noisy lifter, oil consumption, fouled plug, low compression... UPDATE

[471_Magnum]

My problem child small block stroker continues to please and disappoint.

Darn thing runs great, but at the same time, it's got what sounds like a noisy lifter, and some oil consumption through the #5 cylinder.

I spent a lot of time dealing with a crappy set of heads last year that I thought were the source of all my agony. I upgraded to a set of RHS heads that I thought would solve all my problems.

While dealing with the previous head issue, there was always nagging lifter noise that just wouldn't subside. No amount of preload adjustment would make it go away. So I'm wondering if I have a bum lifter in there too. At the time I installed the new heads, I debating popping in a new set of lifters, but elected not to. Now I wish I had.

Meanwhile, my #5 plug is getting oil fouled. It has historically been a problem, fouling up worse than the others when I was dealing with the massive guide leakage previously. My oil consumption is greatly reduced with the new heads, but a spot check on the plugs shows the #5 fouled and wet with oil.

I ran a compression check last night and found the #5 20 lbs lower than the other seven. The other 7 cranked at 210 cold. The #5 would only crank up to 190. By itself that wouldn't cause much alarm, but coupled with the oil consumption and fouled plug I'm thinking I've got a bad ring seal.

Might the two issues be related? I think it's unlikely, but I'll be looking extra closely and the #5 lifters when I open up the motor again.

At this point I'm trying to decide whether or not to do yet another partial tear down to replace the #5 ring pack. Thoughts?

[firefighter3931]

I'd warm the engine up to operating temp and check again. If #5 is still down 20 psi then perform a wet test and see if the number increases. If so you know that there's a ring seal issue.

I can't see how a partially collapsed lifter is creating oil in the chamber & plug fouling.


Ron

[471_Magnum]

I think #5 is plenty wet already judging by the oil on the plug.

I've got to pull the manifold to get to the lifters, so if the oil is coming from up top, I'll be able to see it. This is a repeat issue though and there was no evidence of the oil coming in through the intake before. I looked at this pretty closely when dealing with the head fiasco, I just assumed the 5 guide was worse than the others.

I'm with you on the lifter being unrelated.

I'm so sick of f**king with this thing....

[Challenger340]

I Machine and Build Street and Competition Engines for a living.....and run everything we build on the DYNO.....in the Customers presence..no exceptions.

I've literally been to HELL and BACK, dealing with Hydraulic Lifter problems on Mopars....
long story short here.....
IMO,
1.) High Performance Engines are NOT built using Hydraulic Lifters of ANY KIND, Flat tappet or Roller...
and,
2.) If you absolutely MUST have a Hydraulic type Lifter of some kind....contact Topline Johnson DIRECTLY(The LAST Genuine NORTH AMERICAN Manufacturer), and find a GENUINE retailer close to you, or buy from them DIRECTLY.

Waaay too many "offshore" Chinese Lifter bodies, showing up from the likes of Delphi and EATON Corp etc., being re-Boxed in EVERYBODY's Boxes from CompCams to Lunati, etc., etc.
I can now visually "recognize" the Zhang Zhou Corp Lifters, in EVERYBODY's elses Boxes, except Topline Johnson because they are the only Guys still making their own.

Contact Topline Johnson DIRECTLY !

[471_Magnum]

Contact Topline Johnson DIRECTLY !

Contact info please.

[1BAD68]

May not be related but sounds familiar to my 318/390 stroker.
#5 plug seems oily while all other's a perfect tan color. Lifter noise especially at start up/warm up and then comes and goes randomly.
I was running Rotella 15W40 and then switched to Brad Penn 20W50 last summer. After about 500 miles since oil change, the lifter noise is almost completely gone.
No lifter noise at start up but sometimes after a hard acceleration it will come back but only for a minute then it's gone.

[471_Magnum]

I've ordered new Comp Cams lifters and ring pack for the #5. As I tear it down, hopefully an obvious cause will be revealed.

If I find obvious damage on the #5 lifters, I'll probably just replace the set and button it back up. At that point other than the lifters, I'll only have invested time and an intake gasket set.

I'm highly skeptical the two problems are related though

[justcruisin]

Yep, I totally agree with Challenger340, I had a problem on my fresh rebuild, the engine would back fire after a rev, loose vacuum, stumble and and generally run like crap, not all the time but regularly. The hydraulic lifters I used were comp and I had to return the first lot due to pitting in the lifter bodies. Once I had the motor up and running I had these issues, I pulled the manifold and checked every thing I could, even sent the heads out to a shop to check for something I had over looked, no problems. I swapped the lifters for some Hylift Johnsons, no problems since.

[471_Magnum]

Again, contact info Hylift Johnson? Where to order?

I did order Comps Pro Magnum lifters, which I believe are a step above what came with my cam kit.

[471_Magnum]

Took the intake off and got instant confirmation of the problem. There is definitely a lifter problem AND it's on the #5 intake.

Unfortunately, it's not a collapsed lifter.

Lifter carnage (photo).

Checked the other fifteen lifters and they showed no signs of wear, but unfortunately, it only takes one.

This is a fairly recent development. I've had the top of that motor apart more times than I care to admit. Each time I inspected the lifters for wear.

The obvious question is why, and why now and not 2000 miles ago. I realize once the surface hardness wears off the wear accelerates once the lifter stops rotating.

I haven't been too particular about the brand oil I run, but I've poured in half a bottle of Comp Cams additive at each change.

Cam is a Comp Cams XE274H. Nothing too crazy.

[RECHRGD]

Dang!!!!!  What does the cam lobe look like?

[Nacho-RT74]

well I hope won't have on a problem like that... I'm using Elgin lifters

now, I can't see the relation between the lifter failure and the oil consumption with the spark plug being oil fouled



how that can happen ?

[firefighter3931]

Crap ! 

So what's the plan now ?   

I'm guessing that the lifter trash has ruined the bearings and scored the crank....


Ron

[471_Magnum]

I'm guessing that the lifter trash has ruined the bearings and scored the crank...

Lord I hope not. I'll drop the pan to inspect the bearings. As stated previously, nothing in the way the car was performing indicated there was a problem.

A complete tear-down just isn't in the budget.

[471_Magnum]

Dropped the pan and the 2 & 4 main caps. Bearings are toast. Crank actually looks okay based on the limited inspection.

It all needs to come apart.

[firefighter3931]

Sorry to hear that Jim....really sucks ! 

Fwiw, i've been using Brad Penn racing 20/50 semi synthetic for the past few years with excellent results.   



Ron

[tan top]

aww man thats a bummer  
strange just one lifter , wonder if its slightly tighter in the  bore that the rest  

[471_Magnum]

I probably botched the preload.

This cam and lifters had been noisy. I re-adjusted the pre-load several times to get it just right. Probably had that one a bit too tight.

Could have been other issues. Probably never know for sure.

Time to choose a new cam!

[Chryco Psycho]

the new oils rated SM or SN will not keep a cam alive , they are all tailored for roller lifters now , this is typical , the lifter may have stopped rotating or the oil may have failed either way you have to go through the engine again .

[Challenger340]

Contact Topline Johnson DIRECTLY !

Contact info please.

http://www.toplineauto.com/index.asp

The above is a link to the main website, you will have to use the "contact" from there and wait for them to get back to you.....

CompCams are re-boxing as well, lotsa Chinese stuff in their boxes as well.....

Very sorry for your plight, that SUCKS...

[471_Magnum]

http://www.toplineauto.com/index.asp

The above is a link to the main website, you will have to use the "contact" from there and wait for them to get back to you.....

CompCams are re-boxing as well, lotsa Chinese stuff in their boxes as well.....

Very sorry for your plight, that SUCKS...

I did contact Topline the other day and got a quote on their B-2011R race lifters. At $5.39 each, they are a good bargain. I'll be getting a set. FWIW, their standard B-2011 lifter is priced at $3.99.

I had already ordered a set of Comp Cams lifters that arrived the other day. No country of origin noted on the packaging. That's bullshit. I'm not even sure it's legal. They're going back.

[Nacho-RT74]

I can't see the relation between the lifter failure and the oil consumption with the spark plug being oil fouled



how that can happen ?

[471_Magnum]

Took the day off work today to get the motor out. I was actually more productive than I anticipated. Not only did I get it pulled (before lunch), but also torn down.

That's the good news.

Bad news is that the crank will definitely at least need to be polished. Main and rod bearings are toast. Cam bearings maybe okay.

Biggest concern is the cylinder bores and piston skirts. Lots of scuffing on the skirts and corresponding wear in the bores. Pictured is the #7 bore which appears to be the worst.

Taking block and crank to the machine shop tomorrow. Hoping I can get away with a light honing on the cylinders and polishing the crank. Stay tuned.

[471_Magnum]

Machine shop called.

Block will clean up with a hone. Crank will need to go 10/10.

Crank was on the tight side with a hint of warp out of the box. Looking on the bright side, at least that will get corrected.

[BrianShaughnessy]

If you have / had adjustable rockers...  why not just go mild solid like a .528 and use Howards type lifters with the direct lube holes? 

Anymore I tell people good luck when they say they're gonna put in a hydraulic cam.