Counterfeit Moog, or other crap in a Moog box

[375instroke]

I've been reading about non Moog parts being sold in Moog boxes.  I just got parts from RockAuto.com, and all the Moog boxes have parts with gold colored ends that say Moog Problem Solver on them, and the boots say Moog, except one tie rod end.  It has a plain end, with a boot in a bag.  Rock Auto is not very helpful on the first call.  I'll call back and see what happens.

[Indygenerallee]

Moog parts are not the same Moog you would have bought 5 years ago, I own a Auto repair shop and I can attest the quality has went into the shitter.

[cdr]

Moog parts are not the same Moog you would have bought 5 years ago, I own a Auto repair shop and I can attest the quality has went into the shitter.

almost every part these days are just CRAP,GOTTA replace bad new parts way more than we use to

[375instroke]

I was going to get Raybestos Professional Grade, but they're all unavailable right now, so I went with Moog.  Now, I can't even get that.

[Cooter]

MOOG stays MOOG, Quality stays up, Parts houses sell one per year because of the higher price of being manufactured in the good ole USA, part quality goes overseas, quality goes in the sh*tter..

[cavemanno1]

I had a item from rockauto that says Moog on the box but when you open the box there is a sticker that says it's not a Moog parts

[resq302]

Sounds typical anymore with all of the bigger companies.  Selling out to make a cheaper product to get more profit for themselves while we are left holding the bag.  Very few people anymore make a good quality product that is meant to last.      A couple years ago, you could have gotten a really good brand name rotor that was nice and thick and could withstand a couple machinings.  Now they are all made to throw away and replace when you do a brake pad change.  Same goes for todays cars...... they aren't built to last like our antiques were.  Of course, even back then they didn't expect our cars to last this long but still, look at how well they preserved themselves vs. how todays cars would be if say they lasted 20 years?

[Cooter]

they aren't built to last like our antiques were.  Of course, even back then they didn't expect our cars to last this long but still, look at how well they preserved themselves vs. how todays cars would be if say they lasted 20 years?

Everybody says this, but let's look at the facts. Not defending today's rice rockets by no means, but if you actually think about what you said here, today's cars would be around after sitting in an open field LONG AFTER a 1969 Charger would be rusted to the ground. Today's car I see are 25 years olds and still don't leak water. These fu*kin' things leaked right out of the factory. I mean, WTF designed that front windshield sealing area on a 2nd Gen. B-Body anyway? Ray Charles?

Today's car last ALOT longer due to rust froofing extensively. Paints were GONE and surface rust was forming in about 15 years with a 1969 Charger. How many newer cars have you seen with 25 year old paint jobs that have NEVER been waxed, and still shine like new money? I can think of about 5 right off.

No, today's car are LEAP years ahead of the 1969 Charger in most things except style...

[resq302]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  My mother in laws car for one thing (Toyota Corolla) is rotting away to hell and she never washes it.  The paint is flaking off and such like that.  My 97 Ram that I had had to have the doors replaced due to rust forming at the bottom part of the doors when the thing was 3 yrs old.  At 6 yrs old, the truck developed rust bubbling around the rear wheel well lip about 12 oclock position.  That truck was washed, waxed, babied, and everything even down to cleaning up the undercarriage every year from rust and damage the NJ salts had done.  hell, even my 2007 F150 is starting to rust in the body as well as my wifes 05 Explorer that we got rid of.  Todays cars might rot through (holes) faster than the older metal due to the make up of the metal or possibly even the thickness of the metal.  All I know is that the metal on my charger is a lot stiffer than the metal that was on my 05 Ram 1500 since I ended up creasing the fender because I leaned on it with my hand to reach the center part of the hood when I was washing it.  Mind you I only weigh 180-190 lbs and I was standing on the ground.

I can also remember a point where Dodge had an issue with the silver, gray, and blue paints peeling off of the primer so I wouldn't necessarily say that todays paint are all that much better.  Maybe it was something due to the make up or a bad lot of paint or something but I know a lot of vehicles that had bare sections of skin showing after the paint disappeared after a washing or flaking off.

As for leaking water around the windshield, yes it seems that was a common problem possibly due to design although, I just replaced my windshield two years ago and prior to replacing it, it used to leak big time.  Now that I installed it the right way (according to the FSM) I have had no leaks (knock on wood).

[Indygenerallee]

Cooter, These newer cars don't sit around "25 years" and are still in fantastic shape! sheetmetal is even thinner than that of a classic 60's Mopar (and that was thin compared to 1940's-1950's cars!! I had a Plymouth coupe and that was REAL steel!!) those PT crappers I saw several that were only 2 years old at the time (2008 model!)and the owners all had to take them back to the dealership and have new quarter panels put on due to rust through! Granted paint systems have came a long way since 1969 and yeah they had their faults as well but these newer cars have just as many problems as the old ones!!

[chargerboy69]

they aren't built to last like our antiques were.  Of course, even back then they didn't expect our cars to last this long but still, look at how well they preserved themselves vs. how todays cars would be if say they lasted 20 years?

Everybody says this, but let's look at the facts. Not defending today's rice rockets by no means, but if you actually think about what you said here, today's cars would be around after sitting in an open field LONG AFTER a 1969 Charger would be rusted to the ground. Today's car I see are 25 years olds and still don't leak water. These fu*kin' things leaked right out of the factory. I mean, WTF designed that front windshield sealing area on a 2nd Gen. B-Body anyway? Ray Charles?

Today's car last ALOT longer due to rust froofing extensively. Paints were GONE and surface rust was forming in about 15 years with a 1969 Charger. How many newer cars have you seen with 25 year old paint jobs that have NEVER been waxed, and still shine like new money? I can think of about 5 right off.

I agree.  I have a all original 1992 2dr. Yukon with nearly 300,000 miles and the truck looks 2 years old.

I see cars daily which are 20 years old and still look fairly good. I remember when I first got my drivers license back in 1990 and set out to find a Charger. When these cars were 21 years old all I found were rusted through floors, frames, quarters, nearly all I ran across were scrap. . .  at 21 years old. And I do not remember any with a original engine.

[Chatt69chgr]

Since Moog has apparently moved to the dark side can anyone recommend a good line of suspension parts?

[resq302]

TRW or Raybestos supposedly makes a good Professional Grade replacment part

[BananaDan]

Brian, I think I see your problem.  I read your post and saw Ford, Ford, Ford, rust, rust, rust.   

My '05 Jeep Liberty has 150K miles on it and not a spot of rust.  It drives every day all year 'round and is not garaged.  I honestly don't wash it as often as I should either.  I will say one thing about modern cars, they have 10x more plastic on them than older cars and that isn't going to rust and disintegrate into a field.

[BananaDan]

Seriously though, is MOOG really in the shitter?  I am having my front end rebuild next week and my shop talked me out of the poly-graphite P-S-T kit and into sticking with a quality rubber OEM-type setup.  If MOOG is not garbage, let me know so we don't use it.   

[69rtse4spd]

Getting the center drag link replaced on my 88 d-350 one ton. Had a choice between MOOG at 144.00 or some crape knock off for 45.00, went with the MOOG, when it comes to front end parts will no go cheap. The guy at ORileys tries to get his upper management to keep carring the better made stuff when possible. But anymore now it is a crap shoot, & when I do find a place that still can get the good stuff I try to do my business with them.  .

[resq302]

Brian, I think I see your problem.  I read your post and saw Ford, Ford, Ford, rust, rust, rust.   

My '05 Jeep Liberty has 150K miles on it and not a spot of rust.  It drives every day all year 'round and is not garaged.  I honestly don't wash it as often as I should either.  I will say one thing about modern cars, they have 10x more plastic on them than older cars and that isn't going to rust and disintegrate into a field.

Dan,

The Fords are not rusting through like my 97 Ram did but I also address any rust issues when I see it and not let it get that bad.  However, with my 97 ram, the rust was behind places that I could not visually see until they bubbled up and came through from the inside out.

You are right about them being more plastic than anything now, however, with plastic comes the parts drying out, cracking, breaking and such.  They don't make parts as long as they used to either anymore.  Lets face it, todays society is a throw away society.  When you are done with a certain item, you just simply toss it into the garbage and buy a new one.  Gone are the days of maintaining and repairing items and making them last.  I now own my grandfathers old wheel barrow and that is so much more substantial than the stuff that you can get at Lowes or Home Depot today.  The stuff that is made today is cheap and flimsy where the one I have that was my grandfathers is solid and you can drop rocks into it without hearing that steel drum sound.  Back then they even thought ahead and included a grease fitting on the wheel for keeping the axle lubricated.  I have yet to see anything like that on stuff manufactured today.  Same goes for the grease fittings in cars today.

[resq302]

Seriously though, is MOOG really in the shitter?  I am having my front end rebuild next week and my shop talked me out of the poly-graphite P-S-T kit and into sticking with a quality rubber OEM-type setup.  If MOOG is not garbage, let me know so we don't use it.   

Dan,

when I redid my front suspension, I replaced it all with the original rubber type parts instead of the poly items.  There is a huge difference in comfort of the ride with using the original rubber Ive found.  The poly stuff is great for handling but doesn't really absorb any vibration, road surface variances, etc.  I have also heard that the poly bushings on the lower control arms can end up leading to cracking the K frame where the pivot goes through.

[BananaDan]

I know, I'm just razzin' ya about the Ferd stuff.   

Seriously though, I just want to get some more opinions since I'm getting my front rebuilt in the next week or two.  Is MOOG still a good quality product, or have they gone down the tubes?

[hemihead nc]

...Moog and TRW are BOTH owned by Federal-Mogul. Some of the accessory parts packs inside are maybe lessor quality( grease zerks, cotter keys, castle nuts ). Moog Problem Solver parts are superior design to the OE parts and are re designed to do a better job of the OE. Both TRW and Moog are limited lifetime warranty parts. I have not noticed any reduction of quality on the Moog parts. The Ram track bar is a poor design to begin with....A replacement end from Luke"s Link will fix your problems...

[Cooter]

Of course, all this "New cars are better" sh*t goes out the window if you live in one of those "Snows 75% of the year, can't even see out your front door for the 80 Ft. snow drift" states. New England states this does NOT apply..Every freaking thing looks like it's 50 years old up there in 5 short years.

[bullit68]

it has been my experience that the moog parts sold now are absolute crap.sure they give you a lifetime warranty,but thats of little consolation when you have to tear your front end apart to replace that lower balljoint yet again.my commercial delivery truck that i bought new and maintained myself had the original front end (upper and lower balljoints,tie rod ends,centerlink,idler arm etc)replaced(by me)at 360k kilometers.the front end was still in decent shape but i had to replace a front coil spring that was broken so i decide to replace it all with quality moog parts while i had it all apart.one year later i went to get an annual safety inspection and was told the lower balljoints were gone.that was in less than 20k.i pulled them out,got the new "warranty"set and put them in.one more year later,guess what?gone again.this front end was greased every 5k(kilometers)with the oil change like i had done since the truck was new.the factory parts lasted 360k(and were still good)and i cant seem to get one year(20k)out of the quality moog parts.pure crap.this was a year ago.my brother has a 03 dodge 3500 diesel 4x4.he had his frontend rebuilt a year ago and now his lower balljoints are gone.thats in about 15k.yes,more moog parts.i have been told by several repair shops in the area that the moog parts aren't what they used to be and they are not using them anymore.they told me to use "spicer"parts.use this info/advise as you wish.this is just my honest experience with this product.

[resq302]

come to think about it, I replaced my wifes upper ball joint on her 05 Explorer last summer and within two months, it was squeaking like it had no grease.  Of course all the new crap doesn't have any provisions for grease fittings so I had to pull the rubber boot out a little and get some grease in there.  Even then, we would still get the occasional squeak.     However, we no longer have to worry about that issue since we traded that car in for an 08 Eddie Bauer model that only has 18,000 miles on it.

[Mike DC]

 

You can't get decent stuff these days for anything that isn't a specialized usage like a race car.  Doesn't matter how much you wanna spend, good stuff just doesn't exist.