The Origins of the Daytona Charger Thread

[XS29J8]

All 500's were originally to be a HEMI & 4spd, then a later memo stating HEMI with automatic would be accepted, then another memo accepting the 440.

I don't recall a bulletin that mandated a 426/A833 combo.  Bulletin #1 (dated 7/18/68) did have a 426 stipulation, but it mentioned both auto and manual would be available.  Bulletin #4 (dated 9/9/68) opened the door for the 440 option - again, with either transmission.

Is there another one?

Geno, there is a memo or bulletin earlier than your 1st one for June 1st, but it was directed to Dodge dealers and not actually announcing the 500. It basically said not to accept any more 68 Charger R/T HEMI with 4spd orders or anyone ordering a HEMI and wanted a 4spd would receive the new Charger 500. Some how I might have taken it to mean all 500's would be 4spd, I'm not sure of the exact wording. You'll be the first to receive a copy of this memo or bulletin when I find it............I can't imagine no one else on this board hasn't seen or doesn't have this memo.............


Cheers,
Steve

[nascarxx29]

Chrysler was known for misinformation the 69 500 was only to be a 426 in letter form and brochure

[Ghoste]

Steve, can I be second?

[nascarxx29]

Guess all you can do is search through whatever archive material on the #88 for clues to what year it is.Before it went through all its metal changes.If any are there to find

[nascarxx29]

There was all kinds of promo bulletins put out to dealers this one is not for a aero car but was signed off by father of the daytona .Bob McCurry.If your bulletin exists wonder who signed off on it.Frank Wylie Bob Mc Curry or ?

Thanks to Dave Wingcars69/70 from Moparts for the Salesman Ad

[nascarxx29]

Looked for a bulletin you mentioned there are 28 69 charger press releases or so on here.
http://www.1969chargerregistry.com/gallery/press/pr_photo_69_charger_500

http://www.1969chargerregistry.com/gallery/press

[XS29J8]

Steve, can I be second?

I'm sure I'll post it like Dave did. The one I'm talking about is similar to the 1st bulletin but doesn't describe the other items you couldn't get with the 500. After seeing the bulletins Dave posted I know the one I'm talking about is much earlier, need a 68 tech line........ 1-800-68HELLP

Steve

[nascarxx29]

Have you tried Hamtramck historical Barry washingtons site he might have 68 bulletins.Or maybe Wayne Wooten of TDC charger registry


http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/library-2.shtml
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/index.shtml

[nascarxx29]

The only archive 68 charger material I found was on a 68 Hemi charger RT roadtest.And topless charger before it was the supercharger and once its named beig a Hemi .Even though the 440 is on the hood
http://www.fendertagshop.com/index.php?q=node/19

http://www.fendertagshop.com/index.php?q=node/20

[nascarxx29]

just my 2 .As mentioned the original #88 car went through various years of metal changeouts.And exact year of vin cant be determined.Wonder if the under chassis would yield any particular year clues .I know on 68 cars the the bolts retaining the transmission crossmember and the holes in the frame accepting them are larger .And got smaller in 69-.And a original color should exist on the car somewhere

[Aero426]

just my 2 .As mentioned the original #88 car went through various years of metal changeouts.And exact year of vin cant be determined.Wonder if the under chassis would yield any particular year clues .I know on 68 cars the the bolts retaining the transmission crossmember and the holes in the frame accepting them are larger .And got smaller in 69-.And a original color should exist on the car somewhere

Posted on Friday:   "The real #88 chassis still has evidence of some factory blue paint down on the rocker panels.  This supports the idea that it started out as a street body, painted metallic blue."

[Ghoste]

How many 500's are alleged to have been stolen from Chrysler?  I'm starting to get confused with this whole thing.  There was one car stolen from the press fleet and recoverd and sent to Cotten Owens correct?

[Aero426]

How many 500's are alleged to have been stolen from Chrysler?  I'm starting to get confused with this whole thing.  There was one car stolen from the press fleet and recoverd and sent to Cotten Owens correct?

The stolen press 500 was reportedly sent to Nichels for conversion into what became the #88 Daytona.    Cotton had nothing to do with the 88 car.

[Ghoste]

Okay then, so what is this one he was supposed to have changed?  (I don't know why I'm having so much trouble keeping up with this but I am)

[69_500]

Okay now I'm totally confused. I was under the impression that the HEMI 500 that was stolen out of California and that eventually went to Cotton Owens (missing engine and trans if I remember correctly) and then was later loaned to Creative to use for Daytona mock ups was then sent back to Cotton who sold it to a gentleman locally. Who by my information still owns the car. It is a R4 red, black interior (cloth insert seats), power windows, car with a white tail stripe. Identical to the 110610 car as far as options are concerened. If I can find the magazine article that shows the car I would scan it in, but I'm pretty sure it was in the MCG.


Okay found the article but not sure about scanning it as it mention the owners name and I don't feel confortable mentioning it as I don't know the person personally. If you do a simple search on Ebay for Cotton's Charger 500 there are plenty of ads for the article for sale.

[Ghoste]

FWIW Danny, you don't know how much I like hearing that you are confused.  You cited all of the things that were running through my mind and I figure if you are confused about it then I needn't feel so bad.

[nascarxx29]

While looking up on 434780 .I had this 2 page WW newsletter submitted daytona vin list by GG as of 11-89 .It has 468330 and 500564 as recorded daytonas.Also a friend of mine currently has one of the daytonas owned by a chrysler exec.It is a very well optioned out car.To believe it I had to get a copy of its buildsheet from him.Im also still looking for further info on the 287 daytona

Dave,

I did some more thinking about those very-high VIN's you pointed out.  The most logical explanation for 500564 is that it was misread and/or misreported by someone.  There is already a XX29L9B400564, #479 on the Shipping List.  It would not be a hard thing at all for the first digit of the Sequential Production Number to be off.  400564 was already on the list from before, so it is/was a known car.  Someone probably saw the car at a show and just wrote down or remembered the VIN as 500564.  That's





my best guess.  Maybe Chris or someone else can tell us if there were Hamtramck cars into the 500xxx's, but it always seemed really high to me.

I don't know about 468330 though.  Nothing jumps out at me as being a transcription error.  Strangely enough, I do not have a single Daytona in my spreadsheet with the number 3 in the fourth digit spot (xxx3xx)  ---  not a single car...

I dont now if these 2 cars exists but therev are the 2 highest numbers to last

[nascarxx29]

Okay now I'm totally confused. I was under the impression that the HEMI 500 that was stolen out of California and that eventually went to Cotton Owens (missing engine and trans if I remember correctly) and then was later loaned to Creative to use for Daytona mock ups was then sent back to Cotton who sold it to a gentleman locally. Who by my information still owns the car. It is a R4 red, black interior (cloth insert seats), power windows, car with a white tail stripe. Identical to the 110610 car as far as options are concerened. If I can find the magazine article that shows the car I would scan it in, but I'm pretty sure it was in the MCG.


Okay found the article but not sure about scanning it as it mention the owners name and I don't feel confortable mentioning it as I don't know the person personally. If you do a simple search on Ebay for Cotton's Charger 500 there are plenty of ads for the article for sale.

We do know the Cotton Owens retrieved 500 and Repurposed for daytona parts was a red car.And knowing the # 88 car shows to be originally blue.The real #88 chassis still has evidence of some factory blue paint down on the rocker panels.  This supports the idea that it started out as a street body, painted metallic blue." ..And what are the chances of 2 stolen cars both found in CA and repurposed .Is what the blue car now the #88 was previously is hard to pin down.Nichels took that secret with him I guess

[nascarxx29]

Did find the Cotton Owens 500 story check out page 3
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/mopp_0405_1969_dodge_charger/index.html

Those were just the changes made during the Charger's first trip to Creative Industries. Remember, after it was stolen and stripped of its engine and transmission, it eventually found its way back to the Detroit shop to be fitted with a prototype Daytona nose for wind tunnel testing. To get the new sheetmetal to fit,

It doesnt say it went to Nichels .It went to Detroit.Also doesnt say it was found it Watts Calif  stripped and sitting on milk crates .As the story associated with the #88 cars origins.And this car isnt blue

[Ghoste]

Nichels took that secret with him I guess

I'm thinking Cotton probably took a lot of secrets with him. 

[69_500]

Did find the Cotton Owens 500 story check out page 3
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/mopp_0405_1969_dodge_charger/index.html

Those were just the changes made during the Charger's first trip to Creative Industries. Remember, after it was stolen and stripped of its engine and transmission, it eventually found its way back to the Detroit shop to be fitted with a prototype Daytona nose for wind tunnel testing. To get the new sheetmetal to fit,

It doesnt say it went to Nichels .It went to Detroit.Also doesnt say it was found it Watts Calif  stripped and sitting on milk crates .As the story associated with the #88 cars origins.And this car isnt blue

That is the car I was thinking of and its the only one I have linked in my list as being tied to Cotton Owens. And its also the only one I have as being stolen early in California and its definitely not a blue car.

[nascarxx29]

[XS29J8]

What publication is this Dave? Is this a press release Charger 500? Any chance of having pics from the Magazine that lost it? Is the VIN available? Could it be 4347xx? I remember hearing that the reason they repainted the Jerry Service 500 orange or red, was because it didn't photograph as well in Burgundy and they had lost the "Show Car"

Also Dave, Did you take the pics of the white Charger 500 in the 68 Charger HEMI 4spd Post and do you have the VIN? Was it as HEMIDOUG Said, all 68 except the tailpanel?

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65345.20.html

More questions than answers again..........


Steve

[nascarxx29]

This might help with the white 69 500 in link bellow   .I think I have somehere more info it was at one time on ebay .I might have printed the auction out before it ended .Im not sure what magazine lost the car.I wonder if it went thru all channels of being a stolen car back in the day .That it might be onfile in CA DMV if they have a accesable archive section .It would have the vin and a police report collaberating the stolen and stripped story.The other thing is to find out what magazine it was loaned to and lost it.And see if they have any pictures .Tom M was a old friend .I met at shows he had several 69 charger 500s .When I had wingcars.I remember buying parts from a 69 500 he parted out.I got the trunk lid and hinges for a few hundred.And later Ted Janak got these parts off me
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60667.0.html

[XS29J8]

This might help with the white 69 500 in link bellow   .I think I have somehere more info it was at one time on ebay .I might have printed the auction out before it ended .Im not sure what magazine lost the car.I wonder if it went thru all channels of being a stolen car back in the day .That it might be onfile in CA DMV if they have a accesable archive section .It would have the vin and a police report collaberating the stolen and stripped story.The other thing is to find out what magazine it was loaned to and lost it.And see if they have any pictures .Tom M was a old friend .I met at shows he had several 69 charger 500s .When I had wingcars.I remember buying parts from a 69 500 he parted out.I got the trunk lid and hinges for a few hundred.And later Ted Janak got these parts off me
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60667.0.html

Wonder if he kept records of VIN and other docs?? Wonder if he knows what happened to my buds 69 #144166 500?


Steve