Removing my 383 engine for class. Needs tips. (Update 03/18/2012 ALL DONE!)

[Supercharged Riot]

**I have never done this before**

Engine: 383 (casting # unknown)
Transmission: A833 (4 speed)
Rear End: Dana 60

Hey guys.

The situation:
I'm taking an engine rebuilding class.
I got a deadline to get the engine out of the car in 1 week or else I fall behind in class and forced to drop the class.
The car is at home, but I was told I can get the car to class only for 1 day to remove the engine.
It cannot stay over night. No exceptions.


What I have done so far:
Radiator removed
I drained the coolant
I drained the motor oil.


What I think I should do next:
I think I'm supposed to clear out the engine bay so that I don't risk damaging my parts
Can I just unbolt the A833 from the engine and remove the engine alone and keep the A833 in the car?? or should I take out the transmission with it? (I don't have space to store the transmission outside of the car)

Drain the transmission oil (I dunno where or how. is it easy?)
Drain the brake fluid
Remove the steering wheel components
Remove all electrical wires
Detach the headers (might be tricky taking the engine out with headers attached?)
Detach


I need your professional suggestions since I'm in a time crunch to keep up with class and I really want to start working on the engine.
Is there a general check-off list procedure for the order of things to remove?

Thanks alot

[RallyeMike]

What I think I should do next:
I think I'm supposed to clear out the engine bay so that I don't risk damaging my parts Not really, though you should remove the radiator.
Can I just unbolt the A833 from the engine and remove the engine alone and keep the A833 in the car?? or should I take out the transmission with it? (I don't have space to store the transmission outside of the car) Either way will work.

Drain the transmission oil (I dunno where or how. is it easy?) There is no drain plug. It will come out the tailshaft if you decide to take the trans out with the engine.
Drain the brake fluid Why? No need.
Remove the steering wheel components Why? No need.
Remove all electrical wires. Just unplug everything off the engine and lay it back out of the way. No need to remove everything.
Detach the headers (might be tricky taking the engine out with headers attached?) You have to detach the headers at the head flange minimum. Probably at the collector too.

Based on these questions, if you really are in a crunch, I would find an experienced volunteer to help you. Its way easier with two people anyway, though one can certainly do it.

[resq302]

Remove all of the accessory stuff like the alternator, A/C compressor, radiator, power steering pump and lines, fan, water pump pulley, master pulley, carb, and any other excess lines that will be in your way (like electrical wires, heater hoses, vacuum hoses, etc.) 

You can take the trans out with the engine attached or unbolt it from the bell housing.  Either way, it can be done, its personal preference.  If you do decide to remove the trans with the engine, there is a drain bolt on the lower side of the trans.  Should be lower and more centered than where the fill is.

As for the headers, you might have to unbolt them from the head and also undo them at the collector.  I am not 100% sure on this as I have never had a car with headers.

[Troy]

Don't mess with the steering or brakes.

Basically removing the engine in one of these cars is pretty simple. Remove the air cleaner and fan so you can get to everything else. Disconnect everything that is attached to the engine on one end and the car on the other (fuel line, battery ground, electrical connections, throttle cable, vacuum lines, etc.). Make sure you mark everything you remove and save the hardware individually (sandwich bags with labels are a good idea). Pictures can help when it's time to put it all back together. The exhaust is probably easiest to remove at the header collector to pipe connection - but you may still need to remove the headers to get the engine all the way out (some have the steering linkage bound up in there). You'll have more room to maneuver (especially when pulling the trans) if you remove the pulleys, belts, and accessories from the front. Leave the balancer on (big disc that the lower puller is bolted to).

If you have nowhere to put the transmission then leave it in the car - or it will easily fit in the trunk once disconnected. Some of the bolts on the bell housing can be a pain to remove while in the car but it's still less effort than removing it all. You'll need a way to support it though! The engine typically holds up the front end. You'll need disconnect the clutch fork linkage to take pressure off the throwout bearing. Then slide the engine forward several inches to clear the input shaft. Roughly the process is to raise the engine and trans a bit, slide the engine forward without allowing the trans to drop or bind, and then raise straight up once they are separated.

If you remove the trans as an assembly you need to disconnect the drive shaft (undo the rear universal joint and slide it backwards). You'll also have to disconnect all the clutch linkage, remove the shifter (or at least the handle), and disconnect the wiring. If you have a console it will have to come out to access the shifter. You'll need a good way to tilt the whole deal as it won't go straight out. I use a "load leveler" and will sometimes raise the back of the car with a jack so the engine/trans doesn't have to be tilted excessively.

Even though you've drained the coolant there will likely still be some in the engine passages. You'll likely make a mess when tilting/swinging the engine while trying to get it out.

Troy

[elacruze]

It's really as easy as it sounds, you just have to stick with it.

First, pay very close attention to details. If you forget to disconnect one wire or fuel line you'll pull it out and be sorry.

I'd leave the trans in the car. Disconnect the driveshaft from the rear axle, leave the nose in the trans. Get some 4x4s and towels to block the trans when it comes out-it's heavy, if you're not a bullmoose you'll probably need a floor jack.

Most times you can take the headers off the heads and get the motor out without a lot of drama.

An engine hook with the crank to adjust fore/aft height is a great help, otherwise you'll at least scratch something and have more work. Be very careful not to snag the harmonic damper on the radiator core support-depending on your bellhousing, the clearance between the firewall and core support is pretty tight.

Prepare whatever you're going to set the engine on beforehand so you can get it off the hook as soon as possible.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Supercharged -    

Follow the steps:

1. Remove supercharger and intake manifold (store in safe location)
2. Remove hood of the car
3. Drain and remove radiator & disconnect heater hoses if equipped. Also disconnect power steering lines if equipped.
4. Crawl under car and remove the driveshaft, and drain the transmission (small drain plug on the bottom side of it), Also disconnect 4-speed linkage at the frame rail by removing the ball stud from the bracket - allowing you to remove the "Z" bar. Disconnect reverse light wiring and speedo cable. Remove the transmission cross member
5. Go into the car and remove the shift boot ring and boot, remove the shifter handle.
6. Engine bay - disconnect and label all wiring from the engine - does not need to be completely removed from engine bay - just disconnected from the engine and "peeled back" out of the way. Drain the engine oil while doing this.
7. Bolt on a chain for the engine hoist to grab - I highly recommend an engine tilter that will allow you to pivot the engine on the way in and out (harbor freight sells a decent one)
8. Remove the motor mount bolts and unbolt the headers. Then disconnect the fuel line.
9. Move the engine hoist into position and remove the engine / transmission combo by hoisting.
10. Once removed from the car, separate the transmission / bellhousing from the engine and store under the car.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head...     

[Supercharged Riot]

Excellent help as always guys ! Thanks for giving me the procedure. I'll post pics. It's time for me to start working on my car this year 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Hey Riot - you're local to southern Ca aren't you? If you need a hand this coming week shoot me a PM - Be willing to come give you a hand.   

[Supercharged Riot]

02/27/2012

All labeled up

The following has been removed thus far:
Spark plugs
Alternator
Blower belt & brackets
Pulleys
Engine temperature sensor
Radiator

[resq302]

Power steering pump would either need to be disconnected from the engine and moved to the side or have the hoses disconnected in order to get the engine out.  What I did when I pulled my engine was just unbolt it from the engine and move it off to the side.  (less messy)

[elacruze]

Labels, lots of labels. I like your attention to detail.

[404NOTFOUND]

And don't forget safety. When you rush, you f*** up. Once you get that engine high in the air, there should be no reason to put your hands between the bottom of the engine and the car. Make sure the floor is swept under the engine hoist so it rolls easily and evenly and move it slowly. If you are working in a large shop, you can even push back the now much lighter car instead while the engine hangs motionless. Watch for anything you might have forgotten to disconnect. Personally, I've done this different ways. I prefer to disconnect the headers and leave the transmission in the car. When it's time to put the engine back in and you are reconnecting the engine to the transmission, remember what they taught you in health class. "Never force it, it slides right in"

[Supercharged Riot]

02/29/2012

Progress from last night. I removed the following:

Hilborn Air Scoop
Carburetors
Throttle cable connection to the carburetors
Power steering pump






I got a couple questions:

1) I am leaving the transmission in the car. I will only pull the engine out. Do I still need to drain my transmission? Will the transmission fluid leak if I disconnect the engine from it?

2) I ran into a problem when I took a look at my rear exhaust system (see pictures below). The nut & bolt that holds it in place in the rear of the car are WELDED!!!?? Is there a way to break the bolt without some torch? I am trying to get it off before I get it towed to class this Friday. Ideas will be greatly appreciated.

3) Do I need to remove the starter also? It looks hard to get to with my hears in the way. (I cannot remove the hears right now either. Not enough room while the engine is still sitting in the engine bay).




yes. this one is also welded too.

[nvrbdn]

id cut the bolt with a hand grinder. no, you wont lose fluid from removing the engine, but once the engine is loose and out, the front of the tranny should be supported up. when im removing an engine, i take styrofoam and push the bolts into it and mark on it where each group of bolts comes from. you can do the same with zip lock bags. i just like the styrofoam. the starter needs to come out cuz its bolted to the trans housing but lines up with the flywheel that comes out with the motor. the exhaust manifold should come off.even if you have to take out the motormount bolts and lift up a few inches before you take out the transmission bolts.but if you have manifold instead of hedders,you should be able to get the starter out from the bottom. you also have to take out the torque convertor bolts underneath.

[nvrbdn]

ok, you have hedders as i see in the pic. un bolt the hedder from the head. un bolt the motor mounts. keep the trans mounting bolts in and lift the engine till the hedder can be removed from the studs and let it slide down a little. the motor should be able to be lowered back down on the motor mounts so you can get to the starter. the hedders can just sit there while the motor is removed. make sure you have removed the collector bolts so the hedder is free to move around. the passenger side is easier to deal with.

[Supercharged Riot]

I have an manual A833 four speed transmission! same suggestion applies?

[nvrbdn]

nope if its a 4 speed, read troys post on the trans, but the starter still comes off with the hedders being removed the same way. the clutch and pressure plate will come out with the motor so no torque convertor bolts.

[Supercharged Riot]

02/29/2012

Nothing new to report on my mission to prep engine removal.
I only removed one thing tonight:

6-71 Blower

Should I take off my blower intake manifold? or should I keep it on so that the engine hoist has something to hold on to?


Farewell my friend. I don't think this will be on my car again.

[404NOTFOUND]

You can send that part to me to save you the trouble of reinstalling it.

[Troy]

I'd take the manifold off and bolt your lifting chain directly to the heads. Use good bolts!

Yes, the starter has to come off. Your trans won't leak from the front (normally at least) but you should support the front end in some way (I stack short pieces of 2x4 that I have laying around).

You probably don't have to disconnect the rear of the exhaust. Your headers (if you leave them attached) won't allow it to drop much in front any way. If you do want to take them off then cut the bolts. If you don't have a good grinder or air tools this could be time-consuming though and I don't believe it's necessary at this time.

Troy

[resq302]

When I had my engine out, I ended up wrapping a chain around the torsion bars to hold the trans up so it did not drop and damage the trans mount.  Probably could have even gotten away with putting a piece of 2x4 between the torsion bars and the trans to hold it in place too if I had one big enough.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Since your engine bay is all painted why not drop the k member/suspension/wheels and all out the bottom ? Once out unbolt the engine mounts and yank the motor then put the k member and suspension back up in place. I'd hate to scratch up the paint going out the top.

[Supercharged Riot]

Just taking a minute to post my progress tonight....

I took Troy & nvrbdn's advice and got a hand grinder with a cutting edge from Harbor Freight.
From a novice to a pro, Thanks Troy & nvrbdn! It worked out great.
My exhaust system is now free! (see pics below)

I can at least remove the exhaust system on the passenger side so that I have one less thing to worry about

I have another question. My A833 is kind of propped up with I think it called the transmission cross member (see pics below)
It doesn't look like this will keep the transmission in the car by itself am I correct?

I have to get AAA to tow my car back home, so I need a suggestion about whether I should pull the transmission out with the engine.
Otherwise, I'll just ask my teacher, but I thought I'd ask you guys first since some of you know Chargers better than I do.

I'm getting the engine removed in class (I'm using their engine hoist) and I have to take my Charger home the same day by the end of class.





I used this affordable tool to cut through the welds on the nut & bolt that held my exhaust system in a permanent position.




Now both can be screwed out with ease

[Supercharged Riot]

ok, you have hedders as i see in the pic. un bolt the hedder from the head. un bolt the motor mounts. keep the trans mounting bolts in and lift the engine till the hedder can be removed from the studs and let it slide down a little. the motor should be able to be lowered back down on the motor mounts so you can get to the starter. the hedders can just sit there while the motor is removed. make sure you have removed the collector bolts so the hedder is free to move around. the passenger side is easier to deal with.

I will use this advice. Thanks!

[nvrbdn]

if you are removing the trans, you have to disconnect the shift lever from the trans. drop the drive shaft. there will be four bolts on the rear end to remove to take the drive shaft down.unbolt the trans from the cross member, take down the cross member, then unbolt the trans from the bell housing. there will be four bolts for the trans. slide the trans back. it will be a little heavy if your laying on your back, so a jack might help support it. then take the clutch fork out of the bell housing and the clutch, pressure plate and bell housing can go out with the motor, or you can remove them while your under the car now. its up to you.