Stolen Canadian 69 charger help

[fireguyfire]

This car was stolen up here by a scam artist, and thought it would be good to post here; I know this website got raked over the coals before and accused of being spam, but in this case I think everyone should read this article in case this car shows up in our charger world.     Thanks guys
http://www.mystarcollectorcar.com/2-features/editorials/1414-mscc-stolen-vehicle-alert-help-find-this-1969-dodge-charger-.html

[Johnnys440Charger]

Thats crazy.  Certified Check was no good?  I feel for the owner.  Left high and dry.

[RIDGERACER383]

That's why I only deal in cash.

[BBKNARF]

I'll keep my eyes open at all the events that I attend, is there a V.I.N.

[fireguyfire]

I'll see if I can get a vin # for it.

[kokxville]

THEY SHOULD HANG THOSE BASTARDS TO THE HIGHEST TREE YOU CAN FIND 

[Tilar]

    Nothing worse than a thief or a liar... One is as bad as the other and that guy has them both wrapped in to one package.

[Cooter]

That's why I only deal in cash.

Think again....Counterfeiters are out there. First thing the seller shoulda done was check with his/her bank and see if check was good or not BEFORE releasing the car.

[nvrbdn]

  these checks wernt invented yesterday. always have the bank check it out before releasing.

[histoy]

I think that the best way is to do a wire transfer of the cash from one bank to the other.  Then you know you have the money before you release the car.

[TUFCAT]

Thanks for posting. I hope the car is found!

[Mikesmoparperformance]

That sucks. Always check the money first before you give the guy the car!
I will keep my eyes open we will find it

[tan top]

aww man thats a bummer 

[stripedelete]

I hope there's a special place in hell for this guy.

So what's the end game is here?   How does the system work in Canada?  In the states the thief could "jump" title at which time the buyer is on the hook for accepting stolen property.  Will the Canadian system pick up the next transfer? 

Is it a hemi? Will it pay to go to trouble of swapping vins? Just seems like a lot of trouble and risk to just chop it up. 

Might be a good idea to post a vin with the pics.

[mopar_man]

Guess i never saw this post and started one of my own about this Charger .
the problem with cashiers checks and money orders is the bank will accept them and maybe two weeks down the road the bank will come back and say its bogus.
Too bad the seller never asked to get pic of the buyers(errrr thief) drivers lic . i bet that would make some of these guys a little more cautious especially if the dr lic got a pic on it .

[1974dodgecharger]

Guess i never saw this post and started one of my own about this Charger .
the problem with cashiers checks and money orders is the bank will accept them and maybe two weeks down the road the bank will come back and say its bogus.
Too bad the seller never asked to get pic of the buyers(errrr thief) drivers lic . i bet that would make some of these guys a little more cautious especially if the dr lic got a pic on it .

you can still get it checked by the bank to verifiy if its real and cash available. I did this onece  for selling one of my cars the person gave me a cashiers check from a so called 'bank' I then went to the bank with him and asked to verify the funds through the serial number on the check and once it was verified my bank took the money from his bank immediately through wire.

Even though checks, papers, etc. are still physical the wire of those 'papers' is avialble also as long as the funds are there.

[aussiemuscle]

Will it pay to go to trouble of swapping vins? Just seems like a lot of trouble and risk to just chop it up. 

i dunno, the parts sold separately are probably worth more than the car as a whole. hope they find it.

[TUFCAT]

I think you're right.  To protect the seller, a  photocopy of the buyer's driver's license and social security number should be mandatory in any private sale.

Dealerships require both...and there's a good reason why.

[Drache]

How does the system work in Canada?

Not sure in Alberta but here in BC a Vehicle Transfer/Tax Form must be filled out when selling a vehicle. Once that's done and sent to ICBC then the vehicle now belongs to the new owner. BUT the new vehicle could be tracked by ICBC so finding the new owner would be easy.

Most likely it will be stripped of it's parts or the dash vin will be swapped for a '69 charger the thief already owns.

[bmoparmofo]

Hopefully they track the car and p.o.s. down. I dont know how some people can live with themselves. 

[RallyeMike]

In case the link goes down. Looking for this guy and this car.

[Fred]

That really is badluck, I guess some of us are more trusting than other's.
Me, I don't trust anyone! I guess some of us have to learn the hard way.Lets hope he gets it back

[1974dodgecharger]

In case the link goes down. Looking for this guy and this car.

When I see that pic of looking down at the car its almost like I want to punch his face you can get a sense of what he is thinking in his head looking at the car. 

[mopar_man]

The pic needs to be facebooked !!!!!!!!!!!

[nelson_audet]

hey thanks for the pics ! i am in canada so i keep my eyes open...i love these pic, it give to me an idea of what my car will look with steel wheel and hubcap !

[charger_fan_4ever]

Even with a wire transfer the sending bank can recall the $$ within 24-48 hours. Best way would be in person at a bank with the seller.

This guy needs to be taken out back and get a close up look of a louisville slugger.

Scope kijiji.ca for 69 charger parts.

Imagine the nads on this retard. Pull up with a stolen truck/trailer to steal another $40k car. All it would have taken would be a stop sign or seatbelt and if the cops pulled him over it would be crowbar motel time. Mind you with our crappy judicial system here in canada he probably wouldn't spend a day in jail.

[gers1968rt]

I just posted this thread on my facebook, if we all do then we might catch the scumbag.

[westcoastdodge]

be hard to hide a car like that,certainly hope it dont get broken up and sold in parts

[70 Charger RT]

The real bad part about this deal is that the insurance company will not pay out because the vehicle was voluntarily turned over to the supposed purchaser.  It happened to a guy I know where two guys showed up one late friday afternoon and bought this truck with a phoney certified cheque.  By the time the guy cashed the cheque the following monday, the two guys were long gone.  This guy talked to the insurance company and they told him too bad so sad.

[Brass]

The real bad part about this deal is that the insurance company will not pay out because the vehicle was voluntarily turned over to the supposed purchaser.  It happened to a guy I know where two guys showed up one late friday afternoon and bought this truck with a phoney certified cheque.  By the time the guy cashed the cheque the following monday, the two guys were long gone.  This guy talked to the insurance company and they told him too bad so sad.

Then I would think its time to lawyer up.  Theft by deception is still theft.

[DC_1]

The real bad part about this deal is that the insurance company will not pay out because the vehicle was voluntarily turned over to the supposed purchaser.  It happened to a guy I know where two guys showed up one late friday afternoon and bought this truck with a phoney certified cheque.  By the time the guy cashed the cheque the following monday, the two guys were long gone.  This guy talked to the insurance company and they told him too bad so sad.

So if I park my car with a valet and the car gets stolen would I be out of luck because I voluntarily gave my keys to someone? Not doubting your story but there has to be more to it then that. I would think the scenario you told would not hold up in court. If the police issue a theft report because you were able to prove to them the vehicle was taken through fraudulent and illegal means I expect the insurance company would have to pay out. I mean after all, that's what theft insurance is for! - protecting you from criminal means of loosing your car.

[nvrbdn]

if that were true, how would it work when a guy goes to a car lot and goes on a test drive and never returns? the dealership handed the keys over and even put plates on the vehicle. then waved as the parties drove away. now the car is never returned. are they out their money?

[70 Charger RT]

I'm just saying that this guy was told by his isurance company that they would not cover it because he sold the car to these two guys.  He of course gave them a bill of sale as well.  He filled out a police report and all the rest of it.  Still no insurance.  Maybe because he gave them the bill of sale.  I don't know what the insurance companys policy was but he did not see and money from them.  As far as road testing a car, they don't transfer ownership to you until you pay them.

[stripedelete]

In the case of the valet, you didn't hand them the keys and the title.  You or your insurance company would go after that business.   (Even if it was an impostor.)

In the case of a dealership, again, you didn't hand them the title. 

In this case, I wonder if the insurance company views it as a bad business transaction.  How does it differ from a bad debt or doubtfull account?? Where  you sell a product.  The purchaser agrees to pay in 30 days but disappears.   
(I'm not by any means suggesting it's right).

Or maybe he cancelled the insurance before the check bounced.

We don't we have an insurance agent on this board?

[nvrbdn]

now that could be a difference in that if the insurance was canceled after the car left, then the check bounces. the insurance company might have an argument. id get a legal team on it.

[ACUDANUT]

Lawyer Vs. Insurance company time.
I hope they catch this asshole.

[DC_1]

Like I said to 70 ChargerRT, there has to be more to the story.

Getting back to the thread subject.

I think the car will end up with the VIN off a junker with a clean title or perhaps exported to the U.S and registered there. He has the title signed over to his name so he will most likely have no trouble crossing the border with it. After that all he needs is the import documents from Customs and the original registration and he will have no trouble getting virtually any stae to issue him a new title.

[Drache]

He cant use the original vin and title. those will be flagged if the car was reported stolen. odds are it'll be a vin swap and 10 years down the road after changing owners a number of times someone will realize the dash vin doesnt match the rest on the car, do a search, and find the car stolen.

[DC_1]

He cant use the original vin and title. those will be flagged if the car was reported stolen. odds are it'll be a vin swap and 10 years down the road after changing owners a number of times someone will realize the dash vin doesnt match the rest on the car, do a search, and find the car stolen.

It will be flagged as stolen in Canada but not the U.S.

If the scammer has the title signed over to him when he crosses the border they will process the paper work and not check with Canadian authorities to see if the car was stolen. I have sold several cars from Canada into the U.S and also brought several into Canada. The procedure is, you are suppose send a copy of the title and bill of sale to the border you intend on crossing 72 hours before so they can run the VIN. They then stamp your paperwork which you present to Customs on the other side. Everytime I have bought a car and crossed I have never stopped to do this. I think in the 8 or 9 times I have imported or exported a car only 1 time have they asked why I didn't have the stamp from the other side. I said I forgot and they gave me a lecture about how I'm suppose to and they could send me back to the otherside to get it done. They process things anyway and tell me to remember to do so next time.  Since I have the title signed over to my name along with the bill of sale as well as all numbers match what they inspect on the car ( which they have only come out and physically checked on 1 occasion) i am sure they assume i am being above board. The MTO (DMV in the U.S) don't have the ability to look up status of VIN from other countries and the fact that you have the original title and the import documents from Customs they just issue you a new registration.

I still have 4 vehicles I sold from Ontario into Michigan and Ohio dating back to the early 90s that still show being registered in my name in Ontario even though the vehicles were sold years ago. This is because they get issued a new title or registration and it's never reported back to the former licensing office.

Sorry for the long drawn out post but I thought it was important to let you know how easy it will be for this scammer to get away with this if he has the proper documents, which in this case he appears to possess.

[model maker]

I hope they catch the thief ! he may try and turn it into a general Lee to help hide it better.

[nvrbdn]

since they stole the truck and trailer, has there been any report about them being found or anything? i think it would be risky trying to come to the states driving a stolen truck and trailer with a stolen car in the back.

[472 R/T SE]

Even with a wire transfer the sending bank can recall the $$ within 24-48 hours. Best way would be in person at a bank with the seller.

This guy needs to be taken out back and get a close up look of a louisville slugger.

That's BS. I just went through this all yet again from selling a ride to someone in another country. 

The bank said there's absolutely, positively no way a bank can renege on a processed wire once the money is in the seller's account.  Wiring money is 99.9% safe.  The instant the money hits your account, that's it, the money is taken out of the other person's account & it's yours. 

I asked about a half dozen different ways for the money to be reversed & I think the bank rep. was getting perturbed with my baseless questions.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Even with a wire transfer the sending bank can recall the $$ within 24-48 hours. Best way would be in person at a bank with the seller.

This guy needs to be taken out back and get a close up look of a louisville slugger.

That's BS. I just went through this all yet again from selling a ride to someone in another country.  

The bank said there's absolutely, positively no way a bank can renege on a processed wire once the money is in the seller's account.  Wiring money is 99.9% safe.  The instant the money hits your account, that's it, the money is taken out of the other person's account & it's yours.  

I asked about a half dozen different ways for the money to be reversed & I think the bank rep. was getting perturbed with my baseless questions.

Hate to break it to you, but I work in a finance department in Canada and it has happened to us more than once the money had been recalled. I don't doubt the person behind the desk told you that it could not be.
Only way I deal in used cars is cash and have it checked at the bank with the seller.

Just like when we send wire tranfers we get a confirmation it is sent. Then 4-5 days later we get a call from the bank saying it was returned due to numerous reasons.

http://www.coveringcredit.com/business_credit_articles/Credit_Concepts/art345.shtml

"•A recall wire request is a request sent to the beneficiary bank to return a wire transfer payment."

From dealing with our bank I have also learned that the customer service is simlar to calling your phone company. Left hand does not talk to the right and you get conflicting stories all the time. No better service and our yearly bank fees are over 100k.......

[model maker]

The theif should also be charged with bank forgery and any other charges that can be thought up. someone here earlier said HANG HIM, I agree and add after you hang him cut him down right away and HANG HIM AGAIN.

[ACUDANUT]

Charger fan 4ever,
You make no Sense. :"Only way I deal in used cars is cash and have it checked at the bank with the seller"

You Have cash, and check it at the bank ?

[ACUDANUT]

Even with a wire transfer the sending bank can recall the $$ within 24-48 hours. Best way would be in person at a bank with the seller.

This guy needs to be taken out back and get a close up look of a louisville slugger.

That's BS. I just went through this all yet again from selling a ride to someone in another country.  

The bank said there's absolutely, positively no way a bank can renege on a processed wire once the money is in the seller's account.  Wiring money is 99.9% safe.  The instant the money hits your account, that's it, the money is taken out of the other person's account & it's yours.  

I asked about a half dozen different ways for the money to be reversed & I think the bank rep. was getting perturbed with my baseless questions.

I agree with 472.    Although, I don't know anything about Canada and it's French ways.

Just a friendly question:  Why do Canadians seem to side more with French(and speak their language), than Americans.  France is a long way, for support (if any). 
On the other hand, why are we forced to learn Spanish 

[charger_fan_4ever]

Charger fan 4ever,
You make no Sense. :"Only way I deal in used cars is cash and have it checked at the bank with the seller"

You Have cash, and check it at the bank ?

Meaning when I sell a used car it must be paid for in cash. I go with the buyer to the bank and have some of the bills checked to be sure the money is good. Then I sign over the title.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Even with a wire transfer the sending bank can recall the $$ within 24-48 hours. Best way would be in person at a bank with the seller.

This guy needs to be taken out back and get a close up look of a louisville slugger.

That's BS. I just went through this all yet again from selling a ride to someone in another country.  

The bank said there's absolutely, positively no way a bank can renege on a processed wire once the money is in the seller's account.  Wiring money is 99.9% safe.  The instant the money hits your account, that's it, the money is taken out of the other person's account & it's yours.  

I asked about a half dozen different ways for the money to be reversed & I think the bank rep. was getting perturbed with my baseless questions.

I agree with 472.  

Maybe banking policies are different in the states. As i said it has happened more than once that the money has been recalled on incoming wire transfers we have received. We use Toronto Dominion.

Same principle as paypal my friend sold some chrome mustang trim a couple years ago got paid via paypal. Money was taken out a week later as the guy said he didn't receive what he paid for. Sent a pic of his old rusty parts to paypal and said thats what he received. Then its your word vs his.

I don't think Canada sides with the french. The majority of quebec is french. They cry discrimination any chance they can, so everyone gives into them. I'm a real minority. An anglophone born and raised in Quebec.

[70 Charger RT]

Although, I don't know anything about Canada and it's French ways

Just so you know, french is based mostly in quebec which is one province in 10.  Most of the rest of Canada (non-quebec) is english.  Of course there are pockets in other provinces (new brunswick) of different languages throughout Canada.

If you come out west fro example you will find mostly english.

suc la blue

[472 R/T SE]

I wholeheartedly stand by my statement.  In the states wire transfers can not be reversed.

My bank even double checked to make sure the money was in the third party's account.  I didn't even take money from the buyer but a middle man/lady in Florida.

All I ask is you state your country is lenient with wire transfers instead of throwing out a blanket statement that both countries are the same cause we're not.

[CAPER]

Should show this to your Bank in the U.S. Lists a number of reasons why a wire transfer can be reversed in the U.S.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/4A/4A-211.html

[472 R/T SE]

Should show this to your Bank in the U.S. Lists a number of reasons why a wire transfer can be reversed in the U.S.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/4A/4A-211.html

Thanks for posting that.  It just confirms what I said if a person understands what is said

[charger_fan_4ever]

I wholeheartedly stand by my statement.  In the states wire transfers can not be reversed.

My bank even double checked to make sure the money was in the third party's account.  I didn't even take money from the buyer but a middle man/lady in Florida.

All I ask is you state your country is lenient with wire transfers instead of throwing out a blanket statement that both countries are the same cause we're not.

Read section H

A recall is possible through the bank of America.(second largest American bank)

https://onlineeast2.bankofamerica.com/cmsContent/en_US/eas-docs/help/help_sac_OLBS.html

Should show this to your Bank in the U.S. Lists a number of reasons why a wire transfer can be reversed in the U.S.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/4A/4A-211.html

Thanks for posting that.  It just confirms what I said if a person understands what is said

In the states wire transfers can not be reversed.

You said impossible to recall a wire in the US, so no it does not confirm it conflicts.

I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but you called b.s on me. I'm just providing facts. You can't cancel a wire transfer once it has been sent, but you CAN attempt to recall it after it hits the beneficiary's account. Yes your suppose to have a good reason to be able to recall a wire. In our cases the client made a payment to one of our competitors. Easily explained, it was a mix up on their end they recalled the wire $250k. I'm sure a scammer can come up with some false paper work in order to get a payment recalled. Like i said talk to two customer service reps at the bank and get two different stories. Same idea as talking to two different cashiers at walmart. They are entry level employees paid a little more than minimum wage, with bare essential training.

Call me old school, but its cash only on any significant amount of $$ in a personal transaction with someone I don't know.

[Drache]

I would ALMOST say this guy looks close to the thief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxIfKXuZhPg

[472 R/T SE]

Any & all attempts at retrieving the wire must be approved by the bank that received it is my point.  If the car has left my house you can bet I'll deny any attempts to reverse the wire.  Every time I also immediately transferred the money into a different account just because.

I'll stand by my BS statement.  A bank will not reverse a wire unless it's approved by me.  For that matter the bank has their hands tied if I deny them.  They can't just get into your account & withdraw $$ cause the buyer's Grandpa dies & he/she has 2nd thoughts.

You're in Finance.  My Mom has been a comptroller down in the DFW area for Chrysler @ almost 25 years. IIRC, I asked her years ago about secure ways to accept money.  I asked her about reversing wires & this was her response.  

"I have never ever heard of anyone being able to reverse a wire."

Tomorrow I'll call my bank & see if there's some kind of information online to relay everything I've been told. This isn't a pissin' match, I'm not bent out of shape & I hope you're not.      We just both happen to believe what we believe.  I had to call BS since all it takes is one poster to cry wolf about something being scam worthy & you have all these folks worried about wire tranfers'.





"Section H. Special Rules For International Transfers

·         Once an international transfer has been sent, it cannot be cancelled or amended. You may request an international transfer be recalled, and we will communicate your request to the beneficiary's bank. If the beneficiary's bank agrees to return the funds to us, then upon confirmation of receipt of funds in our account, we will credit your account at the current Bank of America retail buy rate for that currency that day (see below). Please note that the exchange rate will be different from the original rate applicable to the transfer, which may result in a loss to you. Furthermore, the beneficiary's bank may assess charges for their services, which will be deducted from the amount returned to you. We will have no liability to you if the beneficiary's bank or foreign beneficiary refuses your request to recall the international wire transfer."

[charger_fan_4ever]

No i'm not riled up

I understood you to say it was impossible for a wire transfer to be reveresed. I was just pointing out that it is possible. Like I said you can't recall it for any old reason say because you changed your mind. It has to be a legit reason. What I was hinting at was that a scammer that has gone as far as to steal a car with, would probably be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get some form of fraudulant paperwork in order to get the funds back.

As you know not all institutes follow rules. The bank never called us when the funds were reversed just sent a notice of reversal. Should they have done this no, but as I'm sure you know things don't always go as planned.

Like all these Nigerian scams that they are going to send you money by wire for your goods and you ship it. Yes its usually westernion union they ask for, but i have received spam where they are saying they will pay by W/T.For sure they have found a loophole if they are going the wire route.

To each his own for sure. Maybe its just me, but if i don't know the person and were talking a significant amount of money I don't trust anyone nowdays. Cash and have it checked at a bank in person is the only way I deal with joe blow off the street.