BOBBY ALISON'S DAYTONA

[daytonalo]

WHAT A BARGAIN , 300.000 FOR HIS RACE CAR , WHAT A DEAL ! LAST WEEK ON E-BAY COTTON OWENS CAR SOLD FOR 800.000 . WHO SAYS ALL B.J'S PRICES ARE INFLATED. EVERYBODY AGREE?

[Big Lebowski]

Some large amounts of 'Stupid money" are buying these cars. Wow.

[70charginglizard]

People just need to keep these kind of things in perspective. These race are a one of a kind historical icon items. Musium pieces.
I'm proud and happy with the fact that I own a car of the equivalent year these were out running around the track at Nascar, but I know damn well that mines not worth the kind of money these cars are bringing in.
As long as people who own these kind of cars keep this state of mind about there worth, then prices wont get so out of control that people new to the hobby will still have the oportunity to someday get envolved in the sport.

am I right?

[65post]

 I can`t believe someone payed $600 grand for a rebody. Even clones were selling for over $100. And a REAL street daytona went for just $160.Yes there were some deals.

[Silver R/T]

kidna sad too when someones out on street while some rich ass wipes his ass with washington's

[General Ryan]

OH MAN, how I wish I could've bought that car!

[Recharger]

kidna sad too when someones out on street while some rich ass wipes his ass with washington's

         GO BACK TO RUSSIA!

(You do realize Washington is on the $1, right?)



And to answer your question, Daytonalo, yes seems like a good deal, if a $300K can be called a good deal.  I got the feeling it was more of a Chebby/GM crowd than a Mopar crowd this year.

[nascarxx29]

That #22 daytona was the car Pat Mc Kinney found and he and his brother restored .Pat is the guy who had owned and supplied the Joe Dirt daytona and blue superbird in gone in 60 seconds.They did a nice restoration on that car .And preserved its racing history.

[69_500]

I think it was the deal of the show, that or the 440 Daytona that went for $160K. The only two Daytona's at the auction and both brought way less than I anticipated them selling for. I was shocked the Allison car went for $300K. I figured bidding would start around that point and quickly climb.

[694spdRT]

I think it was the deal of the show, that or the 440 Daytona that went for $160K. The only two Daytona's at the auction and both brought way less than I anticipated them selling for. I was shocked the Allison car went for $300K. I figured bidding would start around that point and quickly climb.

With the prices of other cars I figured it would go for a million or better. I heard the barn story on the car but, is there some questionable history that we are not aware of by chance? Relatively speaking I think it was the deal of the week down there.

[69_500]

Compared to the price of the Buddy Baker car it would be the deal of the year. Not just that weekend.

[Highbanked Hauler]

I wonder if the #22 car didn't have the documentation that the #6 car did. That would explain the price difference.

[69_500]

See I don't know, because the Baker car has been in the museum for years,a nd people knew about it. Where as the #22 car was known in the aero car circles but I wonder how many people knew about the car outside of those parties. I mean many people knew of the Daytona in the museum.

[Chris G.]

With the prices of other cars I figured it would go for a million or better. I heard the barn story on the car but, is there some questionable history that we are not aware of by chance? Relatively speaking I think it was the deal of the week down there.

I'm guessing there's some questionable history. I think it was in pieces when found. It's basically a brand new Daytona. Maybe Dave can confirm?

ps- There's something wrong in the world when an A12 car can stomp on a #'s matching 4spd Daytona. I won't even mention the AAR 'Cudas selling for big dough. Really weird?

[67_Dodge_Charger]

I think I found a 66 Charger in a barn that was used by so and so.  I will restore it and sell it for 6 catrillion dollarssssssss.   

The prices at BJ were higher this year.  A fully restored 440 six pack car sold for $150k+.  A non restored hemi roadrunner went for $115,000 and the buyer looked like a fellow Mopar Nut. 

I wish I had $300k.

-Robert

[69_500]

yeah I don't undersstand how a A12 car walked all over a true 440 4 speed Daytona at an auction but then again who understands what people are feeling or thinking when they are bidding on a car at an auction?

[Charger Aficionado]

  Did all of these Race Daytonas have the entire front clip made with a Steel Tube Frame?  What about the track 500s?  I've never seen pix of under the hood...

[69_500]

I'm not sure what the whole front clip was made of on the race cars. But I think that chrysler supplied the race teams with the bodies to use. I don't think they were any street cars that were used and put on a race chasis for Nascar.

[Highbanked Hauler]

  If the site is still up,       www.cottonowens.com/daytona   has about the best pictures I've seen.

[Blakcharger440]

I remember reading the article that war written about the Allison car. Alot of it didnt make since and didnt really add up about how the car came about,what was left of the original car,and if indeed the basis of the car is infact the real one.

[Mike DC]

If the rollcage/chassis ever originally wore the body & paint of the racer it's presented as, then I think it's fair to call it an "original" car.  Anything else it retains from the period is a bonus in my mind.

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I can see where the discrepancy comes from, but buyers need to understand that these are not street-car Daytonas we're talking about.  It was NASCAR in the 1960s.  Those race cars changed fenders & engines more often than a street car gets fresh motor oil.  Literally.  Several times more often. 

And it's not like "rebodying" a chassis was something that unscrupulous chop-shops did to an occasional unfortunate car, either.  Rebodying was the preferred & acceptable thing that all teams did to their chassis every 3 years.  It was a normal & expected modification during the life of a race car. 

People just need to understand what they're bidding on & hold those old NASCAR race cars to a different standard.  If they don't get the difference then the the car probably shouldn't be in their hands anyway.  Finding all original outer sheetmetal on a NASCAR is nice, but so is finding an original street car with its original motor oil.  It's unrealistic to make that the benchmark.

.

[Dodge-Charger]

I wounder what a polaroid of him with his sig. is worth. Its about 25 years old. ( not that Id sell it )

[Ghoste]

I think a lot of those cars did in fact have the tube front end.  That made changing the year as simple as changing the front clip for a new season.
As for the museum pieces, there ain't no clones that should be going for museum piece rates.  Rebodied cars either for that matter.  Rebodies are just clones with illegal vins on them really.
The Bobby Allison car just isn't as famous to many of the people there paying foolish money.  They would know the Richard Petty cars and  K&K but Allison?  Look at what someone paid for that Ray Allen car.

[69_500]

I agree, if it was say Petty's Superbird from 1970 any guesses on how high that one would have went? What if it was say Brickhouses car from 1970? which one would go for a higher amount? Petty's obviously because he is more known.
But I think that Allison is a very well known driver too, and I just don't get why his car didn't command a premium at that type of auction. Other than I didn't see to many people there that appeared to be people that were brought up on NASCAR. Looked like a bunch of people who prefer Formula 1.

[Ghoste]

You nailed it, well known in NASCAR.  I think a lot of those folks have gotten most of thier Mopar knowledge from the last few issues of Mopar Muscle, Fortune 500, and The Wall Street Journal.

[69_500]

There is however quite a Drag Racing following at those auctions. Seems that Trans AM racing is also pupular with the people at BJ too.

[Ghoste]

I was initially going to dispute the TA following but as the reply page loaded I started to think you could be right.  TA is popular in nostalgia racing on the west coast so there is likely some crossover with the same folks who attend the Monterey sports car nostalgia racing and Goodwood Festival of Speed Types.  Although they can easily afford it, most of those Bugatti, Ferrari types tend to be a little smarter with their money than what I personally feel I just witnessed at B-J.

[Mike DC]

I dunno about how inflated these prices really are.

--  Muscle cars from around 1970 are gonna be the most sought-after collector cars for the forseeable future.  By a wide margin.  1971 Hemi'Cudas are a lot more sought after than, say, a weird-ass Bugatti open wheel racer from 1956.

--  NASCAR is more popular than it's ever been before, and most of the new blood is wealthier & newer (to the old-car world) on average than ever before.  NASCAR basically has a future fan-base, whereas F1 and many other snootier forms of auto racing do not.

--  So winged Hemi Mopars are arguably the pinnacle of NASCARs & musclecar race cars, and they ain't makin' any more old NASCAR Charger Daytonas.  And realistically, we probably won't see many clones being built either. 


We might have seen more #43 & #71 type clones if there were lots of lesser-driver 1969 NASCAR Daytonas left around.  But there aren't many.  And although it's certainly possible to create a whole new clone of a 1969 NASCAR racer from a street car, it's probably too much of a leap for the collectors to ever want to pay big money for NASCAR clones that are newly-built out of old street car unibodies.

All this leads me to to wonder how much the values of NASCAR Wing cars will be climbing to.

.

[Ghoste]

Not inflated?  If the price of more common consumer goods rose by a fraction of the percentage that these cars rose in the last couple of months, the federal reserve would be going nuts to control the runaway inflation.
I can understand the pricing on a Hemi Cuda convertible with a handful made and legendary status beginning to surround it.  It's become an icon.  But a 67 GTX CLONE??  Wtf?  How does that car reach into the 6 digit pricing?  If the market pops even just a little bit, how much do you that clone is going to be worth?  It's a parts car with a cool engine and that's all it is if the market sags.  And say what you want about never building them again and no end to the market but history and logic say there has to be an end.  Someday at some point I say that clone will be worth incredibly less than it sold for a few days ago.

[Mike DC]

In that last post, I'm only speaking in regards to vintage surviving famous NASCARs. 

I think many of the bidders on regular street-car musclecars at Barrett-Jackson are smoking crack.

.

[Ghoste]

Ah yes, I can see your point now,  I should have read it a little slower and  I agree with that.  Do you think though that NASCAR's popularity is with the common folk and much less the guys who were buying cars at B-J?
Just based on where I live, I doubt that even many of the "Johnny-come lately" NASCAR fans here would know much NASCAR history beyond what year was Jeff Gordon's big win.  That's just what I notice here though.  I'll insult my homeboys further and say that I doubt many or even MOST of them even know about the wing cars.  Remember, I'm talking locally.

[69_500]

I only threw in the TA cars because it seems that the Dan Gureny car went for pretty decent amount of money a few years ago. I believe that is because most Chevy guys know stuff aobut the T/A and AAR because most Chevy guys like the Camaro and cars it competed against in racing. NOt too many old Chevy fans who followed NASCAR. Could it be because Chevy was getting spanked every weekend in Nascar? I think so.

[Mike DC]

Just based on where I live, I doubt that even many of the "Johnny-come lately" NASCAR fans here would know much NASCAR history beyond what year was Jeff Gordon's big win.  That's just what I notice here though.  I'll insult my homeboys further and say that I doubt many or even MOST of them even know about the wing cars.  Remember, I'm talking locally.

That's a good point too.  A lot of modern NASCAR fans consider "Days of Thunder" as back in the Dark Ages.

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But they still vaguely know Dale Earnhardt Sr.  (Darrel Waltrip keeps talking about him from the broadcasters' booth during the races.)
And people may not know who Buddy Baker or Cale Yarborough is, but they know that if there's lots of NASCAR-licensed merchandise of some old driver then he was probably important.  Heck, according to recent mitochondrial DNA studies, all these drivers named "Petty" probably had a single common ancestor who roamed the Amercian South during the 20th century.  

And the fans know that NASCAR race cars must have existed before the 1990s.  It's simple deductive reasoning:  NASCAR is always bragging about "technological advances" but the cars haven't changed in last couple decades at all.

.

[Ghoste]

Earnhardt   rest his soul.  A big Earnhardt fan at work used to razz me all the time about Mopars and I quipped back one day about his hero getting his start in a Charger and if it was good enough for Earnhardt etc.  He scoffed and so I brought in a picture of one of big Dale's first rides.  He still didn't like them, but he never said much about Dodge after that.

[Highbanked Hauler]

I would guess the advances they refer to are safety and you don't see many engines go up in smoke like years ago.

[Mike DC]

The cars are basically the same thing they were using 20 years ago.  They switched to the smaller chassis (110 inch wheelbase, down from 115 inches) in 1981.  Ever since then they've basically just been tweaking minor things.

Every inch of the car has gotten more precise in construction, and cheating the rules is said to be DRASTICALLY reduced because they've spent 20 years adding regulations & catching offenders.  That's about the only difference.

.

[89MOPAR]

I

  1971 Hemi'Cudas are a lot more sought after than, say, a weird-ass Bugatti open wheel racer from 1956.

Sure are !   Since there were NO Bugattis made in 1956.   Sorry, couldn't resist.

[69_500]

Oh there are still people trying to cheat, remember someone trying to cheat on how much fuel was in the tank a little while back? I still don't get how they have rules for ride heights before and after a race, but if a car fails the one after the race it doesn't really seem to matter. They don't strip their standings from a race or anything. That is what I"d do if I was in charge of Nascar. Everyone gets the same size rear spoiler, same set of rules. Now if one car goes out and domintes then I look at the other manufactuers and tell them to either step up their programs or fall behind. Instead of taking stuff away from a car that is doing well. IE the Intrepids a few years back had to give up 1 1/2" off their spoilers because they were doing well.

[Mike DC]

Oh yeah, I agree that the teams are still trying to cheat as much as ever.  Only they used to cheat for 35 horsepower all the time but now they're lucky to get 5 extra horses by the inspectors.  Anyone who has been in NASCAR for a while agrees that there's less cheating going on now than ever before.  Every year the teams cheat somewhere else, and then NASCAR finds another little loophole in the rulebook to close. 

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We like to think otherwise, but NASCAR isn't really in the business of demonstrating who has better engineering.  Not their concern now, never has been.

They just want the competition as tight as possible and they want popular drivers/teams to get wins.  Just like any other sport.  They'll manipulate anything & everything to keep it that way.  Any time a certain brand of car or a certain team has ever gotten a consistent advantage in NASCAR, the crowd's attendance/viewership has accordingly bombed until the competition was evened out again.

.