Dude with the smashed Charger: here's your replacement!

[Magnumcharger]

I just found this clone of your old car...for sale!

Other than not having the cash, this would be a perfect replacement Charger!!

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1969-Dodge-Charger-SE-R-T-clone-440-W0QQAdIdZ363140360

[Ghoste]

I wonder if it is both the SE and the RT that are cloned or just one?

[PocketThunder]

"I have about $100K invested in this car since 2001 (all receipts are available). It has recently been appraised for $50K. Due to financial hardship, I'm reluctantly willing to part with my dream car for just $29,900. Please no lowballers or tire kickers."

$100,000!   One hundred thousand dollars!    That poor bastard, i would almost start selling kidneys instead of taking a $70,000 bath on a 69 Charger....   

[bakerhillpins]

This car has come up before, I believe a board member owns it or at least came here to discuss it. Used to have a black 201 on the door and a UK RAF symbol on the roof?

[Ghoste]

I remember that, it was a tribute to the Avro Arrow fighter jet.  You sure this is the same car?

[bakerhillpins]

I think so.. I recall the car being in CA.. (That would be Canada)

Thanks for the tribute name as it got me a hit on the pic.. now to try to find the thread.

[firefighter3931]

I remember that, it was a tribute to the Avro Arrow fighter jet.  You sure this is the same car?

Yep, that is Dave's car. I helped him break-in the new motor a few years back. Very nice and straight Charger....well worth the asking price !  


Ron

[bakerhillpins]

I remember that, it was a tribute to the Avro Arrow fighter jet.  You sure this is the same car?

Yep, that is Dave's car. I helped him break-in the new motor a few years back. Very nice and straight Charger....well worth the asking price ! 


Ron

HA... just found where you posted that same thing... lol. Turned up in the Worst Charger Paintjobs thread from years back..
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18767.msg215340.html#msg215340

[elanmars]

yeah I've seen that car a few times as well. Nice looking for sure but a bit out of my price range, unfortunately! Can't imagine spending that much on a car resto though, WOW.

[Magnumcharger]

yeah I've seen that car a few times as well. Nice looking for sure but a bit out of my price range, unfortunately! Can't imagine spending that much on a car resto though, WOW.

It would cost a lot more to fix the one you've got!

[1974dodgecharger]

if a comlete restore well damn thats a great price!!!!! Most folks would of said, 'This is a charger I invested over 100k this is easily worth 150k' 

[cavemanno1]

It's incomprehensible to me how someone can spend $100k on a charger let alone a clone?Why not buy a nice one for $30-40k and that's it!This way would be a lot more gas money left!Loosing that much is crazy and must be real bad!I fell sorry for the guy!It's bad enough to sell your dream car but loosing that much hurts more then anything!

[kab69440]

To Hell with the cash. I would be suicidal knowing I had to let my eldest child go.

[404NOTFOUND]

I'm sure it raised the value taking the 201 off the door.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

if a comlete restore well damn thats a great price!!!!! Most folks would of said, 'This is a charger I invested over 100k this is easily worth 150k'  

...and yet for $100k (supposedly) invested, there is a bungee cord holding the battery in place  

I think someone rounded to the nearest $100k, or used Canadian money when it was worth less to the dollar. Or maybe stuffed gold bars in the doors? Anyways, I am being critical, but probably not too inaccurate...

[firefighter3931]

...and yet for $100k (supposedly) invested, there is a bungee cord holding the battery in place  

I think someone rounded to the nearest $100k, or used Canadian money when it was worth less to the dollar. Or maybe stuffed gold bars in the doors? Anyways, I am being critical, but probably not too inaccurate...

Where did you see a bungee cord battery hold down ? Inaccurate you are....if you'd have actually seen the car in person you'd have a different opinion. This is a true nut and bolt restoration that was built on a theme. The personalized badging has been removed to make it more appealing to the masses which makes sense.

Everything is new or rechromed/polished on this car. There's probably 20K in paint/bodywork alone on this project. Beautiful leather interior etc....

It's a shame that the car is being sold but stuff happens and life's priorities sometimes take over. Someone is going to get a great car for a steal. If i had the cash sitting around i would have bought it allready. 



Ron

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

...and yet for $100k (supposedly) invested, there is a bungee cord holding the battery in place  

I think someone rounded to the nearest $100k, or used Canadian money when it was worth less to the dollar. Or maybe stuffed gold bars in the doors? Anyways, I am being critical, but probably not too inaccurate...

Where did you see a bungee cord battery hold down ? Inaccurate you are....if you'd have actually seen the car in person you'd have a different opinion. This is a true nut and bolt restoration that was built on a theme. The personalized badging has been removed to make it more appealing to the masses which makes sense.

Everything is new or rechromed/polished on this car. There's probably 20K in paint/bodywork alone on this project. Beautiful leather interior etc....

It's a shame that the car is being sold but stuff happens and life's priorities sometimes take over. Someone is going to get a great car for a steal. If i had the cash sitting around i would have bought it allready. 



Ron

From their eBay pics where they tried for months to sell the car... That's where I saw pics of a bungee cord holding the battery in place. Also, the heater box etc. was in-installed. For a $100 k resto, I'd expect better...

That said, I've got money burning a hole in my pocket for a cloned R/T and would buy the car, if only it were priced a bit less. It's nice, but needs finishing.

[firefighter3931]

From their eBay pics where they tried for months to sell the car... That's where I saw pics of a bungee cord holding the battery in place. Also, the heater box etc. was in-installed. For a $100 k resto, I'd expect better...

That said, I've got money burning a hole in my pocket for a cloned R/T and would buy the car, if only it were priced a bit less. It's nice, but needs finishing.

I don't remember a missing battery hold down or heater box but in the grand scheme of things those are minor issues. Anybody who's done a complete and total restoration knows how much it costs. I've been there, done that and know the time, effort and expense involved. There's no way you could ever duplicate this car for what he's asking.

I read your other post about the guy in MD who's 69 got sold at auction. Had you got that car for free and did the paint/suspension/metalwork/drivetrain yourself you'd still have waaaay more into it than this car.  This is not some hackjob scuff and paint deal....it's a rotisserie restoration with no expense spared. Take a look at Ridelikehell's resto thread and you'll get the idea.

Haven't spoke with Dave in a few years so i don't know why it's for sale but i do know he's a single dad with kids approaching college age. It's unfortunate that the market is what it is....but someone is going to get a smoking deal !



Ron

[Ghoste]

What was done to it drivetrain-wise Ron?

[firefighter3931]

What was done to it drivetrain-wise Ron?

Everything....motor/trans/rear end. The 440 is mild with an Engle hyd cam, bored .030 with forged speedpro pistons, balanced etc...Runs on pump gas and is very nice to drive. Not built to be a racecar....just a cruiser. 


Ron

[Drache]

Members here also need to realize that for some reason, in Canada, 2nd Gen Chargers command a lot more money than others. If that car was a real R/T then you'd be seeing another $10,000 onto that price.

That car was always one of my favorite Canadian Chargers, mainly because I knew what the 201 actually meant! If I had the money I would have bought it back when it was still the Avro Charger!

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

From their eBay pics where they tried for months to sell the car... That's where I saw pics of a bungee cord holding the battery in place. Also, the heater box etc. was in-installed. For a $100 k resto, I'd expect better...

That said, I've got money burning a hole in my pocket for a cloned R/T and would buy the car, if only it were priced a bit less. It's nice, but needs finishing.

I don't remember a missing battery hold down or heater box but in the grand scheme of things those are minor issues. Anybody who's done a complete and total restoration knows how much it costs. I've been there, done that and know the time, effort and expense involved. There's no way you could ever duplicate this car for what he's asking.

I read your other post about the guy in MD who's 69 got sold at auction. Had you got that car for free and did the paint/suspension/metalwork/drivetrain yourself you'd still have waaaay more into it than this car.  This is not some hackjob scuff and paint deal....it's a rotisserie restoration with no expense spared. Take a look at Ridelikehell's resto thread and you'll get the idea.

Haven't spoke with Dave in a few years so i don't know why it's for sale but i do know he's a single dad with kids approaching college age. It's unfortunate that the market is what it is....but someone is going to get a smoking deal !



Ron

That is very unfortunate to hear about the seller and their situation however, that has no bearing on market value.  I learned over 20 years ago, a dollar in, does not equal a dollar out, when calculating the value of refurbishing an old car.

And regarding the other 69, it was an R/T SE, which as you know is going to be worth more in the end than an XP car. The sad reality, is that it costs the same to restore an XP car as it does an XS car, but the XS car will be worth much more in the end.

Again, sorry to hear of your friend's situation

[ACUDANUT]

It's incomprehensible to me how someone can spend $100k on a charger let alone a clone?Why not buy a nice one for $30-40k and that's it!This way would be a lot more gas money left!Loosing that much is crazy and must be real bad!I fell sorry for the guy!It's bad enough to sell your dream car but loosing that much hurts more then anything!

I agree, come on...a 100K invested. 

[Drache]

I agree, come on...a 100K invested.  

I bet it's not that hard to do. There are guys in our local car club that have spent $20,000 on PAINT alone for their car.

Restore a car say over 10 years. Every nut and colt replaced. Every tiny little detail done. Every part top of the line. Shopped out a lot of work and now you're paying wages. It can all add up fast.

A really good engine build can add a lot of cost. One cousin spent $10,000 on his engine rebuild for his Mustang. The other cousin spent $30,000 on his (granted it's a blown Hemi ).

[firefighter3931]

And regarding the other 69, it was an R/T SE, which as you know is going to be worth more in the end than an XP car. The sad reality, is that it costs the same to restore an XP car as it does an XS car, but the XS car will be worth much more in the end.

Again, sorry to hear of your friend's situation

The sad reality is that people place more value on a digit in the vin tag than the condition of the car.    Personally, i could care less if it's a 318 car as long as it's been built solid. Only misguided fools pay extra for the bragging rights to a vin. My feeling has allways been that a lower performance level car is a better platform to build from in terms of a starting point. Less twisted/ripped sheetmetal, straighter frames etc...

For the record, my 68 has been appraised at 80K and i've turned down more than that from a high end collector. I built it for me to enjoy and the way i wanted it built. Someone that really knows cars will see this car eventually and realize that the cost of labor alone exceeds the asking price for this car....and will make a smart purchase.


Ron

[Drache]

The sad reality is that people place more value on a digit in the vin tag than the condition of the car.    Personally, i could care less if it's a 318 car as long as it's been built solid. Only misguided fools pay extra for the bragging rights to a vin. My feeling has allways been that a lower performance level car is a better platform to build from in terms of a starting point. Less twisted/ripped sheetmetal, straighter frames etc...

See and there is the thing. If you take an R/T and yet totally customize it to the car you want, then you ARE just bragging about a letter in the VIN. But take a full on numbers matching R/T then yes you can brag a bit about it being a real R/T I guess if it was restored back to original specs.

Take two Chargers and build them the EXACT same though. Why does one letter on the VIN make one worth more?

"My Charger is a 1 of 100 R/T with the options on the Fender Tag!"

"What is one of those rare options?"

"The engine!"

"Is that the original engine in the car?"

"Nope it didn't have the original engine so I put something completely different in there!"

[ACUDANUT]

imo. only a original Hemi car could ever be worth a 100K investment.

[Troy]

I find it interesting that people still don't know what it costs to build one of these things (which also explains how some people dump a TON of money into a not-so-rare car). For example, I paid $11k for one car and was quoted $8k to paint it. I must say that both are smoking hot deals as I would expect the car itself to be $13-15k and the paint/body to be $12-15k (for the way I expect it to be done). Heck, the paint materials alone are $2k+. Ok, so that gets me a clean body on a cart.

Now buy/build the 440 ($4500), refurbish the carb ($450), update the ignition ($300), refurbish the air cleaner ($100), restore/new alternator ($200), restore/new starter ($100), new battery ($100-250), new battery cables ($50-150), clean/coat the exhaust manifolds ($400), replace the wiring ($1,500) build the transmission ($1k), new clutch and PP ($700), refurbish/replace clutch linkage ($400), rebuilt/upgrade steering box ($500), new torsion bars and rear springs ($600), restore the k-frame and rear axle ($500), refurbish/new rear gears ($500-1k), restore brakes ($300-600), new fuel and brake lines ($400), front suspension rebuilt kit ($300), shocks ($200-500), miscellaneous hardware ($200-500), wheels/tires ($1,200 - 2,500), and any labor paid to a "professional" ($200-2,000). Ok, so now it runs and rolls.

Replace headliner, insulation, seat covers, seat backs, seat foam, door panels, door pads, dash pad, arm rests, arm rest bases, package tray, head rests, and carpet ($2k-3k depending on if/where you get the pads), refurbish the dash frame ($50-300), restore the gauge cluster and switches ($1,500), restore the wiper motor and arms ($200-400), restore the steering column ($600-1k), restore the steering wheel ($50-800), repair/replace console, shifter, and trim ($1k-2k), replace window cranks and door handles ($300), restore/replace rear view mirror ($30-150), restore the heater box ($100-500), replace firewall insulation ($100), interior screw kit ($50), polish interior door trim ($50-250), fix the radio ($400), and more "professional" labor. Ok, so now we can sit and drive around the block.

Repair and paint the grill ($500-2,000), refurbish/replace grill trim ($250-300), repair headlight vacuum hoses ($50-150), blast/repaint bumper brackets ($50-200), rechrome/new bumpers and bumperettes ($700-1,500), replace grill, tail, and sail panel emblems ($250-500), refurbish/new side markers ($200-500 - mine's a 68), refurbish tail lights ($500-1k), refurbish/new front marker/turn signal lights ($200-400), refurbish/new hood turn signals ($100-250), new/rechromed outer door handles ($200-500), rechrome vent window frames ($300), new door, hood, trunk, and window seals/weatherstripping ($600), restore/new outside mirror(s) ($200-500), restore/new antenna and nut ($20-200), body bumper kit ($50), polish trunk, drip rail, wheel opening, and door trim ($300-800), rebuild door hinges ($30-300), new washer bottle ($35), lots of miscellaneous hardware ($50-500), and more "professional" labor. Ok, so now the outside looks good. and all systems are functional.

I am positive I missed a bunch of things but the "ballpark figure" for my car comes in at a little over $52k with me doing all the work except engine/trans/rear gear building and body work. External labor is a real killer. A common figure thrown out for restoration is 1,000-1,200 hours (which, I think, is still low). Shops in my area charge ~$45 per hour while shops on either coast are $60-80 per hour. Even farming out half the labor would run $22,500-48,000. So, it's easy to see my car coming real close - if not topping - $100k. For someone who paid a shop to build the car it would be incredibly easy - they could have that much in labor alone!

If you truly want a concourse restoration tack on 30-60% more for digging up NOS parts.

Now, this is for a car that has been completely torn down and every part replaced/restored. People who are happy to live with with pitted chrome, scratched/dented trim, dings/chips in the paint, on engine that "works", and worn interior probably can't fathom spending that amount on a car. That doesn't mean it is impossible or that a seller is lying about their claims. I can't imagine doing it to every car I own - I just don't have the money for it and I don't pamper my cars once they are drivable.

Troy

[Ghoste]

Members here also need to realize that for some reason, in Canada, 2nd Gen Chargers command a lot more money than others. If that car was a real R/T then you'd be seeing another $10,000 onto that price.

I don't know that I necessarily agree with that.

[Drache]

Members here also need to realize that for some reason, in Canada, 2nd Gen Chargers command a lot more money than others. If that car was a real R/T then you'd be seeing another $10,000 onto that price.

I don't know that I necessarily agree with that.

It is around here in the western states it seems. I think I've seen only a single restored 2nd Gen R/T for under $40,000 

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

The "Arrow" car discussed in this thread, complete w/ a "bid" w/in $200.00 of their reserve... Still a no-sale  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,85715.50.html

Peeling paint (supposedly...)
Bungee cord holding down the battery...
Door pin issue...
Heater box not installed...

What else?

I said I'd give $20k for this, but in the meantime, bought another SUV for a little more dough  

[Patronus]

When I first saw the title of this thread I knew exactly who you were talking about... and I aint never met the guy..

[firefighter3931]

I said I'd give $20k for this

I'm sure you would....man a lot of lowball tire kickers these days.    Good luck in your search for a "budget" Charger at what you're willing to pay.  


Ron

[ACUDANUT]

His price is very reasonable, regardless if he really spent "100k" on it.  Firefighter, I am just saying I could have done that same quality of restoration for under 50k, that's all. This economy is making most people not spend money on pricey classic cars.  I wish him well.  
I am not a hater.  

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

His price is very reasonable, regardless if he really spent "100k" on it.  Firefighter, I am just saying I could have done that same quality of restoration for under 50k, that's all. This economy is making most people not spend money on pricey classic cars.  I wish him well.  
I am not a hater.  

I just wouldn't give his asking price, but now I am beating a dead horse...

[Ghoste]

Especially on anything "clone".  Not a hater either and in fact, if it were another color I'd be seriously looking at dragging a trailer up to Belleville.

[1974dodgecharger]

I said I'd give $20k for this

I'm sure you would....man a lot of lowball tire kickers these days.    Good luck in your search for a "budget" Charger at what you're willing to pay.  


Ron

you can find some chargers that run 20k that are daily drivers, granted NOT beauty queens, but daily drivers that are very nice in my eyes. I mean heck we got a member asking 15k for his charger in pittsburgh that i would pay for it easily and all he needs is a bleed brake, but toehr thant well worth it and then you have 5k left to dump more into to buy things.

[moparfan53]

 I see it is back on ebay with starting bid of $200, this time with no reserve. Might be a deal there for somebody.   I think a lot of us can relate to his frustration with the buyers/lookers he describes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-CHARGER-SE-R-T-clone-440-Magnum-Performance-NO-RESERVE-/130675422887?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1e6cdcb6a7

[myk]

It sucks to see someone have to take it in the gut, like he is.  Good luck to him...

[1974dodgecharger]

I see it is back on ebay with starting bid of $200, this time with no reserve. Might be a deal there for somebody.   I think a lot of us can relate to his frustration with the buyers/lookers he describes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-CHARGER-SE-R-T-clone-440-Magnum-Performance-NO-RESERVE-/130675422887?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1e6cdcb6a7

how much did it end up last time>?

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Maybe I will add this 69 to my stable at that price