There were four DMCL cars.

[MoparManJim]

But a few frames later, same turn...what do you see now in the second photo? I say maybe chrome. Lighting plays tricks, too.

Do I see a camera mount with camera on the pass side of the car? shure as heck looks like it. 

[Brock Lee]

I see two small holes.. meaning script is removed.

Meaning SE emblem removed. There would have been no reason to remove Charger scripts. If the car is a known SE, that explains why the emblems were removed.

[404NOTFOUND]

jwramc, you are the master at this and your right. I expanded your pic 1 and the button is clearly black but with a lot of glare on it. Your pic 2 looks like chrome but it is not. The chrome look was caused by glare which created a streak of light. This also happened to the key lock on the door. The real proof though is the paint chip below larry's elbow. It is exactly the same in both pics therefore the same car. I also agree about the 440 emblem, no doubt about that. So we can conclude then that there is no 4th car with chrome buttons. Just thought I'd also mention that I did confirm that the car that hit the train does have the tall bumperettes that the SE car has. Just one question, how do we know that car is an SE model and not just a standard model?

[jwramc]

I don't know man, pic 2 looks to me like there is a script there inside that glare spot.  I still think three.

Yup, just three, but the pic with the glare is during the same turn into the grove area as my first two photos in my previous note... and it's obvious in those two there is no emblem and no holes for one. Remember, it's an SE, so it never had a Charger script there...just the tiny SE badge right up against the point of the quarter window...
http://www.madwhips.com/upload/images/1969_dodge_charger_se_7.JPG

[Ghoste]

How did we determine it was an SE?

[jwramc]

The lack of the C-pillar emblem is the biggie. The film was done on a shoestring budget, so they bought the three most-local, loest cost and available right now Charger they could find. They didn't bother with assuring they'd match, and the '68 is proof a plenty of that. Now, Bert's car (my #1) was originally a light blue with black top base model, and the engine compartment was repainted white and the R/T badges added by a prior owner. They may have even changed the color. But for the film, it was shot Cotron yella and had the slot wheels added...no more in-depth prep.

Same for (my) #2, the SE. It had no C-pillar Charger badge, so none was added. It also has the optional tall bumperettes, head rests, etc. The #1 got none of that.
If #2 were a base model, the emblem would have stayed on it.

#1 '69 R/T-badged base model
#2 '69 SE de-badged
#3 '58 R/T (real/fake?)

[Ghoste]

Not trying to be argumentative, kind of doing this in passing with a lot of other stuff going on and wanting to have my facts straight, so...
on the one you feel is an SE, where the script is missing, I recall someone (you?) mentioning holes for the badge that was there.  Do we have a good pic of the holes giving an idea of spacing and position?
I ask because there is no other evidence of it being an SE and I just like this stuff.

[jwramc]

By all means, I don't take the debate as an attack. Never do. I'm all about digging for the facts, and am happy to be corrected if a good argument can be made. No need to soft-pedal or hold back in anyway. I don't take offense to it.

I believe MMJim mentioned the holes being visible, but he's looking at a pic 404 posted, a pic taken of a TV screen where a reflection of sun bounces off the C-pillar. I posted two direct screen captures of the car a few frames before and after that reflection and the pillar is totally clean- no holes at all. The 'holes' are an illusion of that one frame of film. I believe someone else has mentioned that the tall bumperettes were an SE option (meaning not available on a base model). If true, it's most likely an original SE. It's a more optioned-up car than Bret's faux RT which had the standard steering wheel and no headrests...an originally base model car faked into an RT *most likely* by a prior owner (if the film crew had faked the RT, they'd have fakes the SE into an RT, too, for continuity. In the end, they just painted and striped, and screw the rest of the details.

It's a matter of the simplest answer is likely the truth. If it were not an SE, it would have Charger emblems...because they didn't remove them from the other 2 cars...so why remove them from this car? Most  simple solution is this car had no Charger emblems...and that, with the bumperettes and headrests suggests an SE.

[nvrbdn]

right, jim thought he saw something. the break down makes sense to me. they really didnt try to change badging or anything else for that matter. im almost to duton flats and the flea market, so i will be checking all these facts shortly.

[Ghoste]

Thats why I asked though because the bumperettes and headrests have nothing to dowith being an SE.  Headrests of course were optional prior to January 1969 and around the same time (approx.) the smaller bumperettes appeared.  To me, those two items taken together only mean it was a late build car.  The missing badge has some credence though.  Any good shots of the alleged SE car that show the dash?  No woodgrain= no SE because I really cant see them going tothe trouble to find black dash bezels if they weren't overly concerned about 68 grilles and lenses.


(I feel like the GL fans arguing over the shade of tan used for the interior )

[jwramc]

Thats why I asked though because the bumperettes and headrests have nothing to dowith being an SE.  Headrests of course were optional prior to January 1969 and around the same time (approx.) the smaller bumperettes appeared.  To me, those two items taken together only mean it was a late build car.  The missing badge has some credence though.  Any good shots of the alleged SE car that show the dash?  No woodgrain= no SE because I really cant see them going tothe trouble to find black dash bezels if they weren't overly concerned about 68 grilles and lenses.

Woodgrain- good info! See, I'm a Charger fan in the more 'overall' sense. I love the look and the power. But I'm no equipment list guru like I am for 71-74 Javelins and AMXs. So it's great I landed here to learn such stuff. The "SE" car's dash is seen OFTEN and there's NO woodgrain...and it doesn't look like they "quickie painted it" to match the faux RT...so you may be right that we have two base models after all. So where did the C-pillar emblems go? Could be anything...but perhaps they we removed when the vinyl top was removed...and misplaced before being put back on? We may never know, actually. What else can we use to say for certain it is or isn't an SE?

(I feel like the GL fans arguning over the shade of tan used for the interior )

I definitely don't. 

[nvrbdn]

which models got the shoulder belts?

[Brock Lee]

They all had shoulder belts after January 1968.

I not an SE. maybe that was the first car to get converted and they broken the emblems trying to remove them. Then figured out you have to go behind the headliner to access the speed nuts.  I have seen this happen on countless Chargers customized over the years.

[nvrbdn]

yep, and if they broke them, they would toss em and fill in the holes.  ok brock then my 70 500 should have the shoulder belt also?

[nvrbdn]

ok, this is getting nit-picky also, but when they reach the charger the front tires are pointed straight. when they pull out ripping the cops door off the tires were pointed straight. but when larry is watching the cop while spinning the hood ornament you see the horn ring at the top of the steering wheel. later you see the charger has the partial horn ring, not the full horn ring. i understand from earlier reading that the close ups were done at other times with whatever car was available. as stated, the car at the flea market was the one that hit the train since it had the eye bolts for the cables. the main car you call #1 that they call #2 was the one we see most driving around. did the train wreck car actually leave the flea market then the switch was made to the main car? if so, was the steering wheel different, or just turned like they were turning right and a filming fluke?

[jwramc]

ok, this is getting nit-picky also, but when they reach the charger the front tires are pointed straight. when they pull out ripping the cops door off the tires were pointed straight. but when larry is watching the cop while spinning the hood ornament you see the horn ring at the top of the steering wheel. later you see the charger has the partial horn ring, not the full horn ring. i understand from earlier reading that the close ups were done at other times with whatever car was available. as stated, the car at the flea market was the one that hit the train since it had the eye bolts for the cables. the main car you call #1 that they call #2 was the one we see most driving around. did the train wreck car actually leave the flea market then the switch was made to the main car? if so, was the steering wheel different, or just turned like they were turning right and a filming fluke?

Yup, that's nit-picky!! 

Ok, when Larry's says "There she is", the first shot of the Charger for the whole film is (my) #2 car with the two rig mounted beneath it. That shot was done VERY late when the crew returned to the location to film some footage they'd either forgot to shot, or decided to add. It's shot well after most of the other Charger scenes of the film except for the train crash, which was logically saved for last.

The Impala arriving, and Larry saying 'There she is", all the scenes inside the car with the hood ornament, and the car starting, leaving and hitting the cop car door....where all filmed 4-6 weeks earlier with the #1 car.

The later shoot with #2 incorporates the moments when Larry and Deke put the money bag and tool box in the trunk, and the famous extra scene of Larry pitching quarters.

That said, both exterior shot of the cars (the first viewing of #2 when they arrive, and the #1 starting to move) show the tires pointed dead ahead. The interior shots, filmed early, but still hours or days away from the exterior shots, show the steering wheel is NOT pointed dead ahead.

Okay, why?

Because they were shooting there for a couple of days. The day the RT drove out, the actors likely weren't even there- that's a stunt driver. The day the actors were needed for inside the car- different day. But every night, the crew equipment and cars all left the site. There was an asphalt lot about five miles away that they rented to use as a staging area...right in the middle of the walnut groves where most of the fast driving was done. So, on the day of the actors' interior scenes, whoever backed the Charger into that spot left the wheels turned and nobody gave it a second thought. One of those minute details that just didn't matter before VCRs.

[404NOTFOUND]

And that explains something else I noticed. If you look at the scene where they are loading the trunk of the #2 car at Dutton Flats, you will notice that the paint on the edge of the trunk lid is horribly chipped. Not a likely situation on a car that was just painted. It was probably chipped from camera mounts in previously filmed scenes.

[jwramc]

Precisely.

[71gtx]

ithink the rt is a 440 4  speed car In the scene after he crashes into the truck, and they fix the front tire, When he peels out and runs over his own tire, look at the ass end of the car and you'll see the dana 60. 

[model maker]

I just cannot remember exact tire size that was on the car when i got it  however the rims were 15X8 front & 15 X 10 rear. i remember the rear tires being BIG, there were Goodyears and the spare in the trunk was flat with a stock rim size 14  I noticed  one of the chargers that had the fake 69 tailights had smaller tires and the burning charger also had the same small tires. My Charger had the vinyl top removed before painting and some of the fabric was still under the molding and passenger side Charger emblem on the roof sail. I have always wondered IF one of the cars had the vinyl top painted yellow as I have seen that at car shows where the charger there looks like it doesn't have a vinyl top until i got close up then you could tell by the texture. If one of the cars had a yellow painted vinyl top it would be hard to tell on the film technology of the 70's.

[Brock Lee]

  ok brock then my 70 500 should have the shoulder belt also?

Yes, it should. I guess the exception could be if it were a car to be exported. Many of our cars had them removed once the elastic that held them up in place when not used wore out.

[nvrbdn]

i guess i need to look for some then.

[jwramc]

ithink the rt is a 440 4  speed car In the scene after he crashes into the truck, and they fix the front tire, When he peels out and runs over his own tire, look at the ass end of the car and you'll see the dana 60. 

There was no '69 R/T. Only a base model 318 car wearing R/T badges. It's likely none of the 3 cars had a 440... except on the stripes.

[71gtx]

ithink the rt is a 440 4  speed car In the scene after he crashes into the truck, and they fix the front tire, When he peels out and runs over his own tire, look at the ass end of the car and you'll see the dana 60. 

There was no '69 R/T. Only a base model 318 car wearing R/T badges. It's likely none of the 3 cars had a 440... except on the stripes.

318 cars do not come with  front sway bar

the pic of rt  has a  front sway bar   383 and440 cars come with  front sway bar 

[jwramc]

The car was four years old when bought for the film. It had been previously altered before the film crew bought it, and was further altered for the film. Stunt drivers would have wanted that sway bar, and it's a simple bolt on.

The car also had no headrests and the base steering wheel. The guy who bought the car after filming ended has stated the car was not an RT, just badged as one. The 318 in it would bear him out.