Windage losses

[Ghoste]

Kind of a pointless question but it's late on a cold day in January, so...
Some of you guys that have built a lot of engines, do you get hung up a lot in trying to control windage loss?  I'm mean beside the obvious thing like adding a tray.  Do you get into knife edging the crank or adding a scraper, a homemade specialized tray, teflon coated, anything like that?

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Dyno sessions have proved that windage trays will produce a few more HP, and it has been the accepted way to go for many years, but I have disassembled about a hundred engines over the last thirty years, and one thing became evident. The engines that didn't have trays always showed less cylinder wall wear than those that did, so I quit using them several years ago, as I will gladly trade a "half tenth", for many thousand more miles in a street/strip car.

Race only would be a different story, but it's been a lot of years since I had a race only car. New cars even go so far as to have oil squirter's that spray oil up into the cylinders on the bottom of the pistons for durability (kind of an "anti" windage tray approach).

I particularly don't use them anymore on engines with aftermarket rods, as they don't have the cylinder squirt hole built in like most stockers do. --- I guess it's old age, but I will take longevity/durability any day over a HP increases that you can count on one hand.

[Ghoste]

Well, to be honest, when I threw the post up here, I was thinking more just as it pertained to performance.  You bring up a point that I had never heard of before though and it's a good one.

[doctorpimp]

This is an amazing topic!
I always thought a windage tray was a necessity in a Hi-Po engine and was benificial to the engine for HP without harm.
It does make me think twice about it for street, I want longevity as well.

[Ghoste]

What about the race builders, nobody gonna wade in with any secrets here?

[firefighter3931]

Lets just say that i allways run a windage tray....keeps oil in the sump instead of being pulled from the pan...away from the pickup. 

Ron

[Ghoste]

What about any of the other stuff?

[firefighter3931]

What about any of the other stuff?

What other stuff ?

Ron

[Ghoste]

Knife edging the crank, teflon coatings, scrapers, that sort of thing.

[firefighter3931]

Knife edging the crank, teflon coatings, scrapers, that sort of thing.

Can't honestly say i've bothered with all that stuff. Just a good balance job, proper main/rod clearances and lots of oil pressure/volume seems to work for me. My stuff never sees the high side of 6500 rpm anyway. 

Ron

[Jon Smith]

maybe the engine with trays had more wear because they had been driven harder

[firefighter3931]

maybe the engine with trays had more wear because they had been driven harder

Yep, i was thinking the same thing. Most non-hp c-body engines were babied and never saw the high side of 4500 rpm.

Ron

[deputycrawford]

Has anybody ever done a back to back comparison of a windage tray race motor to a non windage tray race motor? You could be on to something. The windage tray motors are purpose built for hard driving. That could be the difference. I would think a person that spends the time and thought into a hi-pro motor would have the tray put in. The C body owner might not put that much effort into the build.

[Ghoste]

I don't know that I've ever heard of a non tray race motor.  I'm sure they're out there, I just can't think of any right now.  Stock eliminator I suppose?