Got my new headers from TTI (pics)...

[terrible one]

mine required beating one tube in about 1/4" for a length of around 4" to clear the starter, but that was all

Did you use a mini starter also?

Yes. Probably would have stood little chance with the stock starter! 

[Dino]

So funny cause I poured over previous threads regarding headers...even started my own (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86826.msg978921.html#msg978921). The majority of people kept saying "go with TTIs...more expensive but they fit great. Even hedmann people were saying my Hedmanns suck and here are pics of what I had to do to get them to fit.

Now everyone seems to be pointing to Hedmanns or other cheaper alternatives. I originally wanted to go with Hedmanns but so many people said they were terrible and so many people said TTIs were great, so I sucked it up and paid out the arsehole for TTIs (which I thought was outlandish..but everyone said you pay for what you get).

Now everyone is saying they are too expensive and not worth it.  

Wish I would have had these responses 3 weeks ago ...I would have gone with Hedmanns but so many people swore up and down that they never fit properly....now all I see is the opposite.  

I think most people will still say to go with TTI's, but for what you paid they should be flawless and fit like a glove.  Personally I would not accept a piece with dents like that. 

[Musicman]

So funny cause I poured over previous threads regarding headers...even started my own (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86826.msg978921.html#msg978921). The majority of people kept saying "go with TTIs...more expensive but they fit great. Even hedman people were saying my Hedman's suck and here are pics of what I had to do to get them to fit.

Now everyone seems to be pointing to Hedman's or other cheaper alternatives. I originally wanted to go with Hedman's but so many people said they were terrible and so many people said TTIs were great, so I sucked it up and paid out the arsehole for TTIs (which I thought was outlandish..but everyone said you pay for what you get).

Now everyone is saying they are too expensive and not worth it. 

Wish I would have had these responses 3 weeks ago ...I would have gone with Hedman's but so many people swore up and down that they never fit properly....now all I see is the opposite.   

I would contact TTI before you did else anything here... Hedman guarantees the fit and quality of their product (unless your one of those !@#$% that takes a ball peen to them first before calling), so I would assume that TTI must have a similar policy. TTI's have proven themselves to be a quality product over the years, as has the Hedman's, the Doug's and few others. Most of these guys will stand behind their products. If you have an issue, you can talk about it here, but call them and try to resolve it before you do anything else.

I could have been more assertive in your original post, but when your the odd man out it hardly seems woth it... no one is going to listen.

[tubedriver]

My TTI's fit fine. Had to shim the engine on 1 side, fitment is snug but adequate. No 'dings' on the pictured engine with the straight plug heads. They are different for the angle plug heads. TTI has done their homework and offer different headers for Indy heads, stock type heads, B,RB, big tube, small tube, many different combinations, and they address each one of them differently, definitely NOT a one size fits all big blocks.

[Surf Charger]

Took a few detailed pics of the "dents" ....purposely placed there for spark plug clearance i'm guessing. My question is.....will this cause flow/HP loss. I guess what i'm saying is I can send them back..but I dont' want them to send me another set with the exact same "dents". Can you opt out of the dents?

[tommymac]

My Dougs Headers ,Ceramic coated Fit like a glove on a 383 W/ministarter,no dents on Driv side,and only sm dent on pass side. Finish has held up awesome.550.00

[terrible one]

Took a few detailed pics of the "dents" ....purposely placed there for spark plug clearance i'm guessing. My question is.....will this cause flow/HP loss. I guess what i'm saying is I can send them back..but I dont' want them to send me another set with the exact same "dents". Can you opt out of the dents?

I don't know enough to tell you for sure, but I would think that depending on your build, you would probably not notice much loss of power. I would first call TTI and ask about the dents. If they can exchange them for a non-dented set, then there you go. If that's just how they come, you will have to decide what to do depending on how much it bugs you, how much it actually affects performance, the hassle of sending them back and ordering a different set, etc.

[firefighter3931]

I wouldn't worry about the dents. My 2in TTI headers have the same indentations and the engine made excellent power when we had it on the dyno. Those dents are placed there for stock heads with straight plugs....to provide adequate plug clearance and prevent burnt boots.

It's important to remember that exhaust flow is not continuous but rather "timed pulses" so a restriction is not critical. If there was a continuous flow of air through that restricted pipe then there would be a loss of power but that's not how an engine works. Every cylinder fires independantly and at different intervals.   

Bottom line ; if they were mine i'd just use them and go   


Ron

[472 R/T SE]

I'm sure they'll exchange them for you but you'll have to eat the shipping.  And with headers that can't be cheap.  They'll claim the only thing wrong with them is the fact you didn't like the appearance.  Who knows, they very well could all be dimpled like that & the only thing you can do is ask for your money back?  
Then there's the group that's pissed that they wouldn't fit unless the tubes were dimpled & for $1k large they should come dimpled & ready to install.  Can't make everybody happy.

With this last pair of tti's I had a tube real close @ the power steering in a couple spots, but no where else.  Around the spark plugs was a crazy amount of room.  

[Musicman]

These are the 2 closest plugs on mine (same plug opposite sides of the block)... 440 Source heads, 1-3/4 Hedmans, 10.4mm Thundervolt 50 Ropes... I can think of no other plug wire with a heat insulating boot head larger than these, and I still have room. Best I can figure is that TTI is possibly denting them to help resolve cross platform issues or simply to ensure that there will be no interference issues.  One phone call is all it takes to answer the question however. I know many manufactures are sloppy in this area and do create issues with plug wires melting in the tight spots, but TTI is an industry leader here, so there must be some valid reason for it. 

[Musicman]

One difference I do see with my Hedman's however... the center pipes on "my" Hedmans are bent so close together they are almost touching, which does help to promote better plug clearance. Of course, mine could be the only ones like this too, who knows, I can't speak for everyone.

[tubedriver]

One difference I do see with my Hedman's however... the center pipes on "my" Hedmans are bent so close together they are almost touching, which does help to promote better plug clearance. Of course, mine could be the only ones like this too, who knows, I can't speak for everyone.

Looks like the same scorch pattern from my headers when started too lean on idle.......mine were glowing hot for a bit.

[Bobs69]

As always thanks for posting pictures boys.  They are invaluable.  Is that the right word?

As for dents and dings in the headers.  I know little about that, I've been told NASCAR cars have that done to them.  So I've been told.

[Surf Charger]

Definitly thank you to all for posting up example pictures. I guess the conclusion I have come to that that with any set of headers...no matter what make...you should expect them to not fit perfectly. I'm guessing TTI adds those indentations to make sure they have no issues of someone complaing that the plug wire boot is too close. At this point, I just want my car running. I'm so tired of sending stuff back. Thanks for everyone's input! 

[rt green]

is it possible that they made up the flow that is restricted on the pipe somewhere else on that tube? made It a bit longer?

[greenpigs]

I wouldn't worry about the dents.

Bottom line ; if they were mine i'd just use them and go   


Ron

If Ron says its not a problem I would just bolt them on and move to the next project.

[404NOTFOUND]

Dents or no dents, you will make great performance gains over manifolds so, your still ahead. Other mods can only make it better. I say bolt em on and enjoy the new power.

[Musicman]

Looks like the same scorch pattern from my headers when started too lean on idle.......mine were glowing hot for a bit.

Worse... those discolorations are from running them on the engine during the initial engine breakin and dyno testing (Big No No). I could have used a different set of hedders for this, but my plan was to refinish these hedders from the get-go anyway so why not. I bought these hedders for their physical characteristics, not the fancy finish.

[472 R/T SE]

Looks like the same scorch pattern from my headers when started too lean on idle.......mine were glowing hot for a bit.

Worse... those discolorations are from running them on the engine during the initial engine breakin and dyno testing (Big No No). I could have used a different set of hedders for this, but my plan was to refinish these hedders from the get-go anyway so why not. I bought these hedders for their physical characteristics, not the fancy finish.

Yeah, we distorted the shine right off the bat, they were glowing.  That way I didn't have to worry about them shining anymore. 

Not like it matters, can't see them anyways.  Also one of the reasons I went chrome instead of ceramic.

[firefighter3931]

One difference I do see with my Hedman's however... the center pipes on "my" Hedmans are bent so close together they are almost touching, which does help to promote better plug clearance. Of course, mine could be the only ones like this too, who knows, I can't speak for everyone.

Mike,

The only thing saving your plug boots with the header tube that close to the plug is your ceramic coating. 

From personal experience, uncoated headers that close to a plug boot will cause problems 


Ron

[greenpigs]

What about using the high temp wrap or at least a sock over the wire?

I got some socks but they are cheap and would burn up...Accel only rated to 1100 Deg if I remember right.

[Musicman]

Mike,

The only thing saving your plug boots with the header tube that close to the plug is your ceramic coating. 

I don't know Ron, I've been running the Spiro's on the 383 for several years now with no damage 
Granted, I've melted more then a few standard boots in the past, Autolites etc... but I've had pretty good luck with the Taylor's so far.
Just lucky I guess...

[model maker]

Surf Charger, I would call & ask WHY the big dent is in the tube, who knows, maybe SOMEONE ELSE BANGED IT IN AND RETURNED THEM & they then sold them to you ! They may say YOU did it & that they would never sell a set looking like that. Document, document, document with pictures. You don't want someone elses returns that THEY banged the crap out of to try to fit them.

[Bobs69]

What about using the high temp wrap or at least a sock over the wire?

I got some socks but they are cheap and would burn up...Accel only rated to 1100 Deg if I remember right.

I used the high temp wrap this summer.  I haven't used the car enough to give a good report on it yet.  I used an old set of headers and had a friend take the torch to them and peen and massage them so mounting them would be easier and more room for plug boots.  I did this after talking to TTI myself and decided that under the hood of my car isn't nice enough for those yet, and after them telling me you need to run old headers if you break in a new cam or a hole new engine.  Because it runs hot and will discolour the finish.

[model maker]

All bends should be mandrel bent for smooth uninterupped flow.