Productivity vs Quality

[Silver R/T]

At my place of work supervisor does annual 'review' of each employees performance. It always has been done by my lead (supervisor) and his supervisor. Each area has its own lead (supervisor) machine shop, weld shop, paint shop. And there's "manufacturing supervisor" who oversees all the operations and all leads are under him. This year he (supervisor) has decided that there was no need for my lead to be there and just did all the reviews himself.
He hasn't been there long as a supervisor as the old supervisor has retired and company has decided to keep old supervisors helper as a new supervisor. Now he's really trying to kiss some butt and as my lead says "rides everyone's a**"
He did my review and I got one 5 -my quality of work I do. However my Reliability and production are both at 3 (he basically lectured me how I don't do as much as I can do and he said he knows I can do more than what I do right now)
Anyone else see the picture here. Anytime your production rate goes up your quality starts to decline, am I right/wrong?
This guy has never really liked me and I try my hardest to avoid any conflict or arguing with him. This guy supposedly started out as a "yard boy" guy who moves stuff in yard with forklift and does dirty job, now he's all macho man.
What are your guy's suggestions/thoughts on this? I know I could talk to him but it probably won't end up being in my favor and I don't want to lose my temper and lose my job.

[tan top]

 
no point talking to him , he thinks i'm the man & wants to make a name for him self , how he increased production ,
seen it happen at a few places !! its only going to get worse ,  even if your the best painter , prepper etcetc & you know your doing every thing as fast as you can to achieve the required standard !!  , nothing worse than a jumped up no nothing , who thinks he knows !!  longer your there it will just wind you up ,  sorry your going to either ONE    take on board how HE thinks you  can do your job better ,  even though  this dude prolly dont even know a fluid tip from a airfed ! let alone how long it takes to paint some jobs ,  two tone base & clear for example   , finelining & masking some of these japanese  bumpers etc  
TWO hope he leaves
or THREE you leave !!   trust me , for your own mental sanity thats what i would do  ,  start looking round for another job  ,  but be as nice as you can while your waiting  do every thing by the book & try to get as much over time etcetc be his buddy  et cetc !!  , as if these type of people know your disgruntled about some thing they will pick pick wind you up till you do something silly , either walk out with out a job or  knock his teeth out !

 , i'm not talking from experience you under stand 
 . good luck Silver ! what ever you decide  
ok i'm done  
 

[bakerhillpins]

Anyone else see the picture here. Anytime your production rate goes up your quality starts to decline, am I right/wrong?

That's the way it works from my point of view.

• Correct
• Fast
• Cheap

Pick any 2.   

[kab69440]

I do the best I can with what is availed to me. Any time I hear the " We know you can do more/ better " "motivational" speech I just stare blankly until whomever decides to stop talking. I'm sick of hearing this crap from people who don't have the slightest clue what it takes to get any given job done. Honestly, I'm through with trying to make an impression. The only thing that hard work begets is more hard work. I suggest you start seeking a new employer. Managers of this clown's ilk are usually the first sign of a company going down the toilet.

[Silver R/T]

I do the best I can with what is availed to me. Any time I hear the " We know you can do more/ better " "motivational" speech I just stare blankly until whomever decides to stop talking. I'm sick of hearing this crap from people who don't have the slightest clue what it takes to get any given job done. Honestly, I'm through with trying to make an impression. The only thing that hard work begets is more hard work. I suggest you start seeking a new employer. Managers of this clown's ilk are usually the first sign of a company going down the toilet.

I'm not sure if it will go down toilet anytime soon as the company charges a LOT for their product (huge markups) and there's not whole lot of competition nationwide.
As far as another job-I've been at current job for over 6 years now and it's tough economy out there. I've been through many layoffs and they kept me. Many of my helpers just quit over the years I've been there. They lasted anywhere from 2 days to a week and current one is here over 1.5 years. He tried to communicate on how we could improve our quality of product to the "big guy" aka supervisor and he got on "list" cause supposedly he was trying to argue with supervisor. I don't want to be on same "list" lol
I do projects on side but that;s not enough to pay mortgage/bills or else I'd quit long time ago.

[Darkman]

I'm afraid to say, you will need to find a way to increase your production or find another job. I hate bosses like this, but unfortunately they exist. If you don't step up, he'll find someone else who will.

I would like to say something different. I'm guessing that he is not concerned about safety either? Safety far outways production and quality. I'm guessing you want to arrive home to your family every night in one piece!

[Charger-Bodie]

There is often a bid difference between fast and efficient. If your quality is good practice usually helps you achieve "efficiency" Alot of people are pushed to be fast and the quality suffers. If they are allowed a decent learning curve you should be able to give them both.

[stripedelete]

Maybe he's telling you it's time to take your game to the next level.  Why not forget the politics and accept the challange? 
Find out what you're made of.   

[Silver R/T]

Maybe he's telling you it's time to take your game to the next level.  Why not forget the politics and accept the challange? 
Find out what you're made of.   

I'm already best painter they have there. I've introduced many methods/products that they were not aware of and saved a lot of manufacturing time process. I'm only human, even engine has it's redline, some lines you're not supposed to cross.

[stripedelete]

Maybe he's telling you it's time to take your game to the next level.  Why not forget the politics and accept the challange? 
Find out what you're made of.   

I'm already best painter they have there. I've introduced many methods/products that they were not aware of and saved a lot of manufacturing time process. I'm only human, even engine has it's redline, some lines you're not supposed to cross.

Cross the line.  See what happens....

[Cooter]

Hate to tell you this Silver, but that "Lead" is trying to see if you will leave. Quality means sh*t to these types. All they care about is the final bottom line and don't care how it gets there. When there's a problem, they simply blame you, fire you, get rid of having to pay you what your worth and hire some poor, dumb, sh*t in your place, allow hi/her time to adjust and the cycle repeats.

Been there, tried like hell to "Step up", never works in your favor. He's got people on his ass to get more from less. "Motivate your employees" they call it. when all the time it should be called "Ride the guy that's been there the longest because he's making the most bucks, has the most senority, and usually kows how much he's worth, to quit"....

Good luck, but like mentioned, you are stuck either sh*ttin' out sh*t work, or walking away.

[tan top]

Hate to tell you this Silver, but that "Lead" is trying to see if you will leave. Quality means sh*t to these types. All they care about is the final bottom line and don't care how it gets there. When there's a problem, they simply blame you, fire you, get rid of having to pay you what your worth and hire some poor, dumb, sh*t in your place, allow hi/her time to adjust and the cycle repeats.

Been there, tried like hell to "Step up", never works in your favor. He's got people on his ass to get more from less. "Motivate your employees" they call it. when all the time it should be called "Ride the guy that's been there the longest because he's making the most bucks, has the most senority, and usually kows how much he's worth, to quit"....

Good luck, but like mentioned, you are stuck either sh*ttin' out sh*t work, or walking away.

yep

[bill440rt]

It would definitely be counter-productive if your supervisor ever saw this thread.

[ITSA426]

Lots of words here so it's difficult for an old mind like mine to keep up with.  It reminds me of an earlier time when I had to decide on staying with an employer. A friend of mine told me I could "live to work" or "work to live". 

My director told me that working for the airline should be my new religion.  I ended our productivity discussion be telling him "you can't make a baby in a month by getting nine women pregnant".   Shortly thereafter I moved on.  Best job I ever quit!  Health improved, attitude improved, and everything just got better.  Nice not to drag the workday home to family and friends.

[71green go]

I manage 60 guys at my place of employment.....Let me tell you its a challenge, so many different personality types its unreal...its a very large corporation world wide with high demands
Everyone has a burdoned rate attached to their head...meaning the Production guys have to produce enough to cover Everyone in the office, everyone in sales, the cost of the facility gas, hydro etc...Absolutely everything to run the place...this is the rate the sales guys have to make sure the customer is charged to cover cost..plus 20-40% margin
in some cases its 5 x what the actual production guy is making...the more guys in production the less the burdoned rate per head...

I am constantly challenged at motivating, and finding ways of cutting cost..whether it be by manufacturing assembly methods, new tooling to make things faster while maintaining quality etc....
And reducing hours ....to do that I have to challenge my guys... I can always bet there are some that think they are working at 100% while they are really at 75% of others....its perception...If I didn't ever challenge this soon the others would all be at 75% because he can

Some think its the big machine just wanting more and more from everyone...sometimes this is true
But to be competitive in the world we have to always be better and faster and cheaper then we were yesterday....no stock holder will be happy if profits and dividends never go up...they must everyear ...
so the guys at the bottom get burdoned with all of this...and I can bet you the leadhand/supervisor is under tremendous pressure to improve...I know I am every quarter
We also have a program here called a 360 review...it allows my staff to anonymously review me...actually all my reports and fellow supervisors can do so....then my manager discusses it with me ...its a great tool to tell how my staff looks at me from many different areas...luckily because I believe in being fair and consistant with all my staff I fair well in this..
maybe you could suggest this anonymously to your manager?...or who ever runs the place?
Steve

[Cooter]

I told one of my previous bosses this very thing and this was what he actually told me.

ME: "First off, i have a valid driver's license.
2. I have a valid state inspecter license
3. I show up EARLY everyday.
4. RARELY do I take off for frivilous things like being um, I don't know, sick...
5. I have worked days i didn't feel like living..(So sick)
6. I don't have fifteen girlfriends with even more kids that requires child support to be taken out.
7. I don't drink
8. I'm NOT a drug addict
9. I'm NOT a thief
10. Oh, and while I'm here, i can and usually do fix a couple things. What else do you want from me?"




Answer:......"Someone to do it cheaper"...

[Silver R/T]

I'm afraid to say, you will need to find a way to increase your production or find another job. I hate bosses like this, but unfortunately they exist. If you don't step up, he'll find someone else who will.

I would like to say something different. I'm guessing that he is not concerned about safety either? Safety far outways production and quality. I'm guessing you want to arrive home to your family every night in one piece!

Actually safety is #1 in our company, NOT cause they care about me or some other employee but cause they could get fined by L&I.
We have safety meetings every 2 weeks and then everyone signs that they were present, company does it to cover their butt.
I know that I do my job and I don't have to rework unlike other guys that CONSTANTLY have to repaint something cause they painted it wrong color or they just did real bad quality job to a point where it has to be sanded and repainted.
Supervisor does that he sees/understands all the issues but he doesn't. It;s like explaining what hunger is to a person who just ate.
Even if I did quit this job and went onto something else, who says that next job won't be as bad or even worse? I'm just stuck between hammer and anvil.

[Silver R/T]

I manage 60 guys at my place of employment.....Let me tell you its a challenge, so many different personality types its unreal...its a very large corporation world wide with high demands
Everyone has a burdoned rate attached to their head...meaning the Production guys have to produce enough to cover Everyone in the office, everyone in sales, the cost of the facility gas, hydro etc...Absolutely everything to run the place...this is the rate the sales guys have to make sure the customer is charged to cover cost..plus 20-40% margin
in some cases its 5 x what the actual production guy is making...the more guys in production the less the burdoned rate per head...

I am constantly challenged at motivating, and finding ways of cutting cost..whether it be by manufacturing assembly methods, new tooling to make things faster while maintaining quality etc....
And reducing hours ....to do that I have to challenge my guys... I can always bet there are some that think they are working at 100% while they are really at 75% of others....its perception...If I didn't ever challenge this soon the others would all be at 75% because he can

Some think its the big machine just wanting more and more from everyone...sometimes this is true
But to be competitive in the world we have to always be better and faster and cheaper then we were yesterday....no stock holder will be happy if profits and dividends never go up...they must everyear ...
so the guys at the bottom get burdoned with all of this...and I can bet you the leadhand/supervisor is under tremendous pressure to improve...I know I am every quarter
We also have a program here called a 360 review...it allows my staff to anonymously review me...actually all my reports and fellow supervisors can do so....then my manager discusses it with me ...its a great tool to tell how my staff looks at me from many different areas...luckily because I believe in being fair and consistant with all my staff I fair well in this..
maybe you could suggest this anonymously to your manager?...or who ever runs the place?
Steve

lol, our supervisor thinks he's greatest and everyone loves him, there's quite a bit of ignorance going on, I won't get into it deeper. They just want to get things done fast and make most profit margin. There is a LOT of overhead that blue collar employees have to support. I've been promised lead position whenever my lead retires (he's in his 60s) but I don't hold my breath for that as I don't trust people there, lots of lying going on.
Oh ya, since I'm undependable (I only got 3 on my dependability) I'm going to swings for a month so I can cover for a guy who's leaving to take care of his baby once it pops out. There's a lot of favors that I've done over years and calling me unreliable (he didn't actually say it, but 3 is not acceptable to me) was a bitch slap to the face. He actually asked me to work Friday but I decided I wasn't going to as I wouldn't get paid overtime (as I had appointment during the week) and I need to stand up to my score of 3

[kab69440]

And reducing hours ....to do that I have to challenge my guys... I can always bet there are some that think they are working at 100% while they are really at 75% of others....its perception...

No perception about it. I KNOW when I am at 100%.  In my current job(and a lot of my former jobs), production numbers are more based on dumb luck than skill or effort expended. The robotic machinery I am charged with operating right now was obsolete when I was in junior high. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will function as intended. Nothing will get fixed unless it absolutely will not start up. I am less an operator and more of an over-rider. The great thing about my job is that anything the machines refuse to do on any given day is another something I get to do by hand. I honestly believe the company could save money by not even firing the junk up. Everything has to be done manually anyway, might as well save the electricity.

[68blue]

Industrial painting is one of those jobs that strangly many people feel is unskilled. In over 30 years of paint manufacturing I've been in places all over the country and have been astounded at the shabby treatment applicators of a products final finish get. Some managers felt that you could train monkeys to paint so everybody in that job was looking for a way out and up creating a lot of turnover and retraining.

[Silver R/T]

Industrial painting is one of those jobs that strangly many people feel is unskilled. In over 30 years of paint manufacturing I've been in places all over the country and have been astounded at the shabby treatment applicators of a products final finish get. Some managers felt that you could train monkeys to paint so everybody in that job was looking for a way out and up creating a lot of turnover and retraining.

Yes, some feel that way. However I've went through autobody/paint college for 2 years and do quality work. There's a lot of people that think painting is easy and my lead has hired a lot of unskilled "painters" they're long gone now. On higher end machines we actually do bodywork, sand high build primer and treat it like a car finish for the most part. I've added a lot of paint processes that help us with quality, my boss didn't even know what "guide coat" was until I've shown him what it's all about.

[shorty442]

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. IMO no easy answer; damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Have to live with yourself while keeping many of life's priorities in sight.  I was always one to bust ass but also to speak my mind - whether asked for or not.  I got really tired of the "initiative of the day/month/year".  Upper management would pay millions to a consulting company to tell them how to be more efficient, productive, etc.  They would not however, ask any of us because we were just whiners, not team players, no credibility - although we worked through the problems time after time, knew the real systems to make things work better and the barricades that prevented the same, than any outside company.

Simply amazing we could be "selected" to be on a high visibility problem solving team to deal with a major product issue, supplier problem, potential recall item, etc but yet were not knowledgeable enough to help make things better.  About the time the same old crap came around for the 3rd time in a new wrapper, those of us who were the outspoken types would throw up our hands, moan & groan, and question how this would solve the systemic internal problems that never got addressed?

Lots of us always said - "boy, would I change things if I were the boss!"    So I finally became one and found a whole new set of barricades and how much easier it was to get on the black list from telling the truth to the hard questions.  Some days it just didn't pay to chew thru the restraints and try to make a difference.

I went thru those things as a salaried white collar type in an automotive engineering environment and can sympathize whole heartedly with all the prior comments.  If you stay you have to walk the fine line between keeping your job vs decking the a$$hole.  If you go elsewhere, your new boss may not be any better or move on and get replaced with an even worse individual.  Happened to me and seen it happen to others.

The only thing I can offer in a positive sense is to try to find ways to make the boss look good so he gets moved to a higher level of incompetency some where else.  Let him think it was his idea for the improvement.  Let him take credit for your suggestion.  A business cohort often said, "you don't have to kneel & grovel to the boss, but you do need to tip your hat upon occasion!"

Good luck with what ever path you take.

[dkn1997]

At my place of work supervisor does annual 'review' of each employees performance. It always has been done by my lead (supervisor) and his supervisor. Each area has its own lead (supervisor) machine shop, weld shop, paint shop. And there's "manufacturing supervisor" who oversees all the operations and all leads are under him. This year he (supervisor) has decided that there was no need for my lead to be there and just did all the reviews himself.
He hasn't been there long as a supervisor as the old supervisor has retired and company has decided to keep old supervisors helper as a new supervisor. Now he's really trying to kiss some butt and as my lead says "rides everyone's a**"
He did my review and I got one 5 -my quality of work I do. However my Reliability and production are both at 3 (he basically lectured me how I don't do as much as I can do and he said he knows I can do more than what I do right now)
Anyone else see the picture here. Anytime your production rate goes up your quality starts to decline, am I right/wrong?
This guy has never really liked me and I try my hardest to avoid any conflict or arguing with him. This guy supposedly started out as a "yard boy" guy who moves stuff in yard with forklift and does dirty job, now he's all macho man.
What are your guy's suggestions/thoughts on this? I know I could talk to him but it probably won't end up being in my favor and I don't want to lose my temper and lose my job.

I feel for you. You are in a tough spot.  I'm a boss now, but for 15 years, I did the exact job of the guys I supervise.  I have one guy who works for me who's work is beyond reproach...better than I  was when I did his job.  However, we literally don't make any money off his work.  if he was a little slower than the rest, I wouldn't care, but it literally takes him 2x-3x as long to do anything as it would take me or the other guys.  For jobs billed in the low range, say an hour or two of labor.. tripling your labor cost takes a huge bite out of it.


I'm lucky I guess.  My natural god given tendencies resulted in work that wasn't "perfect" when I did his job, but It was 90-95% perfect and my current boss tells me that my "margins" were always the best.  Once in long while, I would make a mistake requiring a return call, but it was rare, proving that you can have some happy medium of quality and speed. 

You sound like you may work slower but the work you put out is exceptional.  I'd say to consider that just because your old supervisor was ok with it and the new guy isnt....doesn't mean he's a butt kissing douche.  Maybe you could be a little faster and just as good.  Maybe he actually means it when he says he knows you are capable of doing it.  Part of existing and thriving in this world is willingness to adapt. It's been that way since the stone age.  We all would still be scurrying around a pit of pond scum if we didn't adapt as a species.  So you have a choice here:  Adapt and succeed, or be the malcontent who sticks his head up his ass and says "I'm not changing for anyone"    Try it his way for a few months, after you document the discussion where he told you to speed it up... and if your quality suffers, maybe you will show him and the other bosses that you weren't being slow just because...

[dkn1997]

almost forgot...You can explain to your boss about how you work and not get on the list.  It's all in the delivery.  focus on the positives of your good work, don't even think about comparing it to what the other guys do, that's what 5 year olds do (that's not fair bla bla bla) say "of course I want to be as profitable as I can be for the company because in the big picture, what's good for the company will be good for me"  have an "I'm working for you and I'll do this job any way you want me to do it" attitude.  Bosses love that.  trust me.  you may see it as selling it out, but a boss will see it as one less pain in the ass employee he has to babysit and lecture every day.

If you can't do any of this, then you are truly inflexible and should either retire or start your own company.  I'm not being a smart ass, but at the end of the day, Even Derek Jeter has to conduct himself the "NY Yankees" way. 

[Silver R/T]

At my place of work supervisor does annual 'review' of each employees performance. It always has been done by my lead (supervisor) and his supervisor. Each area has its own lead (supervisor) machine shop, weld shop, paint shop. And there's "manufacturing supervisor" who oversees all the operations and all leads are under him. This year he (supervisor) has decided that there was no need for my lead to be there and just did all the reviews himself.
He hasn't been there long as a supervisor as the old supervisor has retired and company has decided to keep old supervisors helper as a new supervisor. Now he's really trying to kiss some butt and as my lead says "rides everyone's a**"
He did my review and I got one 5 -my quality of work I do. However my Reliability and production are both at 3 (he basically lectured me how I don't do as much as I can do and he said he knows I can do more than what I do right now)
Anyone else see the picture here. Anytime your production rate goes up your quality starts to decline, am I right/wrong?
This guy has never really liked me and I try my hardest to avoid any conflict or arguing with him. This guy supposedly started out as a "yard boy" guy who moves stuff in yard with forklift and does dirty job, now he's all macho man.
What are your guy's suggestions/thoughts on this? I know I could talk to him but it probably won't end up being in my favor and I don't want to lose my temper and lose my job.

You sound like you may work slower but the work you put out is exceptional.  I'd say to consider that just because your old supervisor was ok with it and the new guy isnt....doesn't mean he's a butt kissing douche.  Maybe you could be a little faster and just as good.  Maybe he actually means it when he says he knows you are capable of doing it.  Part of existing and thriving in this world is willingness to adapt. It's been that way since the stone age.  We all would still be scurrying around a pit of pond scum if we didn't adapt as a species.  So you have a choice here:  Adapt and succeed, or be the malcontent who sticks his head up his ass and says "I'm not changing for anyone"    Try it his way for a few months, after you document the discussion where he told you to speed it up... and if your quality suffers, maybe you will show him and the other bosses that you weren't being slow just because...

Actually all work that I put out is done pretty fast. Reason my supervisor thinks my productivity is slow is cause I get work done and then come out of spray booth to check on my helper and what do you know-here comes by supervisor eyeballing me (and of course he gets idea in his stupid head that I don't work and being lazy) while I just came out of spray booth a minute or two ago just to catch my breath. I only have one prepper and he can't keep up with me. I don't want to say that to supervisor cause prepper is a good kid and I don't want to get him in trouble. I get along with everyone very well and want to keep it that way, don't want to snitch anyone off to make myself look better.
Guy who previously worked in this booth had 2 helpers (one of them was me) and three of us were on swing shift (years ago) once he quit I was put into spray booth and had quite a few helpers come through there, most of them lazy bastards who didn't want to climb ladders, take out trash, etc. However helper that I have now is pretty good about his job, takes extra time to do good prep job so our productivity is not as fast if 3 people were there. Of course company is trying to save money and won't hire another helper.
I guess I'll just have to hide in booth and pretend that Im doing something in between the jobs. I'm not good at pretending though...
This company is turning into giant sweat shop.

[Kern Dog]

[quote

That's the way it works from my point of view.

• Correct
• Fast
• Cheap

Pick any 2.   
[/quote]


Thats great. Permission to use it around MY pals at work?

[dkn1997]

......I guess I'll just have to hide in booth and pretend that Im doing something in between the jobs. I'm not good at pretending though...
This company is turning into giant sweat shop.

Install a toilet, fridge, and plenty of porn in your booth so you get to look busy and get busy at the same time: problem solved

[Silver R/T]

I'm going to swing shift for a month. Painter on swing is having a baby and wants to spend some time with family. I hate swings, been there done that. One positive thing is that there's no bosses on swings.

[Silver R/T]

I asked for a day off at the end of the month and supervisor had to think about it for a while. Then he asked me if I would come in all the previous Fridays to do overtime. If I'm not dependable why is he asking me to do overtime? Does this make sense to anyone?
Also I've been never laid off since I've been working there 6+ years, while many other guys have been laid off multiple times and some of them they never called back either.