Canada is no longer a police state.

[404NOTFOUND]

It's hard to believe but, after decades of left wing stupidity the impossible has finally happened. All it took was a long overdue change in government to undo what we thought could not be undone. Have a look.

     http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120215/120215_Gun_Registry_Bill/20120215/?hub=CP24Home

[Ghoste]

It's about time!!!!

[AKcharger]

Hoorey for canada!

[Drache]

It's not over yet. It still has to go through the Senate first. Quebec is also threatening to take this bill to the courts which means they could tie it coming into effect for years.

[TheGhost]

I thought Quebec wanted to split from Canada?

[Brads70]

    WHAAA HOOOO! Its about time! It's been a long fight! 

[Ghoste]

The Liberals no longer have a majority in the senate so it will pass there.  Quebec doesn't want the law kept in effect, they want the existing records to remain on file.

[404NOTFOUND]

The Liberals no longer have a majority in the senate so it will pass there.  Quebec doesn't want the law kept in effect, they want the existing records to remain on file.

Yup, good luck to them with that. All the gun owners are online. I trade my Remington shotgun for your Remington shotgun. They can keep all the obsolete records they want LOL. No surprise there because the Quebec government are famous for being sore losers. No reflection of the fine people who live there.

[Ghoste]

I thought Quebec wanted to split from Canada?

For the most part, no.  The government there is much like a dog that has been taught there is food at the table and by growling and biting at your pant legs, it will be fed.  For the continual threat of separation they receive enormous tax incentives encouraging them to stay.  There are some who legitimately want to leave but the citizenry largely are like anywhere else, they just want to work and raise their families and enjoy life.  It is a beautiful province with a lot to offer and the French culture and heritage are all second to none in the world, but the separation thing needs to be put to rest.

[Drache]

The Liberals no longer have a majority in the senate so it will pass there.  Quebec doesn't want the law kept in effect, they want the existing records to remain on file.

Yup, good luck to them with that. All the gun owners are online. I trade my Remington shotgun for your Remington shotgun. They can keep all the obsolete records they want LOL. No surprise there because the Quebec government are famous for being sore losers. No reflection of the fine people who live there.

Quebec wants to create their own provincial registry.

[Ghoste]

Fine, but leave the taxation for that little program as a provincial thing then.

[bull]

Isn't it nice? Finally the bad guys will have to live under the threat of death by gun too. Congrats!

[Troy]

Ok, so I'm having some difficulty understanding the politics. The 2 "New Democrats" who broke ranks to vote for this were punished earlier for breaking ranks?

At that time, Turmel suspended their travel privileges and banned them from participating in question period, sitting on committees or making public statements.

Isn't that censorship? As well as interfering with their duties as government employees? Who decides how the whole party is supposed to vote? Doesn't that pretty much consolidate all the power into a very small number of hands? I'm assuming that isn't how the system was designed. Sadly, I believe we're on the same path - but we only (effectively) have 2 parties.

Also:

The association says police consult the registry, on average, more than 10,000 times a day, often to determine the possible presence of a shotgun or rifle in a home where they've received a domestic violence call.

So yeah, if the person has a registered shotgun the cops expect the worst I presume. Profiling? Discrimination? Hmmm. How prevalent is domestic violence any way? 10,000 times per day seems a little excessive.

Reminds me of some stuff I do at work. In the past, certain performance metrics were only calculated once per month (or year!) but I was able to make them available in real time. The managers became fixated on them and would spend all day refreshing the display (kinda like watching the stock ticker non-stop). The numbers are only a tool to help grasp the "big picture" and not a "magic bullet".

Troy

[Ghoste]

Canada is in many ways a socialist nation.  A lot of people wont say that out loud but it really is true.

[Drache]

Myths & Facts

Myth #1:
In 2009, it cost $4.1 million to operate the long-gun registry.

Fact #1
Many different numbers have been thrown around. When appearing before the Standing Committee on Public Safety the Canadian Taxpayers Federation gave a number of $106 million per year. (House of Commons Public Safety Committee, May 25, 2010)

Myth #2:
The Canadian Police Association says their membership is totally supportive of the long-gun registry.

Fact #2:
During Parliamentary hearings into the long-gun registry, the President of the Canadian Police Association, Charles Momy, admitted that less than 1 per cent of his association's membership responded to a survey on the long-gun registry. (House of Commons Public Safety Committee, May 13, 2010)

Myth #3
Virtually all police, including all Police Chiefs across Canada, support the long-gun registry.

Fact #3
Many police chiefs and front-line officers have spoken out against the long-gun registry. Rick Hanson, Calgary Police Chief, Evan Bray, Saskatchewan, Sgt/Det Murray Grismer Saskatoon, Sgt. Duane Rutledge – Active Police Officer, Dave Shipman, Mitch McCormick and Jack Tinsley – Winnipeg, retired, Bob Rich Chief of Police Abbotsford Police These are just witnesses, thousands more have supported with phone calls and emails. See Garry Breitkreuz' s website for what police have said: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2010/978.pdf

Myth #4
Police from across Canada access the long-gun registry over 11,000 times a day.

Fact#4
Computer activity does not denote usage. Of the 11,086 computer hits per day in 2009, 7,653 were for a name, 2,842 were for addresses, but a mere 19 were checking a registration certificate...of all types! The vast majority were due to hits automatically generated by a system designed to produce impressive statistics from irrelevant inquiries. (Source: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/archives/quick_facts/2010/mar-eng.htm)

[bull]

Also:

The association says police consult the registry, on average, more than 10,000 times a day, often to determine the possible presence of a shotgun or rifle in a home where they've received a domestic violence call.

So yeah, if the person has a registered shotgun the cops expect the worst I presume. Profiling? Discrimination? Hmmm. How prevalent is domestic violence any way? 10,000 times per day seems a little excessive.

Troy

It is excessive, which leads me to believe "often" is the operative word and that the gun weapons registration list is probably being used under any number of assumptions by law enforcement officials. IMO there's more to this registration list than just to alert cops to the presence of guns. So, will this list be eliminated now or will it continue to be referred to?

[Troy]

 

The vast majority were due to hits automatically generated by a system designed to produce impressive statistics from irrelevant inquiries.

This may sound completely ridiculous but, as a programmer, I've done this before...

Troy

[Budnicks]

  congrats guys I hope it goes thru for you... I know how much I love all my guns, rifles & hand guns alike & I don't ever want to give up any rights on owning any of them ever... I think it's a step in the correct direction at least... Gun ownership rights {The Right to Own & Bare Arms} & handgun registration is a big deal here in the U.S., I am a life long member of the N.R.A. {National Riffle Assn. helps to protect the laws & our constitutional rights concerning guns/ownership & stop the liberals from taking that right away from us} & I also am a certified Range Master/Fire Arms Instructor, do you guys have any organization like the N.R.A. in Canada    The best of luck to our friendly northern neighbors...  

[Brads70]

Canada is in many ways a socialist nation.  A lot of people wont say that out loud but it really is true.

Yep!! I've been saying that for years! Canadians typically are like sheep. The government tells them what to believe and most are stupid enough to believe it and not think for themselves. Common sense  seems to "take a back seat" too often!
This is just an example! It's been a long hard fight , hope it works out well. I just wonder what's next? Maybe what is coming next is worse?

[Chryco Psycho]

I made up my mind on socialism & left !! I am not a sheeple !!
A few years back Quebec had a vote to leave Canaduh , the vote was 48.6% in favor of leaving , I called my MP & asked why I was not allowed to vote , only residents of Que were allowed to vote , I would have voted to kick them out .

[TK73]

congrats guys I hope it goes thru for you... I know how much I love all my guns, rifles & hand guns alike & I don't ever want to give up any rights on owning any of them ever... I think it's a step in the correct direction at least... Gun ownership rights {The Right to Own & Bare Arms} & handgun registration is a big deal here in the U.S., I am a life long member of the N.R.A. {National Riffle Assn. helps to protect the laws & our constitutional rights concerning guns/ownership & stop the liberals from taking that right away from us} & I also am a certified Range Master/Fire Arms Instructor, do you guys have any organization like the N.R.A. in Canada    The best of luck to our friendly northern neighbors...  

Liberals aren't trying to take your guns.

- TK: well-armed Liberal

[Fred]

congrats 

[AKcharger]

Liberals aren't trying to take your guns.

- TK: well-armed Liberal

I'm glad to hear it TK, really!    but you must admit, free public ownership of firearms is not a typical liberal political stance. It's usually a plank for disenchanted people bitterly clinging to guns and religion who are opposed to people not like them...at least that's what I heard somewhere  

[charger_fan_4ever]

Canada is in many ways a socialist nation.  A lot of people wont say that out loud but it really is true.

Closer to communism actually

[71green go]

I wouldnt live in any other country in the world...and I have lived in quite a few, And I know guns are a touchy subject but not all of us North of the border are wanting to bare arms...just sayin

[charger_fan_4ever]

No freedom of choice is my main problem. Just get raped in taxes to support a sub par healthcare system. The amount we pay in income tax.sales tax is ridiculous. Here in quebec 15% federal income tax, over 39k 20% provincial income tax and last but not least 14.5% sales tax.

If we had a low tax rate like across the border we could afford to get a real health insurance policy and go to a private set up and get real care. Not go to an ER and wait for 4-10 hours to see someone.

I'd like to see less government intervention in our pockets and let us choose where we want to spend it. God knows they can't manage spending it correctly.

[71green go]

Careful what you ask for..yes we are taxed to death....Our economy is among the best in the world...60% of money collected south of the border goes to Military....or some high number like that, so cities crumble..be happy where you are....dont get me wrong I like my trips south of the border! 

[nh_mopar_fan]

Guess that *free* healthcare is kinda expensive, eh?

[Troy]

Careful what you ask for..yes we are taxed to death....Our economy is among the best in the world...60% of money collected south of the border goes to Military....or some high number like that, so cities crumble..be happy where you are....dont get me wrong I like my trips south of the border! 

Uh, that'd be 19.3% of the budget - almost the same as Social Security and only slightly more than Medicare/Medicaid.

Troy

[Ghoste]

And there is plenty of urban decay and joblessness in Canada too.  I wish the US had seen the Monroe Doctrine to completion a long time ago.

[TK73]

Total tax rate for Canada isn't much higher than the US. 28% for US and 33% for Canada...

Total Tax Revenue by country, as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product:
Country    Tax %
Austrailia    30.8
Austria    42.3
Canada    33.3
Finland    43.0
France    43.5
Germany    36.2
Italy            43.5
Japan    28.3
Korea    26.5
Netherlands 37.5
Norway    43.6
Sweden    48.3
Switzerland 28.9
United States    28.3
     

Source: OECD Tax Database    

[Ghoste]

That's income tax though, tack on another 13% for sales tax in Ontario (federal and provincial combined) and don't forget user fees for any number of government services and much higher energy costs etc, etc.

[TK73]

That's income tax though, tack on another 13% for sales tax in Ontario (federal and provincial combined).

Thought that was total tax, which includes income and sales taxes?

Any other info we can get? 

Interesting topic, i did some research on this for the Scandinavian countries...

[charger_fan_4ever]

Guess that *free* healthcare is kinda expensive, eh?

Exactly!!

[charger_fan_4ever]

Careful what you ask for..yes we are taxed to death....Our economy is among the best in the world...60% of money collected south of the border goes to Military....or some high number like that, so cities crumble..be happy where you are....dont get me wrong I like my trips south of the border!  

Been to montreal lately ? the whole overpass system is ready to crumble. They say a 5 on the scale earthquake would crumble the city and  I believe it. Most overpasses have huge nets to catch the falling concrete :S

Personal income tax in the US I don't see one state higher than 9%. I pay over 3 times that. I like to compare apples to apples. Ie what I take home every 2 weeks here vs if i lived int he U.S.

When figuring cost of living that is another crock as it does not take into consideration energy or food cost. I still fuel up every 2 weeks and the cost has gone up 35% in the past 2 years which comes direct from my pay yet they try to say cost of living only goes up 2-3% a year. Please give me a break.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf


I love our landscape and people, but the social system kills me.

[TK73]

WA has no State income tax, high sales taxes are the norm: 9-10%.  Unless you want alcohol or smokes: 35-40% "sin" tax.

Do you figure in our National tax rate compared to what you mentioned?  10-35% based on income level  (of course the higher tax brackets can take more advantage of legal deductions to bring their tax burden WAY down)

[71green go]

Careful what you ask for..yes we are taxed to death....Our economy is among the best in the world...60% of money collected south of the border goes to Military....or some high number like that, so cities crumble..be happy where you are....dont get me wrong I like my trips south of the border! 

Uh, that'd be 19.3% of the budget - almost the same as Social Security and only slightly more than Medicare/Medicaid.

Troy

Sensitive subject indeed......however what I have read and watched on TV says those numbers are greatly exaggerated......that many costs are hidden and not included in the real percentages...hey I hope I am wrong

[71green go]

Careful what you ask for..yes we are taxed to death....Our economy is among the best in the world...60% of money collected south of the border goes to Military....or some high number like that, so cities crumble..be happy where you are....dont get me wrong I like my trips south of the border!  

Been to montreal lately ? the whole overpass system is ready to crumble. They say a 5 on the scale earthquake would crumble the city and  I believe it. Most overpasses have huge nets to catch the falling concrete :S

Personal income tax in the US I don't see one state higher than 9%. I pay over 3 times that. I like to compare apples to apples. Ie what I take home every 2 weeks here vs if i lived int he U.S.

When figuring cost of living that is another crock as it does not take into consideration energy or food cost. I still fuel up every 2 weeks and the cost has gone up 35% in the past 2 years which comes direct from my pay yet they try to say cost of living only goes up 2-3% a year. Please give me a break.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf


I love our landscape and people, but the social system kills me.

Yep you are right and I didnt mean Canada does not have its issues we certainly do have many of the same issues.....but I lived 17 years south of the border and I simply Like Canada better...is it wrong to have pride in your country? everyone should....I wont speak about our politicians  ...but I do not hear much good of the current US government either...

[Troy]

Well, it takes some research to get anything you can actually compare. Most TV is worthless when it comes to "facts you can use". Once you figure out the agenda of the reporting agency it's easier to see what you need to cross check. I had a lot more written as far as comparisons but decided to keep it simple.

Oh, I research/analyze/crunch numbers/create reports for a living... yippee!

Troy

[Troy]

Total tax rate for Canada isn't much higher than the US. 28% for US and 33% for Canada...

Total Tax Revenue by country, as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product:
Country    Tax %
Austrailia    30.8
Austria    42.3
Canada    33.3
Finland    43.0
France    43.5
Germany    36.2
Italy            43.5
Japan    28.3
Korea    26.5
Netherlands 37.5
Norway    43.6
Sweden    48.3
Switzerland 28.9
United States    28.3
     

Source: OECD Tax Database    

It's 5% overall - comparatively that's almost 17.7% higher (difference between 28.3 and 33.3). Since that's *total tax* against GDP it's very washed down since it includes corporate taxes - which skews what an individual would pay. I couldn't find that specific list on the site but it sure seems like it's only Federal.

I guess we're veering pretty far off into politics now - although I suppose the subject of gun control laws kicked it off that way in the beginning.

Troy

[charger_fan_4ever]

Careful what you ask for..yes we are taxed to death....Our economy is among the best in the world...60% of money collected south of the border goes to Military....or some high number like that, so cities crumble..be happy where you are....dont get me wrong I like my trips south of the border!  

Been to montreal lately ? the whole overpass system is ready to crumble. They say a 5 on the scale earthquake would crumble the city and  I believe it. Most overpasses have huge nets to catch the falling concrete :S

Personal income tax in the US I don't see one state higher than 9%. I pay over 3 times that. I like to compare apples to apples. Ie what I take home every 2 weeks here vs if i lived int he U.S.

When figuring cost of living that is another crock as it does not take into consideration energy or food cost. I still fuel up every 2 weeks and the cost has gone up 35% in the past 2 years which comes direct from my pay yet they try to say cost of living only goes up 2-3% a year. Please give me a break.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf


I love our landscape and people, but the social system kills me.

Yep you are right and I didnt mean Canada does not have its issues we certainly do have many of the same issues.....but I lived 17 years south of the border and I simply Like Canada better...is it wrong to have pride in your country? everyone should....I wont speak about our politicians  ...but I do not hear much good of the current US government either...

I do love our country, just not the government set up. Nowhere is perfect i guess.