Who has done a 4 speed conversion and how long does it take?

[AKcharger]

Hi Guys, this is a diffrent 4 spd conversion thread...I know what I need and have all the parts. My question is before I start in on this how man man hours is avg. for a conversion. What were the biggest headaches? is it just as easy to pull the motor?

Thanks

[RallyeMike]

Time depends on your skills and how nice you want it to be. Are you gonna clean all that stuff up before the install, during the install, or just toss it in?

I would pull the motor out to ease the installation of the pivot bracket and floor pan modification, and to assemble the engine and trans out of the car.  Not necessary, just preferred.

[AKcharger]

Thanks Ralley. most of the parts are already blasted awaiting paint. No way in good concious could I put 'em in as is, that was just a pic of the parts when I got them. Actually a friend bought them all for me while I was in Korea. I'm thinking of going the engine removal route. 

[kab69440]

It won't do you a lot of good to pull the block. You need it in place to locate the gearbox, crossmember, pivot bracket, clutch linkage and so on. Plus you need to know all this new stuff will clear your exhaust system. Unless you are installing a forged crank to avoid trimming the gearbox's input shaft, you might as well leave the engine right where it is.


PS It took me an entire Saturday when I was a kid and all full of energy and ambition. It would be a 5 year project,  these days.

[Cooter]

Need to make sure you aren't putting that thing behind a cast crank engine..THAT would be thie biggest thing to look for.

[AKcharger]

Good point about the positioingn KAB. I'm running stock Cast Irons HP manifols so that might make it a bit easier.

Hmmmm, man I don't remember about the crank? it's a '67 383 and I THINK it's a cast. I stuffed it in in '03. How do you tell again? if it's got weights on the Torque converter?

[Highbanked Hauler]

 Realistically  a weekend  should do it without breaking a sweat but I did mine 10 minutes at a time and I didn't put a console in   What are you putting it in ?

[AKcharger]

It's going in my '70,  The Burnt Orange one in my Avatar pic . I've always wanted a 4 speed but the pistol grip was always a problem, VERY hard to find. Well, long story short, my pal found whole set up (minus clutch and floor hump) a few years ago for me, it's just been waiting to go in. My issue is the '70 is in storage in PA and I only see it once a year when My wife and I fly down for Carlise from AK. So I'm trying to budget time on my next trip to make the swap over.

Oh...only thing I can't find is the console trim on the drivers side, it's diffrent cause of the hump. any sources on that??

[Rolling_Thunder]

The biggest PITA is the clutch/brake pedal assembly.

You should be able to do it in about 10 hours total as a nice "hobby" page of work but beverages in between.   


I think it would be just as easy installing it from under the car as it would by removing the engine. Once the frame bracket and the floor hump is installed everything else is nuts and bolts. 

[matrout76]

Need to make sure you aren't putting that thing behind a cast crank engine..THAT would be thie biggest thing to look for.

why not?

[Rolling_Thunder]

Need to make sure you aren't putting that thing behind a cast crank engine..THAT would be thie biggest thing to look for.

why not?

Some people think a cast crank is not good for a 4-speed (I have never seen a reason to question it but some people do)

Another factor if that usually cast cranks require weighted flywheels along with different harmonic balancers

[Cooter]

Need to make sure you aren't putting that thing behind a cast crank engine..THAT would be thie biggest thing to look for.

why not?

Cast crank engines (other than the 360 Chrysler which came factory with a straight drive and cast crank), will NOT accept a flywheel without ALOT of problems. Sure, it'll bolt up, but you'll be back on here in about a month asking WTF your engine is knocking and vibrating like hell. a 1967 383 should be a steel crank, so he should be ok. If you've ever seen a cast crank break from running an improperly balanced flywheel/4-speed set up, you'd understand why this shouldn't be so hard to understand.

[AKcharger]

If you've ever seen a cast crank break from running an improperly balanced flywheel/4-speed set up, you'd understand why this shouldn't be so hard to understand.

Really? the crank will break???

[kab69440]

If it is far enough out of balance and run long enough, yes. At a minimum it will eat up bearings and seals. Don't forget about the pilot hole being too shallow to accept the nose of the input shaft.

[gtx6970]

lots of factors to consider, how proficcent you are, - how correct you want it to be

average , 2 solid full days ( maybe )

[Troy]

I think aligning and welding the z-bar bracket may be a royal pain with the engine still in the car. I'm not sure why you need the engine in there for anything. The floor hump and z-bar bracket have locating marks. Lining up the trans input and the crank would be a lot easier outside of the car. Not to mention, getting those top two bolts that mount the engine to the trans can be tough. The pedal assembly is difficult with the dash assembled and seats installed - although I will *assume* you'll be removing the seats before doing any welding on the hump.

Troy

[BIGBLCK11]

   It was much easier with the engine out.  I did the conversion last spring.  It was also very nice having the steering column out, as I was swapping that too.  I did temporarily mount the transmission with the bellhousing attached, to make sure it was all aligned nicely.  I just mounted the rear crossmember and supported the front with a heavy ratchet strap across the torsion bars. There is only a mark on the frame, for the front corner of the ball stud bracket to line up with, so it helped mocking it up with the z-bar and bellhousing.  The hump was pretty easy also, as it pretty much only fits one way with the contours of the floorpan.  I already had my cluster out too, but the pedal assy. would have been more difficult if it was still in.  I was doing engine work too, so it was apart for awhile.  But, if you have all the parts painted/cleaned and ready to install, I am sure 1 to 2 days could be done.  Good luck. The end result is well worth it! 

[AKcharger]

Thanks guys

Last questions:
- Is the console trim on the drivers side console available anywhere?
- Is the cross member same for auto/manual
- I have the rubber boot for the console...is there one for the floor as well?

Thanks!

[Troy]

Thanks guys

Last questions:
- Is the console trim on the drivers side console available anywhere?
- Is the cross member same for auto/manual
- I have the rubber boot for the console...is there one for the floor as well?

Thanks!

1. It was but now it's not. It has always been difficult to find and there was great rejoicing when the repro came out. Now, only sadness.
2. In a 70 I believe it is (68-69 have different cross members for each).
3. Yes.

Troy

[BIGBLCK11]

Yes, the 70 cross member is the same for both, BUT you need a trans with the 70-74 tail housing.  From the pic, it doesn't appear yours has the rear E-body shifter pad that is also on the later transmission.  It still uses the front B-body shifter pad, but the cross member mount flange is up further on the transmission.

I love the FK5!!  

[RallyeMike]

BUT you need a trans with the 70-74 tail housing.  From the pic, it doesn't appear yours has the rear E-body shifter pad that is also on the later transmission.

Ya.

[BIGBLCK11]

You'll also have to stretch your shifter rods about 12 inches to reach the E-shifter (71-74 B) shifter pad.

Nope, I bought a new Hurst, 70 pistol grip shifter mechanism and the "correct" shifter rods, use the B-Body shifter pad, no issues at all.

[myk]

If you've ever seen a cast crank break from running an improperly balanced flywheel/4-speed set up, you'd understand why this shouldn't be so hard to understand.

Really? the crank will break???

I wouldn't forget about the crank issue, and whether you have the correct one or not.  Like Cooter says, cast and forged cranks and their related drivetrain configurations are balanced differently.  You could very well be dealing with a problem after the install.  I hope there's some way you can verify what crank you have.  On top of that, I hope you pull this off-what a great 'mod...


A

[AKcharger]

copy all guys, thanks.

Yes, the 70 cross member is the same for both, BUT you need a trans with the 70-74 tail housing.  From the pic, it doesn't appear yours has the rear E-body shifter pad that is also on the later transmission.  It still uses the front B-body shifter pad, but the cross member mount flange is up further on the transmission.

I love the FK5!!  

Hmmmm tail housing issue huh, what if I got a '68/69 cross member would that solve the problem? trying to think about what is easier

[BIGBLCK11]

Hmmmm tail housing issue huh, what if I got a '68/69 cross member would that solve the problem? trying to think about what is easier

Yeah, that would work.  But, the original 4-speed cross members are hard to find.  You can alter one for an automatic or buy one that has been done already.  There are threads here on that subject.  

Brewer's sells the converted ones, not too bad on the price. http://www.brewersperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TC668