Another General Lee (nice one)

[SuperJim]

I know I know, how many General Lee 1:18 scale cars can be made. BUT there is finally one coming that's a ton more accurate, as they have a "car guy" involved in the project this time. For those who collect them, here's the list of changes/corrections to be done for these.

1. Improved placement and look of roof graphics.
2. Improved placement and look of door graphics.
3. Improved finish applied to Vector wheels.
4. Removed Charger" & "R/T emblems in grille.
5. Removed R/T emblem from taillight panel.
6. Removed Charger emblem from c-pillars.
7. Removed front and rear side marker lights.
8. Removed chrome wheel opening moldings.
9. Removed headrests.
10. Removed spare tire and jack.
11. Removed cruise control equipment under the hood.
12. 383 engine (not 426 or 440 as in past releases.
13. Removed padding/insulation detail from underside of hood.
14. Longer antenna made of a thinner material to better replicate the "whip" antenna.
15. Added primer to chassis with gloss black overspray. Idea is to hint at the General Lee's origins as a black 1969 Dodge Charger as seen in the Dukes of Hazzard "Happy Birthday General Lee" episode.



If you do have any interest in possibly getting one of these, here is a link to our site with the full information.
Thanks for the read.
http://www.supercar1.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=hazzard+2012

[JT01]

Still needs some work needs wide pushbar thats the same time the sidemarkers and reverse lights got removed for good. The 01 needs a little work rollbar needs work. Need to put the vinyl top trim on it also.

[MoparManJim]

Isn't that this one or was this one http://www.cglfc.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28370 ?

[SuperJim]

The side marker lights have been removed, as they were just painted on anyway for the 68-69-70 cars previously made.

The vinyl top moldings will likely not happen, as on the cars they have made with vinyl tops simply had silver painted moldings, and many didn't care for them. To make some actual moldings the put on the car - tooling would cost too much to do them for just 1,000 cars or however many will be made. It's not a huge market anymore like 15-20 years ago. Same goes for pushbar and roll bar. Not enough cars being made to cover the cost of new tooling it would take.

Yet 16 improvements to the car is not shabby....

[Mikesmoparperformance]

Still needs work Improved placement and look of door graphics Looks why off! Which person make those cars??? If the grashics don't look right to me the car is not good.And i like it with headrests better then with out. I needs more work for me

[MoparManJim]

Notice how they remove the very easy easy stuff, but yet left the hard stuff alone? trying to improve it? maybe, but the key parts that people looks at is the push bar & roll an graphic's. These are the things on this diecast that needs the improving. 

[kikgas01]

The wheels are a HUGE improvement. Wish it had the correct rollbar, pushbar, sail panel trim and better graphics.

[MoparManJim]

The wheels are a HUGE improvement. Wish it had the correct rollbar, pushbar, sail panel trim and better graphics.

[SuperJim]

I've passed on the comments to a collector/customer that is helping AW with the project. I'm sure he can clear some things up.

[jwramc]

Thank you, Jim. That would be me!  

Guys,

I'm new here, but have been doing the diecast car collecting thing for over 40 years, and most recently was given the opportunity to work with AW's development team on the upcoming Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry Charger... because I've been religiously addicted to that film since seeing it in the theater in 1974 as a double-feature with the original version (the watchable version) of Vanishing Point, and have analyzed every frame of the film repeatedly to document every feature of the three Chargers used in the film. (FULL DISCLOSURE: My participation on that project is unpaid. I'm not beholden to them, nor they to me. I'm there to help get that car right because *I* want one...or a dozen...and I *know* there will be compromises...that's the business end of things. But be aware- it's going to be stunning...including some new tooling to benefit other releases.)

That said, I also have discussed (but am not officially assisting on) the upcoming General Lee's changes with the team and can tell you there are at least 3 guys on the team that love cars in general, and TV/Film cars specifically. The bean-counters are outnumbered at the moment, yet even they are not dismissing corrections out of hand just to 'save a buck'...but the market being a shell of what it once was, tooling costs must be spent very carefully to get the most for such big investments.

I'll take your criticisms as made above and try to address each specifically, but first I must clarify a big misconception- the photo Jim posted at the start of this thread is **NOT** the upcoming AW release. It is a photo of RC2's previous Authentics General Lee of 2005. In fact, it's *MY* copy of that model that I personally made attempts to correct (within the limits of my talents) back in 2009...and THEN, the photo has been edited by me this month to 'suggest' the improvements AW is making. This picture was merely a placeholder for Jim and other sellers to use to give a "general" impression of what was coming. It should NOT be used as a basis to criticize specifics of the upcoming release.

OK- point-by-point:

"Still needs some work. Needs wide pushbar. That's the same time the sidemarkers and reverse lights got removed for good."

The intent of this release is to better mimic the cars of the earlier production days, not the later cars, so the wider pushbar was a tooling expense not really required for it.
The sidemarkers suffered from continuity issues on the show, for sure, but the bulk of the time, the General was without them. Seeing side-markers was a mistake on the show, and the model is representing the 'illusion'- the General that the Duke family owned (not one of the disposable stand-in cars used by a TV show crew)...the fantasy, not the reality.

"The 01 needs a little work"

A feature that will likely never get 100% agreement because it changed from car to car, episode to episode as well. That said, the new graphics will be a major improvement over ALL releases done by ALL makers in the past. Now, this and the roof graphics are also casualties of translation. The main trouble is that no matter how well the graphics are laid out here in the US, when those files arrive at the factory in China, folks there start 'adjusting' things without consulting anyone. They'll send a sample car back to the US and it will have 90% of the wanted changes done correctly, and 10% will be wildly mis-translated. Then the issue becomes...does AW ask them to fix that 10%...and risk somebody there RE-translating some of the other 90% so that the production run of 750 cars arrive with an even more glaring mistake? It's truly a maddening state of affairs, but with the market as it is, the factory holds all the cards. If this were Ertl's heydey, 3000 piece runs of car after car after car...our side would have the leverage to lean on factories more. Today, margins are thin, quantities low and the factories figure they can just as easily make Justin Bieber hats and do better for it.

So hard as AW will try on this end, they are at the mercy sometimes of a non-car guy at the factory that simply doesn't give a darn. But again, there's been no better Lee released than this one. And considering how well the previous RC2 car sold, with all the mistakes AW is now correcting, it's amazing AW bothered to correct anything. They'd have sold just fine without the fixes...and they are a business, first and foremost.

"rollbar needs work."

It was begged for, but the tooling money just isn't there.

"Need to put the vinyl top trim on it also."

A three-way problem. First, when the vinyl tops get put on the normal Charger releases, the "chrome trim" ends up a silver painted line that is somehow incorrectly located and curved (factory just doesn't see the difference). Tooling a separate chrome trim piece would render either a far-too-thick piece or a too-fragile-to-survive-handling piece...and again, that's more tooling costs. The final solution that was pushed HARD for: foil. This too was rejected as the factory didn't want to do it (and would likely mis-locate it anyway). In the end, it was decided to let the buyer foil it themselves if they wished.

(Continued next post...)

[jwramc]

"Still needs work. Improved placement and look of door graphics? Looks way off! Which person make those cars??? If the graphics don't look right to me the car is not good."

Again, graphics were inconsistent on the show, so there's no chance ANY version of the graphics will please everyone. However, this new version beats every release done so far...by a long shot.

"And I like it with headrests better than without."

This change was repeatedly requested because the majority of the time on the show, the car had no headrests. Leaving them in again for this release would have been a decision blasted even more than taking them off. And just so ya know- AW didn't just 'cut off' the headrests from the seats. It's a seat molded without headrests, thus- new parts.

"Notice how they remove the very easy easy stuff, but yet left the hard stuff alone? Trying to improve it? Maybe, but the key parts that people look at is the push bar, roll bar and graphic's. These are the things on this diecast that need the improving."

Actually, you, me and a few dozen others are looking at those details (and we STILL buy the car anyway more often than not) while 99% of the buyers just want (and have bought over and over) an orange car with a flag on the roof (remember AMT's 1/25 scale model kit that used a Charger 500 body??). The bulk just aren't looking that hard, and rest assured, they're gonna sell no matter what. So from the standpoint of the bean-counters, they'd have been just as happy releasing the car exactly as RC2 did. I bought one (and made the corrections I could myself). That AW went to the effort to correct over a dozen errors for this release, to me, shows their intentions were remarkably generous. And they wanted to do more, but time and money always mitigate. You'd be blown away at the list of changes originally asked for, and I'm blown away by how many got approved.

"The wheels are a HUGE improvement. Wish it had the correct rollbar, pushbar, sail panel trim and better graphics."

The pic above is, again, not the new release, so the wheels are the same RC2 release with the caps painted black by me. The new release will have that correction AND they won't be chromed. They'll have a polished-alloy finish this time. The push & roll bars, and C-pillar trim are discussed above. See the photos (of the latest sample received from the factory) to see the new graphics (which are as close as AW could get the factory to do them) at the following link:

http://www.diecast-pub.com/forums2/index.php?showtopic=51415&st=0&p=412274&#entry412274

In the end, I'm surely buying the new release myself because it's far closer to correct than any before it. *MY* copy will STILL get some mods (like the foil trim, and an engine swap with the previous release cuz my 'illusion' of the General demands a 440). Provided the color is a close-match to the RC2 version, the trunklids will swap, too, because John Schneider signed my RC2 car there.

Anyway- I know that sounds like I'm being an apologist for those "clueless accountants at Autoworld". But I felt it needed to be said that AW heard the fans and has done all they could within what is possible, today, for the price. I'd love a 100% dead-correct release, too...but then there's no one way to do it that everyone would agree was correct- of that, I'm certain. They built over 300 Generals for the show..and everyone picks a different one to claim is "the" real General. For me, that car is LEE1 as it appeared in the pilot. Everything else is a poor copy. 'Til LEE1 is tooled up for, I will never have a truly accurate, 'real' General Lee. Your mileage may vary.  

(And Larry's whip will always outshine it in my mind anyway...so THERE!) LOL.  

"All you gotta be is willing to take it to the max!"

If you still have questions after seeing the pics and reading this note, I'm happy to try and get the answers. Just fire back with them.

John

[nvrbdn]

ok, i want the dmcl car. whens it coming out and will there be a preorder for it?

[jwramc]

Well, yeah! Who ISN'T buying that one???  

She's expected in December. Jim's got her listed for pre-orders at http://www.supercar1.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5951

[nvrbdn]

thanks. i will be on that one

[MoparManJim]

You want to cry about factory stuff, but yet look at what you try to push out to your buyers though. The door graphics is an easy fix just like the roof stuff is. You guys shaved the marker lights right? well they are the same thing as the graphics is aren't they? You said it yourself they was just painted on stuff. Easy stuff to remove an fix. The roll bar is the other eye catching thing yet you all fail to fix that issue. I think what you guys are trying to do is just make a quick buck kinda. The door graphics didn't change all that much back in the day either. At least get the dang door graphic's correct to what the real cars ones looked like.   

[Troy]

You want to cry about factory stuff, but yet look at what you try to push out to your buyers though. The door graphics is an easy fix just like the roof stuff is. You guys shaved the marker lights right? well they are the same thing as the graphics is aren't they? You said it yourself they was just painted on stuff. Easy stuff to remove an fix. The roll bar is the other eye catching thing yet you all fail to fix that issue. I think what you guys are trying to do is just make a quick buck kinda. The door graphics didn't change all that much back in the day either. At least get the dang door graphic's correct to what the real cars ones looked like.   

Did you read anything he wrote? Just curious as I found the explanations for everything you mentioned - on my first pass before I even saw your response.

Troy

[nvrbdn]

 

[jwramc]

Thanks, Troy.



MMJim,

Actually, I didn't cry about anything. And as I don't work for AW, I'm not "pushing" anything on you. I get nothing whether you buy one or not.
I also never said anything remotely like your "You said it yourself they was just painted on stuff."

I explained very plainly why, no matter what AW does correctly on the US end, the Chinese factories will still alter it, and there's nothing to do about it. The door graphics are a perfect example, and they are exactly as NOT easy to fix as the roof for the reasons I explained.

On top of that, they certainly changed enough season to season that if you personally gave me a photo of the door graphics you consider 100% correct, I could find a dozen examples in the show where the cars didn't match it. There's simply no way to please everyone. Consider this. The General Lee has been done in 1:18 diecast about, what, seven times now? If it's so 'easy' to get right, why has EVERY manufacturer gotten it wrong? Of all those releases, which one do you find the MOST accurate? Say any but this new one, and we'll both know that isn't true.

As for the roll bar, I explained why that couldn't be fixed- it requires new molds being created- a very expensive job, and for a single release car of 750 pieces, there's no way to do it.

And your theory of a 'quick buck'- AW could make that while fixing nothing at all, so there goes that idea. With everything RC2 did wrong 7 years ago, they still sold out, and folks that complained and held back....they are paying $250+ for one of them today- if they can find one.

Lastly, what you think is an easy fix gets quite complicated when you actually try to do it- think about it. How good is YOUR Chinese? Mine is terrible, so *I* can't explain things to the factory any better than AW does.

It's your $70 in the end. Buy one or don't. Maybe wait another 7 years and see if it's released again and gets all those fixes. By then, these new ones will be getting upwards of $300 on eBay, I'm betting.

Just one person's view of the matter.

John

[Back N Black]

You want to cry about factory stuff, but yet look at what you try to push out to your buyers though. The door graphics is an easy fix just like the roof stuff is. You guys shaved the marker lights right? well they are the same thing as the graphics is aren't they? You said it yourself they was just painted on stuff. Easy stuff to remove an fix. The roll bar is the other eye catching thing yet you all fail to fix that issue. I think what you guys are trying to do is just make a quick buck kinda. The door graphics didn't change all that much back in the day either. At least get the dang door graphic's correct to what the real cars ones looked like.   

[kikgas01]

When they shaved the side markers is when they went to the wide pushbar and W/B tan interior for continuity. Nice car. I will probably be getting one but will leave it as is. I will be getting a DMCL car FOR SURE. CAN`T WAIT for that!

[Darkman]

All said and done, there aren't too many places that have these available.

I'm thankful that they have a couple of 68's that I have my eye on and will oder in the coming weeks!

[jwramc]

When they shaved the side markers is when they went to the wide pushbar and W/B tan interior for continuity. Nice car. I will probably be getting one but will leave it as is. I will be getting a DMCL car FOR SURE. CAN`T WAIT for that!

You and me both, brother. I promise I'm fighting for every accurate detail I can get stuffed into it. I know I won't get it all, but I packed the list to assure we'd get the most important stuff while 'giving in' on the most minor ones. I won't specify any of them 'til we see a factory sample with the changes (only then can I be certain the final product will have them).
Incredible it took almost 40 years for somebody to finally offer us a diecast of this car! I mean, even the NCIS Challenger is getting done now! Larry & Deke get no respect!

Veering further off topic, here's a video for the movie I did a while back, in the style of modern movie trailers. It's a bit rough, but still fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZDRan97GUM

All said and done, there aren't too many places that have these available.

I'm thankful that they have a couple of 68's that I have my eye on and will oder in the coming weeks!

Another good source still surviving is http://www.diecastmusclecars.com, and the owner, Todd, is good people (and his personal GSX proves he's a motorhead). He also does pre-orders and often free shipping, as Supercars does. When I can't find something at one, the other usually has it.  

[JT01]

You said seeing the side markers was a mistake well no it wasnt like I said before they got removed for good same time wide push bar was put on ,on the early episodes if you seen one without side markers was because it was a 68 converted to a 69 sometimes they filled them and sometimes they painted over the round 68 markers so early cars should have them if your making a early episode diecast.

[jwramc]

You said seeing the side markers was a mistake well no it wasnt like I said before they got removed for good same time wide push bar was put on ,on the early episodes if you seen one without side markers was because it was a 68 converted to a 69 sometimes they filled them and sometimes they painted over the round 68 markers so early cars should have them if your making a early episode diecast.

I'll take your word for it, as I myself am not a Dukes religious convert like I am a Dirty/Crazy convert. I'm going by the prevailing belief I've heard among other fans. I don't think I personally could stomach watching the entire first two seasons to gauge how often the cars do and don't have the markers (even Daisy isn't enough to make me watch whole episodes anymore). But others on the team did do a lot of DVD watching, and also felt the cars more often were without markers than with. I'm going to try and catch a few episodes and watch them double speed to find shots of the car and see what the first 3 or 4 eps tell me. If there's time enough to fix the diecast if we're proven wrong, I'll do my best to get the markers reinstated.

[nvrbdn]

good video. i could watch that stuff all day