OMG! I need a Bird nose! Who has one or does a quality reproduction???

[rainbow4jd]

Well, its a watershed moment in my restoration!   Now that its been sandblasted and looked at.... my old nose is really rough, and will require quite a lot, if not astronomical amounts, of labor to restore it to the like new quality I want for my restoration. So, I need to look at replacement noses.

My body guy says, I "need a complete nose and internal brackets; everything from the fenders and radiator forward" - IF I want to do it right.   Since, the nose is what defines the car and I'm doing the rest of it "right" - how can I compromise?

Is there anyone who has a complete nose with all the mounting brackets for sale?

If I go reproduction - who do you recommend?

I want the reproduction to be every bit as good as an original.  (And yes, I know every nose is different and will still have to be "fitted" to my bird).  What I want is the similar quality steel - the same bends and angles on the internal brackets - basically a true reproduction and NOT "here, this will work and no one will ever see it".

Thanks for all your help.

PS  I would prefer "first hand" recommendations from people who have seen the actual quality, but any leads will still be appreciated.

PSS  I probably will have a slightly used "complete" nose for sale later on - better than what someone will find on a trashed out junk yard bird.    So when I do, you all will get first dibs.

Steve Vance

[DAY CLONA]

Well Steve my Superbird nose cone is a fiberglass version, if you want to do it "correctly", a steel nose is your only choice, Jack McGaughey has a very nice assembled repro steel nose,...price is in the $6K range, at www.wingcarfab.com I'm not sure how Jack's work load is, or his current lead time,....Gene Gregory is your second choice with a very nice steel repro, at about $5500.....Gene's nose is shipped in pcs so that you can assemble it, these above 2 gentlemen produce high quality steel nosecones, as I've had their pcs in my possession at one time or another


Steel internals, your limited to either me (Dayclona) I offer all the internal pcs/parts, Gene Gregory offers a few pcs, as does Jack McGaughey, and lastly Eric Nelson or Ron Knifley, they offer a few internals as well......I've had all their pcs at one time or another in my possession, and I've listed in order their names based (IMHO) on the quality of offerings from myself and others


My work load is balls to the wall right now with several members from Moparts and DC.com, I'm probably 2-3 months out from possibly offering you anything, and anything that was "in stock" is gone, or spoken for.....


Keep in mind, if you do locate anything, don't hesitate, as wingcar parts, used, NOS, or repro are few and far between, and lead times are greater than most vendors



Mike

[Montreal Wing Car]

There is a N.O.S. nose in the classifieds in the latest Mopar Collector's guide...
Ben

[oldcarnut]

Here's some steel repop places.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-SUPERBIRD-NOSE-CONE-MOPAR-PLYMOUTH-Nosecone-/130635763321?hash=item1e6a7f8e79&item=130635763321&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
http://www.wingcarfab.com/superbird_parts.html
I've been to Jacks place before.  Member Mike at  Dayclona also makes pops.
This one is a member here too. Don Currie
http://alumasheds.ca/umcp/cars.htm

Pc hanged up while loading the reply so a couple of these are repeated

[maxwellwedge]

I think AERO426 has an NOS nose - Frank Badalson has one too.

[moparstuart]

  I would say if you cant restore your original !!!  I would get one of the NOS's one listed .  I would bet you will be better off trying to restore the internal parts off yours or just replace a few here and there as needed.    original is the way to go on your car        Pictures or your stuff and the problems with them would help .  

[Aero426]

I think AERO426 has an NOS nose - Frank Badalson has one too.

Correct, I have one NOS nose available.   The other one Frank has is in MCG this month. 

[DAY CLONA]

Here's some steel repop places.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-SUPERBIRD-NOSE-CONE-MOPAR-PLYMOUTH-Nosecone-/130635763321?hash=item1e6a7f8e79&item=130635763321&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

That's Gene Gregory stuff, really nice repro..........actual stampings, not hand formed, I know he usually sells them in a "knock down" stage where to have to assemble them, but if that's one he's assembled, your ahead of the game at $4500,....plus you'll have shipping, shipping cones isn't cheap, last cone I shipped cost $520 truck freight, but that was coast to coast,.....if you got the coin, NOS is nice too, but be cautious as "some" NOS cones sometimes lack certain flanges or details,......... or some sections, or grille openings can be dimensionally "off", either requiring rework or custom made parts..........as I've often had to make missing componets or custom grilles for customers, Tona and Bird

[Redbird]

As mentioned, folks have laid out pretty well your options for the cone shell.

Parking light mounting brackets, just buy reproductions. I can't think of the last original set I saw for sale, it was multiple decades ago, if ever. The 3 lower frames, originals, sometimes come up for sale, but rarely. Sue George had reproductions made about 25 years ago and they are almost perfect, I don't think 99 out of 100 owners could tell even if they were side by side with originals. I picked up a NOS drivers side which I needed and which I believe is the hardest to find, on e-bay for a very good price on a "Buy it now" several years ago.  Some of the current frame reproductions are ill proportioned at the corners.

Latch tray and z-braces, most visible, and people look at them when the hood is open. Watch for "tweaked" latch tray originals that were in an accident. You can find an original here, takes time. Original Z-braces, very scarce.

Headlight buckets. There are originals, which I believe you can tell from reproductions. Most people restoring a car want to pay about $ 50 more for originals than reproductions. Most people who have originals want a lot more, so the originals sit under garage benches, ask me how I know.

The 3 mounting channels, I've seen for sale infrequently.

If you can find originals, buy them, then you won't have to say I couldn't find originals. Otherwise buy the best reproductions. Mike Goyette has a good reputation for reproductions.

I was missing one z-brace for one of my cars. I had a reproduction on that side for years, which was not at all perfect. A few years ago I found an original, and I'm much happier when I open the hood. The good thing about latch trays and z-braces is that they don't have to match the exterior color since they are black.

[rainbow4jd]

Thanks everyone.

Actually, the latch tray is the one item that we don't need.  And that is a story in itself - I bought the latch tray for my car BEFORE I actually bought my car!  (I'll explain it another time). 

I'll do some research on the vendors you all have noted.  I have some time - as I can have my body guy work on the back of the car and save the nose for last.   

I'm pretty excited and I have a unique Body Guy, of which I'll tell a small story...   I get a phone call.   

KENNY:  "Well, I need to talk to you about the Superbird, we've got a problem!"  (I'm thinking "oh, crap!  the body shop burned up!" or something bad).
KENNY:  "The Bird is about a 1/16 inch crooked from nose to tail."
ME:  "OK, what does that mean?"
KENNY:  "Well, these old cars weren't produced to today's standards.  It looks like it came that way from the factory."
ME:  "OK, what does that mean?"
KENNY:  "Well, you could probably have it straighten, but I wouldn't do that."
ME:  "OK, what does that mean?"
KENNY: "Well, I can basically fit the body to where you'll never see it.  I'll line up all the panels and unless you've got a laser beam on it, you'll never see it."
ME:  "OK, what does that mean?"
KENNY: "Well, I just wanted you to know about it and to let you know you didn't need to worry about it!"
ME:  "KENNY!  DON'T SCARE ME LIKE THAT!  I don't want to know about any problems - unless they are problems either YOU can't fix!  I just about had a heart attack!"

Yep, that's the kind of guy I've got working on the car!!!!!   

[rainbow4jd]

I think AERO426 has an NOS nose - Frank Badalson has one too.

Correct, I have one NOS nose available.   The other one Frank has is in MCG this month. 

Let me forward this over to my guy (since he would be the one to come and see it).   Do you have a contact number or IF you want to contact me directly my email is.... vroomvroomracing@yahoo.com

[rainbow4jd]

Here's some steel repop places.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-SUPERBIRD-NOSE-CONE-MOPAR-PLYMOUTH-Nosecone-/130635763321?hash=item1e6a7f8e79&item=130635763321&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

Does anyone have a contact for Gene or can pass my information and interest along?   Email me at vroomvroomracing@yahoo.com




That's Gene Gregory stuff, really nice repro..........actual stampings, not hand formed, I know he usually sells them in a "knock down" stage where to have to assemble them, but if that's one he's assembled, your ahead of the game at $4500,....plus you'll have shipping, shipping cones isn't cheap, last cone I shipped cost $520 truck freight, but that was coast to coast,.....if you got the coin, NOS is nice too, but be cautious as "some" NOS cones sometimes lack certain flanges or details,......... or some sections, or grille openings can be dimensionally "off", either requiring rework or custom made parts..........as I've often had to make missing componets or custom grilles for customers, Tona and Bird

[Patronus]

Honestly, 1/16"... really... honestly? 

[rainbow4jd]

^^

yep, I couldn't believe it either. 

BUT..... that's why I love him.   He only believes in doing things PRECISE and if there is something that we have to compromise on, he'll always tell me.   Plus, he takes photos of everything.   He is like an artist and he wants his body work to be a reflection of him.

Here's a link to another car he did.  This is what caught my eye and convinced me this is the guy I wanted to do my car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFbeRdOpqTg&feature=related

[rainbow4jd]

And here's another link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC9Ts-H-bl8&feature=related

Look at the way the doors hang and fit

[montana bird]

I have a new Gene Gregory nose in a crate. I will say the quality is dam nice.

[rainbow4jd]

We are going to Illinois first to look at those - I think later this week.

I'll keep you all posted.

[Hemi Runner]

You'll be thrilled with it. I just bought one as well from Gean. He put mine together for me like in the photos since I picked it up. He's got several there but the die that he stamps them on is going to be melted down and made into a daytona nose die so get 'em while they're available. He's got everything there for building a bird but it's all $$$$. Great guy to talk to.

[rainbow4jd]

Does anyone have some contact information for Gene - or did I miss it earlier in this thread?

[Hemi Runner]

PM Sent

[DonC1]

Curious....does Gene stamp the top nose piece only then hand form the corners and center or stamp all?

[70Sbird]

You'll be thrilled with it. I just bought one as well from Gean. He put mine together for me like in the photos since I picked it up. He's got several there but the die that he stamps them on is going to be melted down and made into a daytona nose die so get 'em while they're available. He's got everything there for building a bird but it's all $$$$. Great guy to talk to.

Welcome to site!
I'm assuming this is Mike? Great crowd here and more info than you will ever need!
I was going to forward you the link to the forum but it looks like you found it
Scott

[montana bird]

No my nose from gene is all stamped. Top, 2 sides and bottom center. They are really solid. They are expensive, but the quality is Great. I had mine  not assembled. I thought I would hang it on the car bolt all the bottom together then spot weld the bottom. The top and brace to the latch tray can then be adjusted slightly to line up with the hood better. Just my thoughts, I have not done it yet so could be wrong.

[Hemi Runner]

You'll be thrilled with it. I just bought one as well from Gean. He put mine together for me like in the photos since I picked it up. He's got several there but the die that he stamps them on is going to be melted down and made into a daytona nose die so get 'em while they're available. He's got everything there for building a bird but it's all $$$$. Great guy to talk to.

Welcome to site!
I'm assuming this is Mike? Great crowd here and more info than you will ever need!
I was going to forward you the link to the forum but it looks like you found it
Scott

Hey Scott,
  Yes I found it. Lots of aero car info here!! I got my hood and fenders. Went with fiberglass to keep weight off. Can't wait to get this project underway!!

[rainbow4jd]

UPDATED!  WE BOUGHT A NOSE AND SUPPORTS!   And my Body man and my Rebuilder both say "better quality than original!!!'

Thanks for everyone who helped!    

Once I figure out how to start posting pictures - I'll probably start a restoration thread.

Thanks again!

PS  I editted this thread because - while I don't think there is any issue - I want to ensure that my vendor is OK with me telling everyone where I got my stuff.   My Rebuilder is going to confirm it is OK.   Then, I intend to spread the news to everyone.

[mopar4ya]

So who built the nose you bought???


Dan.

[rainbow4jd]

Dan, I want to make sure its OK to provide his information.   I presume that it will be - but some people are funny about things like that, and I would rather ask permission first.   Please stay tuned.    Once I get his permission I will actually start a new thread just to recommend him.  I editted my other response to take his name and info out, until I get permission.  Hope I'm not being a pain.  I'll ask my Rebuilder to contact the vendor for permission.

[hemi68charger]

That's awesome you were able to get what you want.. Sounds like you have an awesome body man................  But, I say this from experience, make sure he understands all the "little detail" things as well when it comes to Mopars. I have seen people in the past have their Chargers, Road Runners, etc restored by the most talented of body men, but there were things that were left out or done "incorrectly". For example, on the 2nd generation Chargers,( '68-'70), the seams between the end caps and the rear valance were NOT filled in, only the end caps to quarters. Now, I know you're working on a Plymouth. I just trying to illustrate that the best of intentions have a "not-so-good" outcome. If he's fluent in Mopar-specific body construction, awesome !!!  If he's not, make sure he has an open mind to customer input...

Congrads,
Troy

PS. If you need help loading pictures, PM or do a search, I believe there are threads on this.. The most important thing is to resize/rescale the picture to make sure it is 200 Kb or smaller.

[Redbird]

When you use reproduction parts for something, especially something as visible as a nose cone, there is almost always a "tell". It maybe something small. My suggestion is to be consistently upfront about it like you have been.

[rainbow4jd]

In double reply..... I am fortunate that I have a lot of personal Mopar experience and my best friend, Bryan Skanes, has tremendous Mopar experience.  Our run of cars have included...

hemi coronet
daytona
superbirds (2 were mine)
hemi gtx (me and Bryan split that one)
aar cuda
t/a challenger
three 440-6 cudas (2 were mine)
rt/se challenger (me and Bryan split that one)

And the big ones.... Dan Gurney's AAR Cuda, Sam Posey's Trans Am Challenger, and Petty's Saturday Night special race cars

So, I am pretty lucky to have the knowledge base and expertise to make sure we do it right.

Now, the other thing... what defines a repair, a reproduction, or a clone?

My general opinion is a nose repair is body work and no different than putting new quarters in or hanging a new fender.  I know some people get all excited about this and if they want to do so.... that's their issue not mine.   This is a restored matching numbers vehicle.  So, I intend to fully disclose all repairs and in fact keep a detailed restoration photo notebook (because any future buyer will need to see the detailed level of quality that I've put into this - If I ever hope to get any of the money back from the quality of the restoration.  It has to be good and it has to be documented).   

That being said, the reason I am hanging onto the original nose is to ensure that it DOES match and there are no "tells".   

But from a conversation standpoint.... "I had to redo the quarters and we replaced the nose.  Here's the pictures."   After that it's.... "Show me your money and I'll give you the details."  Otherwise, I am happy and that's the only opinion that matters.  If somebody wants to hate - have at it.  To me, the only opinions that count are mine and those of someone far down the road who might decide to write me a check. 

I will be honest, accurate, and documented about everything we do.  But for the guy who tries to piss on my parade becaue I don't have the "original air in my tires" - I don't have any time for his pettiness (no pun intended).

PS That's not intended at any person on this board, just general comments about how I feel about "restoration haters"

[moparstuart]

In double reply..... I am fortunate that I have a lot of personal Mopar experience and my best friend, Bryan Skanes, has tremendous Mopar experience.  Our run of cars have included...

hemi coronet
daytona
superbirds (2 were mine)
hemi gtx (me and Bryan split that one)
aar cuda
t/a challenger
three 440-6 cudas (2 were mine)
rt/se challenger (me and Bryan split that one)

And the big ones.... Dan Gurney's AAR Cuda, Sam Posey's Trans Am Challenger, and Petty's Saturday Night special race cars

So, I am pretty lucky to have the knowledge base and expertise to make sure we do it right.

Now, the other thing... what defines a repair, a reproduction, or a clone?

My general opinion is a nose repair is body work and no different than putting new quarters in or hanging a new fender.  I know some people get all excited about this and if they want to do so.... that's their issue not mine.   This is a restored matching numbers vehicle.  So, I intend to fully disclose all repairs and in fact keep a detailed restoration photo notebook (because any future buyer will need to see the detailed level of quality that I've put into this - If I ever hope to get any of the money back from the quality of the restoration.  It has to be good and it has to be documented).   

That being said, the reason I am hanging onto the original nose is to ensure that it DOES match and there are no "tells".   

But from a conversation standpoint.... "I had to redo the quarters and we replaced the nose.  Here's the pictures."   After that it's.... "Show me your money and I'll give you the details."  Otherwise, I am happy and that's the only opinion that matters.  If somebody wants to hate - have at it.  To me, the only opinions that count are mine and those of someone far down the road who might decide to write me a check. 

I will be honest, accurate, and documented about everything we do.  But for the guy who tries to piss on my parade becaue I don't have the "original air in my tires" - I don't have any time for his pettiness (no pun intended).

PS That's not intended at any person on this board, just general comments about how I feel about "restoration haters"

[DonC1]

Speaking of stamped ' noses '...this is a great set of books that reveals much insight into metal stamping processes etc..

http://www.autofuturist.org/Book-4-Preview.php