69 fenders

[69 rt]

Can anyone tell me why the fenders for a 69 charger are not available through after market manufacturers/ Lord knows they could get enough for them.

[Old Moparz]

Tooling costs are expensive, & since there were a small number of Chryslers built compared to other makes, like Ford Mustangs & Chevy Camaros, the return on the investment wouldn't be worth it to the company doing it. It was only the last few years that the after market saw Mopars being worth the effort for sheet metal. They started with the Challenger, moved on to the Barracuda, & now the Road Runner is promised. I'm just as surprised that the Charger wasn't in the mix, but maybe we'll get lucky if the others actually sell. The really sad part is that all these parts were needed 25 years ago.

[Troy]

Several reasons probably.
1. They are a one-year only part - although the same tooling could be used for 68.
2. They are a one model only part - unlike a windshield, console, or trunk pan.
3. They are complex units made up of multiple parts - unlike rear valences or rear window finish panels.
4. They don't usually rust out nearly as bad as the rear of the car so demand is slightly lower than quarters, wheelhouses, or quarter patches.
5. The original tooling is gone so someone would need a high quality set to copy.
6. They are large and tooling will be expensive. So will shipping when they are finished.

All this possibly adds up to more than the average customer is willing to spend. Goodmark made the full rear quarters for Challengers (which fit multiple years) but the cost at $600 each has made many people shy away. I don't know that the cost of original fenders has gotten to the point where the average person would rather pay $600-700+ for a reproduction. You can do a lot of bodywork/repair for that kind of money.

Troy

[Mike DC]

It basically costs a million dollars to create the tooling to stamp one major panel (like a front fender or a quarter panel skin).  That's a lot of repro panels to sell before they make their money back. 

The production numbers are another problem.  Hundreds of thousands of Mustangs & Camaros were made each year in those days.  On the other hand, the 1970-74 E-body Mopars only ever sold about 25,000 of each car per year. 

Fenders are also bolted on from the factory.  So it has traditionally been much easier to get used fenders than used rear quarter skins.  That's why you can buy quarter skins (crappy ones), but not fenders yet.

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The 1968-69 Chargers totalled about 170,000 cars.  That's decent.  We're probably gonna get reproductions of the fenders eventually but the prices of the used ones have to go up some more and the demand has to stay steady.

There's no excuse for why we can't buy reproductions of the 1969 plastic front grilles yet.  That particular part should have been repro'd many years ago. 

.

[Old Moparz]

The used fenders are very high right now when you see them. There were 3 at last year's Carlisle show between $450 & $650 each. Right now, there is one on ebay with the bids stuck at $800. The Challenger fenders are supposed to be available soon, but I don't know what the price is supposed to be. $600 for a full quarter isn't too bad considering the price on NOS. Heck, a used quarter that was cut & drilled went for $800 recently.

I'd pay $600 for the quarters, I think that is reasonable, but I wish they made them thicker. If the fenders are in the same $600 range, I think that would be okay as well & I'd pay it. Actually, instead of paying mega bucks for a rusty Barracuda fender for my car I will buy them for that price. If they are  substantially more, like over $1000 each, screw it, I'll patch the ones I have on the car for a lot less since it'll never be a trailer queen or compete for points.

[69 rt]

Thanks for the info guys, I am in need of a drivers side fender and a good hood, and am willing to pay the going rate if anyone can help me out it would be appreciated.
Thanks

[chargervert]

I paid $7500.00 for a pair of NOS Challenger convertible rear quarters,and $2500.00 for a pair of 69 Charger rear quarter cut offs from California! The $589.00 that Goodmark is charging is a bargain! I compared the Goodmark Challenger rear quarters to my NOS convertible panels,and the Goodmark panels are right on the money!

[Old Moparz]

Hey Pete,

Depending on your resto plans for the Challenger ragtop you have, for $7500, I'd try the Goodmark panels first to see how the car comes out. Do you need the entire panel for the car? Is it a Hemi car? If it comes out as nice as your Charger ragtop, leave it & sell them off again. If it doesn't come out that nice, hang on to the NOS pair & maybe try again. Not the most practical plan with the amount of work, but I'd be worried putting those quarters on if it were going to see the road.

[chargervert]

Hey Bob, I had originally put the first repro Challenger rear quarters on the car,the car is a 70 383 non R/T Challenger convertible. It's a plumcrazy purple car,with white top,and interior. It's a typical New England car,with rust in the usual spots! I was so unhappy with the fit of those panels,that I cut them back off! This is my wifes car,and we bought it from the original owner,so I plan on keeping the car! I didn't want to look at panels that I wasn;t happy with! So I bought a pair of hardtop cut offs from Tom,and Patty,who sell that California sheet metal,they were at Carlsile,they bring a lot of sheet metal out here from the west,when they come to the show! I paid good money for them too! A friend of mine bought a Challenger convertible,and the car came with two NOS rear quarters that the owner bought from Chrysler,in 1972! I asked my friend if I could template the NOS panels so I could cut the hardtop cutoffs to fit her car. When I went to make the templates,my friend told me he had sold the car,and that if I wanted the NOS panels,I could buy them on the payment plan! It was like looking at the holy grail to me! So I bought them! I was going to put them on the car,and be done with it! But my friends talked me out of using them on her car! They said that those belong on a Hemicar,or a sixpack car! Then Goodmark came out with the repro panels they offer now,so I decided to use those on her car,and template them from the NOS panels,that way if someone hits it,I would only be out $589.00,intead of $3750.00!

[Blown70]

Well

no one stated mopar people are notorious for complaining about the parts when they are available

Tom

[Chad L. Magee]

Seven years ago, I paid $350 for a pair of 69 Charger fenders that had rust holes the size of half dollars near the bottem of the back ends.  I really needed them in a trade (it was for a deal that got me my hemi car), so I included a 68 charger fender that was not rusty, just bent up, as patch repair parts.  The guy I got the rusty fenders from thought he had basically ripped me a new one, but I knew that the prices were just going to go up over time and I would have lost the deal had I waited for a cheaper pair.  The bad thing about all of this is that I gave a rust free pair of 69 fenders to a friend a few years before that for helping me tow a parts charger.  Now I wish I would have just paid a towing company for the tow........

[Mike DC]

Well
no one stated mopar people are notorious for complaining about the parts when they are available
Tom

I don't think we really demand any more than Ford & Chevy guys, we were just demanding levels of quality years ago that they are only starting to demand now.  But they still get the parts at all, and we don't. 

170,000 Chargers need fenders and we still don't have them.  If 170,000 Camaros needed a fender & the used ones were hitting $700, they'd have reproduced it already.

.

[Blown70]

Well
no one stated mopar people are notorious for complaining about the parts when they are available
Tom

I don't think we really demand any more than Ford & Chevy guys, we were just demanding levels of quality years ago that they are only starting to demand now.  But they still get the parts at all, and we don't. 

170,000 Chargers need fenders and we still don't have them.  If 170,000 Camaros needed a fender & the used ones were hitting $700, they'd have reproduced it already.

.

Well, I do not know.. I know some mopar hard cases that DISPISE the new metal.  I am telling you what I have heard in this area.  Maybe not where you are.  I had to get 1/4 for my 69 the guys at the shop (mostly chevy) said they were some of the nicest ones they had seen.   I am just stating what I have heard.

Tom

[Mike DC]

I could see Mopar guys being the pickiest of the big three.  But there are also a few picky Chevy guys who demand used factory sheetmetal over reproductions, too.  Maybe the Mopar hobby has more of them than average, but we're also working with less access to original parts than average too. 

I just think the pickiness thing is a bad rap that Mopar guys have gotten over the years.  Whenever we buy expensive replacement parts advertised as "exact duplicates of the originals," we demand that they look & fit & function just like the originals did.  How rude!

.

[Blown70]

I just think the pickiness thing is a bad rap that Mopar guys have gotten over the years.  Whenever we buy expensive replacement parts advertised as "exact duplicates of the originals," we demand that they look & fit & function just like the originals did.  How rude!

.

Well anyone that would think they would be exact should have there head examined cars from the factory were not exact..  

ALSO, Do you believe everything as advertised.  THEN I HAVE OCEAN FRONT PROPERTY IN AZ, CHEAP.... wanna buy it?

Also, understand,  I do believe being picky is good however when compaines will not make mopar products becasue they do not sell when an equal pannel or part will sell to a CHEVY or FORD guy.  Who do you think they will make parts for? 

Now I admit some of the first pannels were "SHIT" fully and completely..... But I have heard some people complain about the new challenger 1/4 the full ones.    Most here like them.... I guess a matter of opinion.

Tom

BTW get back to me about the AZ property..... Need to sell yeeeee hhhhaaaa

[HAZZARDJOHN]

I will Say that the mopar repro community is in serious need of expansion. When I was redoing the interior on my '66 Impala, I started buying Catalogs of all the impala repro companies and I got to tell you, if you have a frame and VIN you can build a car out of repro parts for a Chevy. It was great. All the little stupid parts I needed like the Convertible top front latch and new air conditioning vents. Heck I even got a reproduction tissue box holder for the front seat complete with the GM numbers on it and everthing. My charger, is a never ending assault on the pocket book and the eyes from browsing E-bay. I am not about to tell Year=one or whoever that they need to go broke over this, but it amazes me that There is just nothing out there for these cars! Were they just forgotten? Did not as many survive? What is the deal. What I have learned, as I am a Car guy not a Mopar, Chevy, or a Ford guy, is that if I ever want to fix up an old car again it is going to be one that I can get the parts for. I wil probaably just save my self the aggravation and buy cars that are already done though.

~HJ

[694spdRT]

If you think it is hard finding parts now you should have tried it about ten years ago. The reason you can buy more Chevy and Ford parts are the production numbers of cars built. Like it or not Mopars are a limited market from a business standpoint. I don't know the exact numbers but, I bet they made more Mustangs and Impalas in one year than all 2nd gens combined.

[chargervert]

I will Say that the mopar repro community is in serious need of expansion. When I was redoing the interior on my '66 Impala, I started buying Catalogs of all the impala repro companies and I got to tell you, if you have a frame and VIN you can build a car out of repro parts for a Chevy. It was great. All the little stupid parts I needed like the Convertible top front latch and new air conditioning vents. Heck I even got a reproduction tissue box holder for the front seat complete with the GM numbers on it and everthing. My charger, is a never ending assault on the pocket book and the eyes from browsing E-bay. I am not about to tell Year=one or whoever that they need to go broke over this, but it amazes me that There is just nothing out there for these cars! Were they just forgotten? Did not as many survive? What is the deal. What I have learned, as I am a Car guy not a Mopar, Chevy, or a Ford guy, is that if I ever want to fix up an old car again it is going to be one that I can get the parts for. I wil probaably just save my self the aggravation and buy cars that are already done though.

~HJ

Now you can build a 69 Camaro convertible,without using a single part that GM made! You dont even need a frame,or a VIN!

[bsakal]

My uncle has a TR6, even those cars have every piece of sheet metal available for them. And now someone is making frames too, all you need is a VIN and title to build a complete car, it's amazing.

I picked up a driver's fender for a 69 at carlisle last year for $400, keeping it as a spare, no rust, small dent.  Got lucky I guess. Two years ago I found a right lower fender section rust free for $35, just gotta look real hard. I'll keep my eyes open for a 69 fender for you though...

[Mike DC]

Chevy only produced about 100,000 1969 RS Camaros.  That car has its own unique plastic grille setup.
Mopar made 170,000 1968/69 Chargers.  2/3 of the tooling would apply to both years of plastic grilles.


The 1969 RS camaros got their nice repro grilles many years ago.  The used Charger grilles are $1000 on Ebay, and there's still no repros in sight.

.

[AdamMopar]

I would give anything for a new set of metal fenders that even looked close to correct.  I wouldn't even care if they fit perfectly.  I can make them so they fit and look good.  I just need some decent fenders, any fenders to start with. 

My project is basically on hold until I see some second generation fenders.

Adam

[694spdRT]

I just had a flashback to all of the product licensing problems that were associated with Mopar products in past years. Is this still a big issue?  I know there is mention of this on the Charger Specialties website with their door pad emblems. I don't know the legalities of that situation and having the actual name "Charger" on the product might make it different. Regardless, if a manufacturer of reproduction parts has to spend tons of time and money upfront in red tape to legally sell a product in a "limited" market that will just compound the problem.

Maybe Chevy or Ford were not nearly as hard to get along with on licensing in the past and manufacturers are now way ahead on the parts curve for those cars. 

[694spdRT]

While looking around I found this interesting piece of info from Classic Industries.

http://www.classicindustries.com/newproduct/new-camaro.htm

The link shows a 1969 Camaro grill and it says manufactured from the original GM mold. If a lot of the original molds are still around for GM products that explains why many of the parts are more readily available.

[Troy]

While looking around I found this interesting piece of info from Classic Industries.

http://www.classicindustries.com/newproduct/new-camaro.htm

The link shows a 1969 Camaro grill and it says manufactured from the original GM mold. If a lot of the original molds are still around for GM products that explains why many of the parts are more readily available.

That's the big difference in Ford and Chevy parts compared to Mopar from everything I've read. Ford and Chevy still have all their molds and tooling (or at least a lot of it) so a company doesn't need to spend nearly as much to get a product released. Plus, the potential customer market is bigger because they made more cars. If what I read was correct, Chrysler sold off a lot or scrapped it during the 80s when they were in financial trouble so most repro parts now have to have tooling created from an NOS part or nice original.

Troy

[69 rt]

Baskal.

Would you be willing to part with that drivers side fender for the 69?
Thanks
69 rt

Email--- stentonm@earthlink.net

[edfury]

I've been looking for a pair of '68 charger fenders.  I have had very little luck and am concerned about the integrity of people these days.  I have a deal set up with a well known reputable mopar business back east who will sell me two fenders with minimal damage for $799.00 each, plus shipping for just under $200.00, and $100.00 to build a crate to ship them in.  It seems like yesterday when any used car fender could be found for around $50.00, oh well those days are gone.  After reading this series of comments on '69 charger fenders I'm convinced that I'm luckey to find any decent '68 fenders at all, and although the price is difficult to accept, it's only a little more than what all of you guys are saying is the going rate.  I might find cheaper fenders from a private party but if I cannot see the actual fenders in person how do I really know what I'm buying, and this is a lot of money to just send to a stranger.  Tomorrow I'm calling back and confirming that I do want to buy those two fenders which if you haven't done the math yet total $1900.00 and I'll bet there will be some reason why it will end up being over $2,000.00 

[Skyview69]

It basically costs a million dollars to create the tooling to stamp one major panel (like a front fender or a quarter panel skin).  That's a lot of repro panels to sell before they make their money back. 

The production numbers are another problem.  Hundreds of thousands of Mustangs & Camaros were made each year in those days.  On the other hand, the 1970-74 E-body Mopars only ever sold about 25,000 of each car per year. 

Fenders are also bolted on from the factory.  So it has traditionally been much easier to get used fenders than used rear quarter skins.  That's why you can buy quarter skins (crappy ones), but not fenders yet.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 1968-69 Chargers totalled about 170,000 cars.  That's decent.  We're probably gonna get reproductions of the fenders eventually but the prices of the used ones have to go up some more and the demand has to stay steady.

There's no excuse for why we can't buy reproductions of the 1969 plastic front grilles yet.  That particular part should have been repro'd many years ago. 

.

Figure if half of the 170,000 chargers made need new ones -that's 85,000.  If they sold them for $500 each they stand to make $42,500,000.00!!
That's if you buy one for your car.  DOuble that if you buy two!  I think that the $1million tooling cost is well worth it. Anyone want to invest in this??

[69charger2002]

well that figure looks great just on paper.. but are there really half the chargers left in existence?? umm. i doubt it.. also does every car that DOES exist need fenders? i'd say 1 out of every 3 chargers i own could stand to be REPLACED instead of fixed.. or are already in good shape.. a million bucks for tooling of a fender is a hell of a risky investment for a company.. much as i'd love to do it, i'd be scared of turning a profit doing it.. and let's face it. that's why 90% of companies reproduce parts. to make a buck. of course there are always a few guys that do it simply to help the hobby, and lots of times don't break even., but it's usually a smaller part in comparison
trav

[squeakfinder]

Has anybody here tried the fiberglass fenders available for 68 69 Chargers? What are they like?

[bsakal]

69rt,

I'm not ready to part with it right now. Sorry. I haven't evaluated the condition of my existing fenders yet. I haven't started my restoration yet. And sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Brian

[Mike DC]

       
It's the same old story.

The supply of fenders is drying up.  The sheetmetal is still out there to some extent, but supply & demand is working on them faster & faster now. 
We'll probably hear a lot of people saying "Help!  Nobody has any decent fenders!" in the next few years.  (Which usually really means: "Help, nobody will sell me any decent fenders for half their current value!")

Eventually Goodmark will release the repros.  The repros will fit okay, but they'll be made of weaker metal despite all the published claims to the contrary.  And then we'll make the unpleasant discovery that we'll be paying $1400-$1600 per set just for the repros, an amount which would have been enough to get some clean originals right now.

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I say pay whatever you have to pay, get some decent used fenders this year, get the car built, and get on with your life.