Which is better for body work?

[SmashingPunkFan]

Whats a good welder for body work? brand?, mig?, tig?, flux?


Thanks for the help

[NHCharger]

I have a Hobart mig which does a nice job.

[SmashingPunkFan]

I have a Hobart mig which does a nice job.

ok, awesome. what kinda volts/amps would you recomend?

[b5blue]

  Eastwood has a "MIG 130" that uses 110 V you could look into also. A larger unit is not really needed as sheet metal is so thin. (That's the one I want to get for my car repairs.) Most here have told me you need the MIG as the gas really aids the quality of the welding. 

[NHCharger]

This is the model I have. Miller and Lincoln also make some nice welders.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306073_200306073?cm_mmc=Google-pe-_-Welding-_-Wirefeed%20Welders-_-1646140&ci_sku=1646140&ci_gpa=pe&ci_kw=hobart%20welders

[Patronus]

Nowadays you can get a welder AND a plasma cutter for the price of what a welder was... 
Another vote for Miller...

[redgum78]

Mig is a good all rounder. You can weld thin sheet metal with minimal distortion once you get good at it. Don't use the gasless wire get a good migshield gas (get the lowest temp one available to reduce distortion as much as possible). The only downside with the mig is the weld is hard and will crack if you try to beat it or bend it to much.

Wire welding with a torch will give you a nice soft weld that you can beat out flat with a hammer and dolly but it is very very hard to wire weld without major panel distortion due to the heat from the torch.

Tig has the benefits of the soft weld without the distortion but is much slower than a mig, harder to learn more expensive to run.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Cool, cool. Thank you so. much for the feedback! So mig is gonna be better in general. I think I'd start out with a mig, but will it be versatile enough to do 1/4 s? and floorpans?

[Calif240]

I just finished all of my body work using a Hobart 140. I did quarters, floorpans, trunk floors, deck filler. It was my first welding experience. It had more than enough power and controlled the arc extremely well. Everything looks really good now after the panels were prepped and painted. Be sure to use shielding gas and if it's your first time, practice on some spare sheet metal, or start with the seams that can be easily ground and not seen.

Terry

[NHCharger]

but will it be versatile enough to do 1/4 s? and floorpans?

Yeah, no problem, they're both about the same gauge sheetmetal. Mine will weld up to 1/4" steel. Stay away from the cheapies they sell at Harbour Freight. It ain't worth the hundred bucks you will save.

[redgum78]

Mig is fine for both quarters and floor pan.

Floor pans are a great place to start as they have lots of "shape" in them. Because of the shape you can put more heat into a certain area before the metal distorts too much. Also been a floor pan it doesn't have to be perfect so a great place to practice once you have moved on from practicing with scrap sheet on the bench.

Always (whenever possible) butt weld rather than lap weld sheet metal. I know it takes a lot longer to get the sheet metal cut to the perfect size but it will be stronger and will go un noticed once finished. Lap type patches even on floor pans look bad, are not as strong and also leave a nasty little overlap of metal for moisture to start rusting out again.

Don't tackle the quarters until you have had a fair bit of practice on other things like the floor pan. Because they are long fairly flat compared to say a floor pan it will distort much easier and it is also one of the most noticeable areas on the car.
Start buy trimming the panel to size......spend lots of time making sure it is right.
Then tack it in place with about 3 or 4 tack welds checking each time that it is all lined up correctly. Use hands (other peoples), clamps, magnets, vice grips or what ever to hold it in place while doing the 1st few tacks and keep checking that it is right. Once your are 100% happy proceed to continue tacking the quarter skin, patch or panel in place but make each tack you do opposite the preceding one so you don't get too much heat in one area. You may have to stop from time to time and let it cool off. You want wait long enough to keep the panel cool enough be able to hold bare skin on. I know this takes time but less heat is the key here. Continue opposite tacking until you have the panel, skin or patch stitch welded all the way around with tack welds about half to three quarters of an inch apart. Now join all the dots (tacks) up. Again working on different parts of the panel to reduce heat in any one are and waiting for it to cool down in between welds. Even grinding the welds back you can put enough heat into it to distort a quarter so be carefull here.
One last thing to mention is if your are patching try and make your joins next to a flange or fold or body line crease. Not right on it but about half an inch away from it as it will help to maintain the strength in the original panel while you weld in the patch.

Hope this helps.





Dan

[Dino]

Not much to ad here, it's all been said. 

There's an easy way to find out exactly how fast the metal would warp.  Take a flat scrap piece and make sure it is down to bare metal, nice and clean.  Lay it down so the light is reflected in the piece and you can see every ding and wave in the panel.  Get your welder ready and put down a continous bead while watching the reflection in the metal.  I think you'll be surprised how fast it'll warp.  Now you know the limitations of a piece of fairly flat metal.  You can do the same with a pice of metal that is not flat, as it will not warp as fast.  You may have a nice piece left after you fit your floor pan so that would be an ideal piece to practice on.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Ok, thanks for all the help guys... my car would have no chance without this website, and the peeps on it. lol

[SmashingPunkFan]

Now hobart 140. Do you think that is a mininum? whats the smallest you think I can get away with?

[Calif240]

I never went above "2" on the Hobart power settings. It goes to "4". You could probably use a smaller one and be fine. However, if you ever need to go any thicker for anything else then you may get into trouble. I had no issues with the 140 and had power to spare. Setting 1 is good for thinner body panels and light patching. 2 was best for floor pans and thick sheet metal. 3 would be for frame and really thick welds. 4 is gonna blow through body panels and floors. 4 might work on the thicker portions of the frame. Hope this helps.
Terry

[SmashingPunkFan]

I never went above "2" on the Hobart power settings. It goes to "4". You could probably use a smaller one and be fine. However, if you ever need to go any thicker for anything else then you may get into trouble. I had no issues with the 140 and had power to spare. Setting 1 is good for thinner body panels and light patching. 2 was best for floor pans and thick sheet metal. 3 would be for frame and really thick welds. 4 is gonna blow through body panels and floors. 4 might work on the thicker portions of the frame. Hope this helps.
Terry

well, that sounds like that will probably be the best for me, because I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to replace the passenger side front frame rail. Any suggestion on how to take that on? .Thank you for the help guys!

[sanders7981]

  Eastwood has a "MIG 130" that uses 110 V you could look into also. A larger unit is not really needed as sheet metal is so thin. (That's the one I want to get for my car repairs.) Most here have told me you need the MIG as the gas really aids the quality of the welding. 

+1... I have this one as a DIY'er and it works with and without gas, also value priced for DIYer's.  Popular Mechanics did an article on MIGs and Eastwoods came out on either on top or in second place.  Miller, what I learned to weld with, is probably the industry standard... but it's also more expensive. 

[SmashingPunkFan]

Awesome. I think ima go with a hobart when I can get a  deal on one

[SmashingPunkFan]

well, that sounds like that will probably be the best for me, because I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to replace the passenger side front frame rail. Any suggestion on how to take that on? .Thank you for the help guys!

Any suggestions will help, or patch... how should I block the car up so its level and whatnot

[Dino]

well, that sounds like that will probably be the best for me, because I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to replace the passenger side front frame rail. Any suggestion on how to take that on? .Thank you for the help guys!

Any suggestions will help, or patch... how should I block the car up so its level and whatnot

Can you post a few pics of the damage?  It'll make it easier to explain how to proceed.

[SmashingPunkFan]

its the front side of where the k member attaches. passenger side

[SmashingPunkFan]

My bad. its actually the rear half of the k frame

[Dino]

That's all the damage?  I think you can save your money and time.  Unless there's a ton of rust I cannot see, the only issue is the tear in the rail.  Looks like the K frame was pushed back.  Remove the K frame and straighten that tear, then simply weld it shut. 
Any idea what happened to it?  Was it in a crash or did it go over a high treshhold or something?  I'd want to make sure the frame is straight.

First thing I would do is unbolt everything from the rail and clean it up to see what else is going on.  Take some measurements as well to be sure all is straight and level.

[Rolling_Thunder]

looks like it hit something hard on the lower control arm bending the K member up and tearing the frame rail - also notice the bent strut bar...       not a big deal IMO

I have an older Hobart 135 - basically the Hobart 140 of a couple years ago - no major difference - I have done just about everything with it - frame welding, fabrication, sheet metal work, etc - 

I am saving for a TIG so I can start doing aluminum but that's a ways off 

[SmashingPunkFan]

A wreck I was told. On the drivers side, that fender was replaced.