this one is a lot better than the other solid state regulators out there, that's a pricey little regulator!!

Is RTE pretty good when it comes to shipping it out quickly?

[b5blue]

Please let us know Dino!   

[Chargermoneypit]

Dino,
I am going through much of the same agony with the final assembly of my 68 Charger and the little gremlins. They are frustrating little bastards. I might as well chime in if you don't mind and share my similar issues. I have a brand new dash wiring harness and found all the correct points of hook up. I purchased a restored dash cluster from the guy who occassionally lists them on ebay for around $500.00. I had the new dash bezels I got from PGA and all the guages were refaced correctly and odometer turned back to zero. My understanding was that it was a bolt in ready to go cluster. UMMM. Not so much. I put replaced the clock with the first item I purchased 7 years ago which was the quartz clock that was concours restored. When I hooked up the battery for the first time to bring the car back to life and start checking things the only thing that actually worked was the clock. After countless hours of checking and rechecking wiring most everything seemed to be working, more or less. I was able to get the all points on the car to work. But now the damn clock stopped working exactly like yours. I tapped on it, slapped the dash and all the usual fixes we try once or twice and nothing. You know we've all tried it. I used some needle nose pliers to adjust the time and it started working again. I was all excited and then it quit again. I did the same thing and it started and stopped again. Figuring it must be something inside the clock I started to remove it from the backside and it started again. I left it and pulled the battery cable and the damn thing was still going. Talk about ghosts???  I figured it must have a backup battery because that one left me stooped. In the end I gave up and ordered a new tic tac toc that arrived today so I might as well go for it. 

Insofar as the other gauges. The first time I started the car the ammeter gauage worked fine and oil pressure gauge seemed to be working fine, albeit a little eratic, but no gas or temp gauge movement. I checked the connctions on the gauges themselves and all seemed okay. I did buy the solid state voltage regulator and the OP gauge is perfect now. The cluster seemed to be properly grounded with the screws into the dash housing even with it having been painted. Nope. No gas or temp gauge. I was about to start all the testing on the sending unit and such and when I started the car the other day and turned on the headlights the gas gauge reads about where I think it should but now the temp and OP gauge peg all the way out to the right. Leave it to my wife to come up with the idea of driving around with the headlights on to see how much gas I have.  I am hoping it is a bad grounding that is causing that issue but I am going to install a new circuit board that I got from Mr. Heaterbox out of Canada that arrived today. I have been told that they can be much or the source of the gauge problems outside of the grounding needed. I will keep you posted after tomorrows adventure.

[b5blue]

The pins on the printed board....

[doctor4766]

This happened on the day I was taking my Charger to be inspected for it's first licensing in Oz.
I started the car and all the small gauges decided to peg out to the right, so in frustration I pulled the cluster to see WTF was going on.
Turned out that the ground wire that was normally soldered to the voltage regulator (that plugs into the circuit board) had come adrift.
I resoldered that back onto the VR casing and all the gauges started to work properly again.
Worth checking it out guys.
Something so basic can make it look like you've got major issues when in fact it's a simple fix.

[Dino]

Thanks for sharing guys, makes me feel less alone.   

I am sure the circuit board needs work, I know that the far right pin is coming loose.  That's far right looking at it from the back.  And I 'think' that one is responsible for the instrument lighting which does not work, only the seperate wired lights work but none on the circuit board.

I am going to pull the board, clean it, remove the pins, clean some more, resolder the pins and test for continuity.  Hopefully that and the new solid state regulator will do the job.  In case temp and fuel gauges are fried I do have two spare fuel gauges at home, they look like crap but if one of them still works I will transplant the new face on the old one and install it which leaves me to go find a temp gauge and some rivets.

I will keep you guys posted of the progress, I'm pulling the cluster when the regulator gets here.

The clock seems to be off by a minute or two every day which seems to be the norm.  I wonder if I can put a regulator behind it to give it the same constant voltage instead of the fluxuating voltage it probably receives now.  I'm guessing that's what's happening since it would explain why the clock is never precise.

[68 R/T blue]

I finally got the car back, put the instrument cluster in and not everything worked as it should...

Before I pulled the cluster to restore, only one thing did not work and that was the right hand turn signal indicator light on the panel, everything else worked perfect...almost perfect, fuel gauge was at the 3/4 mark when the tank was topped up to the cap.

Of course dumbass ole' me had to pull the damn thing because it looked like a 40 yo cluster.  It looks great now but alas, something went wrong.

First of all I am not an electrician so I did not test anything out before I put it back in the car.  Simply because I don't know how and because I didn't really have to take all that much apart to reface the gauges, it's really straightforward.  Therefor I believed everything would not work!

First thing I noticed,  the rh turn signal indicator works! Yay!
But the clock is not moving...  Looked for continuity and nothing, no juice.  The orange wire had power but the clock didn't take it.  Took the clock back out and bench tested it.  The ground seems to be a flimsy metal ring with the positive post sticking inside it, protected by a rubber washer.  It's deteriorating but it still looks decent.  Finall got the thing running but by the time I hooked it up in the car it didn't move again.  I did this a few times, also played around with the mechanism itself and I'd be able to wind it enough to get it running for a few seconds...so no clock.  Funny thing though, I drove it home and noticed that for every hour in the car, the thin second hand would move up about 5 seconds!  By the time I got home it seemed like I did the trip in 20 seconds.  So what is going on with this thing?  Is it fried or did I miss something?  I found two small springs in the mechanism and both were attached at either end.  One was part of the winding mechanism I think.

The speedo!  Oh boy...the cable is on thanks to someone who knew what he was doing (no not me), and the odometer turns and works great...but the speedo needle isn't going anywhere, and that's a problem with a 440 under the hood.

I followed pcg's instructions on how to remove and reinstall the needle and it was a breeze, yet after doing only that why is it not moving?  Before I installed it in the cluster, I could easily spin that big metal wheel thingy and the needle would travel from 0 - virtual 165-ish and back.  Again where do I start to look?

When I turned on the lights only half the cluster lit up.  None of the small gauges were lit nor was the right side of the speedo.  These are all the bulbs on the circuit board.  We tested the bulbs and wires and they are good.  One of the 5 (6?) pins on the circuit board (far right looking from the back) Was a bit loose so I don't know if the circuit is broken.  The connector itself seemed fine.  Now all the small gauges work great and even the fuel gauge read spot on this time!  Temp read the same as before as did oil pressure and alternator.  About 45 minutes into the trip the fuel, oil and alt gauges travelled all the way to the right and stayed there.  WTF???  My first thought was that the gauges received more than 5 volts, maybe the full 12 and they were now the prettiest dead gauges thou shalt find.
About 10 minutes later the temp gauge fell to the far left and has remained there.  I pulled into a rest area and turned the ignition off, fuel and oil pressure gauge needles fell to the left.  Every time I turned the ignition on the fuel and oil needles would go back to the right, temp never moved, alt works fine.

Now all I had to rely on to know how much fuel I have left is to look at the odometer and guess.  The thing is, since I swapped the rear end gears, the odometer and speedo are off, by quite a bit.  I know the odometer shows less than you're actually doing so better safe than sorry, I pulled into a gas station, filled it up and did the math.  Yep it's still doing a lousy 11 mpg on the highway...

I drove it home, ignored the gremlins and enjoyed a sunny Sunday morning in my Charger.

I hope you guys can shed some light on what is going on as I really don't want to remove and install this cluster much more.  Not because it's a lot of boring work but because every time I do this, I risk damaging the hard work I put into restoring this.  I will post a few pics later in my cluster resto thread (and/or here).  I don't think anyone can tell the difference between the real chrome and the paint.  It looks awesome!

[Dino]

I pulled the cluster today and removed gauges and circuit board.

I tape two AA batteries together to get a snif past 3 volts.  Fule gauges needle drags a bit but it seems it's going just about half way so that one seems okay.  Oil pressure gauge goes all the way to the right, how do I interpret that?  Temp gauge is dead unfortunately but ehm are the cores of these gauges the same because I have two spare fuel gauges, I know one of them works.  Can I swap the faces and calibrate it?

The odometer works but the speedometer needle doesn't move.  I can't see where it would be dragging and it moves easy when I give it a push, but it does have some resistance.  What can I do to make sure it works when I put it back in?  Does it have anything to do with those two metal tabs that almost hit the bigger cup?

Last question:  How do I test for continuity on the circuit board?  I pulled the old limiter and condenser off and I have the new RTE solid state limiter.  I don't need to put the condenser back on right?

[Dino]

I was playing around with the speedometer this morning and found that the big cup on the back of the needle could be pulled towards the front just a tad.  I did and it clicked into place, no longer giving any resistance.  Looks like you can lock these things!  I'm pretty sure it'll work now so I'm getting closer to a working cluster bit by bit.

[AirborneSilva]

Baby steps Dirk 

[Dino]

Baby steps Dirk 

Literally!  Two steps forward, one step back, fall flat on ass, rinse and repeat!   

[Dino]

Alright fuel gauge stopped worjking so I fiddled with the needle and it popped off!  Temp gauge still dead, oil pressure goes up about 3/4 with 3 volts hooked up.  Is this simply a matter of adjusting it through one of the holes in the back of the gauge or is it done for a well?

I still have one working fuel gauge so I may try to swap the faces but will definitely need a new temp gauge so if you have a spare please let me know.

I finally figured out how to test the circuit board and I have continuity everywhere, even on the loose pin.  Gave it a twist and it's tight again so I'm not touching it.  One of the holes you use to screw the circuit board to the cluster is not giving me any reading, looking at the circuit bnoard it's the one on the top left.  The one on the top right does give continuity with one of the slots for the limiter.  Should I be worried or is it okay?

[Dino]

There's a bit of progress here.  I took the cluster out, replaced the temp gauge, tested all gauges and calibrated them as best I could by trying to make the needle stop half way when hooked up to 2.5 V.

When I was installing the cluster in the car I noticed two of the bulbs on the circuit board did not work, although they are fine and the circuit board has continuity.  I also installed the RTE IVR4 limiter.

I also found that two of the wires going into the rheostat switch were spliced so I removed it and installed the switch from the '70 I have.  The dash lights can now be dimmed again but the roof light won't go on, it will when I open a door but not with the switch. 

The speedometer is fully operational again as is the clock.  As I said, two bulbs don't light up.  The right side of the speedometer is dark as is the alt gauge.

Temp gauge reads a tad low, I drove it around yesterday for a good hour and it was around 85 out yet the gauge never went over 180, probably should be closer to 200.  Oil pressure still only reads around 10, not sure if this gauge can be properly calibrated or not.  Before the original limiter went nuts it read around 45-50.

Of course the gauge I depend on most didn't work...fuel gauge was pretty much dead.  This is the spare I had, I just switched the fac4es on fuel and temp gauges as I refaced them earlier.  I tested the circuit board and wiring for continuity and everything checks out, while the gauge was installed I hooked up my 2.5 V battery to it and the needle went up half way yet when driving it didn't budge.  That is until I filled her up.  I added 9 gallons to the tank and the needle 'almost' went up to 1 quarter full, then went back down, then came back up to the first mark and that's where it pretty much stayed.  So the gauge is getting juice, just not enough.  Not sure what to do about that one...

Does it seem like this is a circuit board problem?  Is it time to replace?  I hate to spend that money only to find out nothing changed.

For now I'll watch the odometer and fill up the car whenever I reach 150 miles, just to be sure I won't get stranded.

On a positive note, it felt so damn good driving her again, she'd been sitting in the garage for 2 1/2 weeks.  Gremlins or not, I love this car to death.

[AirborneSilva]

Seems a brother just cant catch a break, it does sound like the circuit board but then I'm not an expert   

[Dino]

I wonder if it is the circuit board.  For a minute I though my new limiter had fallen out of the circuit board as fuel, temp and oil gauge needles all went down again while coming into work this morning.  When I pulled into the parking spot backwards the car suddenly died on me.  That was a first.  It fired right up again and low and behold the gauges moved again.  What the heck is going on with this thing?

The good news is that installing the new valley pan and gaskets has improved cold and hot start dramatically.  It's not perfect, I don't have a thick spacer so fuel still gets too hot but it's a vast improvement.  I only hope that cutting out while parking was a fluke.  One gremlin at a time please!

[Dino]

I found the culprit that made the car stall as it did it again the same day when I left work.  When I shut it off at home and tried to restart it was completely dead.  Turned out I pulled one of the wires at the bulkhead connector while installing the intake manifold and it made bad contact.  Phew.

Looks like my oil pressure and temp gauges work but they need calibrating.  Temp reads a bit low, oil reads way low.  I know I can recalibrate those so that's okay.
Fuel gauge however is still pretty dead.  It may flicker from time to time but will go down again right away.  I tested the gauge and it'll go all the way up when you hit it with 5 volts so I know it works.

Should I go ahead and get another circuit board?  Do you think this may be the issue?  I hate to spend that much money to find out it's something else.

[resq302]

If the gauge goes all the way up with 5 volts, chances are it is either the ground for the sending unit OR that you have a hole in your float for your sending unit.

[Dino]

If the gauge goes all the way up with 5 volts, chances are it is either the ground for the sending unit OR that you have a hole in your float for your sending unit.

That would be a possibility but the gauge worked before.  At least it worked better, when the tank was full the guage would read 3/4.  The trouble started when the voltage limiter shorted and fried temp and fuel gauges.  I had a few spare fuel gauges so I tested them and one worked great.  I swapped the faces as I just redid them and calibrated the gauge.  The problem is that it's only occasionaly getting power to the gauge and when it does it's not enough.

[resq302]

Just a thought but if the float would have a hole in it, it would progressively get worse.  If it had 3/4 tank showing before and now showing 1/2, I would pull out the sending unit and see if the float has any fluid inside it.

[Dino]

Just a thought but if the float would have a hole in it, it would progressively get worse.  If it had 3/4 tank showing before and now showing 1/2, I would pull out the sending unit and see if the float has any fluid inside it.

Definitely something to add to the list as there will be a problem there eventually.  This problem is electrical though, I have no doubt about that as the needle reacts to just turning the key on and off.

[resq302]

the needle will react when you turn the ignition on and off.  Eventually it will not react because the float will have failed to float giving you an E reading even if you have a full tank of gas.  If you take the sending unit wire off and ground that wire, it should move the gauge up to the full mark.  Just don't leave the wire hooked up to ground too long or you risk burning up the gauge.  I would try this as it would show you that the gauge does indeed work and will read all the way up to full mark.

[Dino]

the needle will react when you turn the ignition on and off.  Eventually it will not react because the float will have failed to float giving you an E reading even if you have a full tank of gas.  If you take the sending unit wire off and ground that wire, it should move the gauge up to the full mark.  Just don't leave the wire hooked up to ground too long or you risk burning up the gauge.  I would try this as it would show you that the gauge does indeed work and will read all the way up to full mark.

Cool!  I'll give it a shot.  Thanks!

[b5blue]

Check your ground strap on the fuel line to sender first.  It's a metal strip with grabby things on each end that spans the rubber hose from the fuel line to the senders output tube.