Painters please help! It's home and painted!

[b5blue]

  OK...you have "Acrylic's" in Enamel, Urethane and Lacquer. What I've decided to do is get my car back to B-5 Blue or close (Bright Blue Poly.) as reasonable as I can for now. I'm looking for nothing fancy and much later will be doing rear 1/4's, trunk gutters and so on. I'll be removing the blue paint on there now (It's coming off with a scraper.) and sanding down the primer underneath. The roof and trunk will be down to steel as they were the worst. I'm mostly wanting to shoot a topcoat for UV protection and figuring this paint job as "sacrificial". I've found acrylic enamel and urethane online for anywhere from 45.00 to 175.00 per GL. depending on mix. (The higher was for true B-5 mix.)
 What would anyone recommend for "a low $$ kinda do for now so I can get to some other things" approach? (Most of my budget for paint just got pumped up to Gainsville keeping my son in collage and I have another starting hopefully this year, OL' Blue has to wait for the good stuff!)    
  Any opinions/advise are welcome! (I'm lost and clueless!    )

[Patronus]

Do it right, and do it once. 

[Silver R/T]

I would put it in epoxy primer until you are ready for a decent paint job

[jaak]

Whether using acrylic enamel or urethane (both single stages), it is easy to 'tiger stripe' the metallic if you are not careful, I know this sounds crazy, but on the final coat, you got to 'fog' the paint on the even out the metallics. Out of those two choices, urethane will be a lot more durable, but will be more expensive. I like to use single stage urethane for solid colors, and BC/CC (BC/CC is urethane too) for metallic colors. If you are dead set on doing a cheap paint job just to get by, I would recommend using Kirker paint (that is what Summit and Eastwood sell, they just change the labels), for a cheap paint it is decent, its available in Acrylic enamel, urethane and BC/CC. The only draw back is they do not mix, they are all 'pre-packaged' colors, but they have several blues to choose from. http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/colorchart.html (single stage urethane color chart).

But as others have said, if you just want to drive/enjoy the car, I personally would just put a good epoxy primer on it.

Here is a great site to learn things pertaining to body/paint and all the supplies... http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php



Just some facts to think on,
Jason

[b5blue]

Thanks guys! Jaak will epoxy primer stick well to other primers? Kirker has a bright blue met. that is close to B-5 and acceptable. (Thanks for the link.)

[Domino]

Thanks guys! Jaak will epoxy primer stick well to other primers? Kirker has a bright blue met. that is close to B-5 and acceptable. (Thanks for the link.)

Epoxy primer is used to seal polyester primer/filler repairs prior to paint, so yes.

[Cooter]

Primer IS NOT Paint and contrary to popular belief, it will NOT protect your ride unless you are spraying it for the "look" of having had bodywork done...Primer breathes. Therefore, the metal will rust through if driven in the weather.

[superbirdtom]

I have used every paint under the sun. started paintingin 1973.  My choice for single stage metallic. is Concept by ppg.    Now  since you are going with a METALLIC single stage . when painting just get the paint on don't worry about tiger stripes on your first three coats. just get good coverage.  then on your fourth coat get it even  without tiger stripes, and continue just walking around the car fogging make full side passes ,do not panel paint you want to get the biggest fan and use slow reducer.   

                             Now heres another thing to do if u want the best single stage metallic paint job ever . is to paint the car with three coats, then let it harden for a week and gas off set up.  then block out the car with 3m 1000 grit wet paper. use a 8 inch block and get a ABSORBER BRAND shammy to use in wet sanding process . all other shammys suck!.   after you wet sand block the entire car.with 1000.    remask and repaint right after you are done with the remask.        now  you are spraying onto a hard shell. you won't believe the difference. it will shine like a fully polished car.    Thing is you can't block and buff out mettalic single stages.     yeah its a lot of work  but the results are worth it. plus the first paint job gives you experience.   Good luck

[Silver R/T]

Primer IS NOT Paint and contrary to popular belief, it will NOT protect your ride unless you are spraying it for the "look" of having had bodywork done...Primer breathes. Therefore, the metal will rust through if driven in the weather.

Epoxy primer stands up to elements very well. Personally I would recommend SPI epoxy http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

[b5blue]

Again thank you guys. I did realize the normal factors that would apply to a shop don't apply to me. Slow cure times and re-shoots for me are an advantage. I checked and Kirker has been manufacturing paints for 100 years right here in the U.S. so that can't be bad.  Superbirdtom's advise sounds good, I hate patching instead of replacing but that's just out of reach for now. I'll be checking into SPI also, thanks for the link Silver RT! Cooter you get my situation, the sun and wetness of Florida is relentless and brutal. I may try white while learning to shoot then overcoat to blue? 

[bill440rt]

Hey, Neal. 
Like it was mentioned, your BEST bet is to wait to do it right. However...
If you have your heart set on getting your car painted sooner than later, given the climate in which you live I would go with a urethane based single stage over an acrylic enamel based single stage any day of the week. It is a more durable paint. If your prep work holds up, you could always wet sand the snot out of it down the road in prep for a base/clear job to be put over it. A regular acrylic enamel job will not hold up as good to the elements. The PPG Concept line is a very good single stage. Expensive yes, but with paint you get what you pay for. I also like DuPont's ChromaOne. I've never used Kirker products, so I can't comment on those.

You will not be able to fully sand or buff a single stage metallic, or else you will either get tiger stripes or blotchiness in the metallic. You could probably get away taking care of a few dirt nibs here or there, but not fully wet sanding or buffing.

An epoxy primer will hold up much better than non-epoxy, it is also less porous. However, it will not hold up to UV over time & will turn chalky. It needs to be topcoated.

I would strip the car down to metal (preferably blast, DA sander, or chemical, in that order of preference), then apply a GOOD epoxy primer. You can do your bodywork from there, then apply a GOOD filler or hi-build primer. Block, apply a sealer (PPG has a sealer mix for use with their DP epoxy line), then paint.

Remember, your paint job is only as good as your prep work underneath. 

[68 Bullitt Charger]

As some of the guys mentioned, best thing is to wait, save up and do it the 100% correct way. Personally its the only way IMO. It will re-rust twice as fast not using the proper materials and labor. Good luck......

[b5blue]

 How about "Body in white" then, you've steered me to that! (Thanks!) B5blue's white Charger....I hate it....but it's best for now....boring old, plain, white. 
  White it is....(WAAAHHHH!) that removes many problems for now. I was considering satin black but just from feeling the sun's heat of the roof in black Rust Encapsulator holy cow I burned my hand!!!
   Don't get me wrong, white is nice and looks great on a white Charger but the first time I saw my car (Before it was mine.) I was Gob-struck  with B5blue on B5blue 2nd gen Charger. It had me soooo bad I made a deal with the devil's ex-wife, (My ex-mother in law.) to buy and then keep it. (The many door dings along the sides are a dear reminder of her smashing her car's door into it every chance she could.) 
   Key components like the hood, roof and trunk will be stripped to steel on the exterior and done as recommended. Fenders and doors not so much as they will be removed later to do inside and out. I'll run cost projections that way for now and see.
  I'm glad you guys are giving input THANKS!! b5white...
   
 

[hemi-hampton]

Could always go to MAACO.  I prefer Dupont Centari single stage. Do they still make that? LEON.

[bill440rt]

Could always go to MAACO.  I prefer Dupont Centari single stage. Do they still make that? LEON.

Yep. Last I checked, they still do Leon. 
However, given the heat & humidity where Neal is from is why I suggested a urethane such as ChromaOne. Centari is good as far as acrylic enamel goes, but a urethane based paint is better.

[b5blue]

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....

[Highbanked Hauler]

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....

   That would do it for sure. You would have to read the tech. sheet on epoxy primer  but I think with 2 coats you would be weather proof. Years ago PPG used to have a white epoxy primer when we were first dealing with pearls but definitely read the tech or product sheet on what ever you are going to use.

[superbirdtom]

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....

                                 i JUST USED UPOL HIGH BUILD PRIMER OVER SOME EPOXY . PPG DP-50 GREY EPOXY AND GREY UPOL .HE UPOL FILLS TWICE AS GOOD AS THE K-36 FROM PPG AND IS HALF THE COST.  ITS SO DENSE AND THICK YOU HAVE TO REDUCE IT OUT TO GET IT TO EVEN GET IT OUT OF THE GUN.

                         lIKE OTHERS HAV SAID  BARE METAL. FINISHED WITH 150 GRIT DA. THEN WIPE IT ALL DOWN WITH SOME GOOD WAX AND GREASE SOLVENT, A GOOD ONE THAT IS A CLEAN SOLVENT IS NAPAS   KLEANZ EZ     .  THEN USE PPG GREY EPOXY SEALER. A GOOD COUPLE COATS  THEN DO ALL YOUR BONDO WORK OVER THAT, HEN  HIT ALL THE BARE METAL THAT COMES THROUGH AFTER YOUR BONDO WORK.  THEN HIT ALL BARE METAL SPOTS AGIN WITH THE EPOXY.    HEN SCUFF THE WHOLE THING WITH A RED SCOTHBRITE PAD.  THEN UPOL THE HELL OUTTA IT.  yOU CAN MIX IT AND SHOOT IT WITHOUT WAITING BETWEN COATS AS IT DRIES VERY FAST .  USE SOME GOOD REDUCER TO THIN IT OUT JUST ENOUGH TO GET IT OUT OF THE GUN.  iD SUGGEST A 6.0 OR 8.0 TIP O HE GUN.   IT IS VERY HAD TO GET IT TO RUN. IT IS A 4-TO 1 MIX .  tAKE THE CAN DOWN TO LOCAL HARDWARE STORE AND HAVE THEM SHAKE I FOR 15 MIUTES.


i ACTUALLY PUT REDUCER IN IT BEFORE I PUT IT ON MY SHAKER. 10%.   IT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN SO PLEASE DON;T BREATH THE VAPORS LET ALONE OVERSPRAY.  1 GALLON SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO DO THE ENTIRE CAR.   i COULD GO ONAND ON.  LAST MOST IMPORTANT THING WITH UPOL PRIMER IN THE ORANGE CAN IS THAT AFTER CURING FOR A COUPLE DAYS .  FINISH IT WITH FINAL SANDPAPER OF 600 GRIT AND EPOXY THE WHOLE CAR BEFORE PAINTING OR THE PAINT WILL NOT STICK TO IT.    i JUST DID A COMPLETE AND WENT FROM 150- 240 TO 320 -400 TO 600.   THAT WAS ON MY HUTCHINS MODEL 800 ORBITAL LONG BOARD.  PLUS OTHER VARIOUS SNDING FLEXIBLE AND NON FLEXIBLE BLOCKS

WE GET 180 INCHES OF RAIN HERE ANDi HAVE TO DO JOBS  THAT WON'T COME BACK SO i KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AS A COMEBACK MEANS i HAVE TO REDO IT ON MY OWN TIME.. iVE LEARNED IT DON'T PAY TO GO TO CHEAP ON MATERIALS.   AND THE UPOL SANDS WAAAY BETTER THAN PPG K-36.  i PAINTED A DEHAVILLAND BEAVER WITH PPG CONCEPT ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO AND IT STILL LOOKS GOOD.  ID BETTER SHUT UP.   ANY PAINTING ADVISE  JUST LET ME KNOW.

[superbirdtom]

So a white urethane over epoxy primer....

   That would do it for sure. You would have to read the tech. sheet on epoxy primer  but I think with 2 coats you would be weather proof. Years ago PPG used to have a white epoxy primer when we were first dealing with pearls but definitely read the tech or product sheet on what ever you are going to use.

ppg EPOXY WILL NOT LAST OUT IN THE ELEMENTS.  i KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE.  IT WOULD PROBABLY BE OK TO MIX SOME PPG DP-50 GREY EPOXY WITH THE DP-48 WHITE EPOXY TO TO GET AN OFF WHITE AND A BASE THAT WILL COVER . WHITE DP-48 IS THE POOREST HIDING AND LESS PIGMENT THAN ALL THEIR EPOXY LINE.   iF  YOU KEEP IT OUT OF THE RAIN. AND PUT A GOOD 6 COATS ON IT.   YOULL BE OK FOR A WHILE.  RAIN IS ITS ENEMY.  THANX  TOM

[Silver R/T]

Try SPI epoxy, you won't regret it. It's BETTER than PPG DPLF epoxy. PPG does have good base (deltron) and their clears are not bad but they're way too overpriced. You can get better product for less money imo.
I use Finish 1 FP410 2K HS Urethane Primer vs PPG K36(another overpriced product) I get it at very good price and it build excellent.

[superbirdtom]

Try SPI epoxy, you won't regret it. It's BETTER than PPG DPLF epoxy. PPG does have good base (deltron) and their clears are not bad but they're way too overpriced. You can get better product for less money imo.
I use Finish 1 FP410 2K HS Urethane Primer vs PPG K36(another overpriced product) I get it at very good price and it build excellent.

hEY i AGREE THEIRS LESS EXPENSIVE PAINTS AND SUCH THAT ARE BETTER OR AS GOOD AS THE BIG NAME BRANDS.  jUST ORDERED SOME MIPA PRIMER WILL BE HERE NEXT WEEK. SINCE I PAINT 7-365 DAYS A YEAR I TRY TO GET ANYTHING THAT STINKS LESS.  aND NOW IM ALLERGIC TO K-36   A WAY OVERPRICED -THIN AND STUPID PRIMER .  SO YEAH ITS TRIAL AND ERROR. 

[Patronus]

another vote for the FP410  

If you have to leave it, leave it in sealer, better than primer IMHO

[b5blue]

More thanks for the input guys. 
  I'm inspired to continue stripping and start filling and patching what I can. The work done up to now is what's showed me the need to prep/repair and get a topcoat on it. White will let me do the car in sections then move to the next and then scuff and re-shoot the whole thing at my buddy's shop one last time. I'm bookmarking this topic for myself as a reference so add anything you think may help, work will be going slow between Dad duty and my job. I have some "throwaway" guns from Harbor Freight to mess with and a dryer and filters to add to my compressor next.   

[Patronus]

I would block sand the shit out of it starting with 150g. Bring it up to 220g-320g. Then a light "scratch-coat" of the FP410, wait 10 mins and then x2 full coats. After its dry, prep the whole car in 220 and begin your filler from there. Spot sand rougher where you use filler. I would also add, it can be hard to feather filler to filler. I always try to primer in between applications. (unless you cover the entire area again) And always use a block, they never lie. Work panel by panel from one end to the other, little by little and soon you'll be in sealer.. I would think B5 would be best with grey sealer depending on the actual shade you want. The sealer color will affect the final color tone. I just use the closest sealer color to save on paint.

[b5blue]

  I'm getting confused (Again) some specs call for etching primer on bare steel prior to urethane (2K) primer or epoxy primer? Can I use epoxy primer OVER steel, old paint and old primer? What about 2K urethane primer? (Of course given it's stable.) I'm having trouble interpreting 4 company's different specs.
  I may be pissing up a tree but am trying to find an all purpose primer for a urethane (single stage white) topcoat. So far only Eastwood's actually claims outright it will do this. I'm fine with trying their stuff but SPI has a very fine reputation on many forums.
  Also I'm assuming I can re-coat my urethane primer or top coat as long as it's properly scuffed/sanded.