Daytona aluminum wing

[Daytona Guy]

Awesome man! I will.

[wingcars6970]

Regarding hackett brass in Michigan who made wings for the daytona back in the day .I was the one who discovered this company and its link.And provided it to Sue George president of winged warriors .She recieved and printed in the newsletter story was called maker of the wings .The guys name was Mr Fine that sent Sue the letter.I have copys of Sue and Ed Georges correspondances and the story from the newsletters

[Old Moparz]

Regarding hackett brass in Michigan who made wings for the daytona back in the day .I was the one who discovered this company and its link.And provided it to Sue George president of winged warriors .She recieved and printed in the newsletter story was called maker of the wings .The guys name was Mr Fine that sent Sue the letter.I have copys of Sue and Ed Georges correspondances and the story from the newsletters

Dave,

I remember that when you sent me the info & link last year on Moparts. I had posted that link on the old Dodge - Charger.com before it died so others could check with Hackett about casting some. The person I spoke with said they could, but would need an original wing to mold from to do it. I don't have any wings in stock, but fortunately, Daytona Guy did. 

[wingcars6970]

I found the newsletter

[jodaddy1]

Hey is this a done deal???   How soon do you need the funds to buy one???  I'd like to get one but need till Nov. for the funds to be right.  maybe end of Oct.  Let me know email if possible!!!!
Joe

[Daytona Guy]

It is all a done deal. The only one I will have left - is mine. I might let it go, but I will have to think about it. The only reason I am doing all of this is because I was making me one before the prices go up. Keep in touch.

[jodaddy1]

gladly---funds are better than I thought they would be and I should have enough by the middle of Sept.  If you caught the pics of my car you see I need a GOOD wing.  The nose will be a steel one fabed here.  The wing I'm not gona try.  I have a friend with an NOS nose so he's leting me get measurements and fab beside his so I can get it right.

[hemigeno]

I had a chance this weekend to talk with Charlie Glotzbach about Daytonas.   In 1969-70 he was the driver of the NASCAR Grand National #99 Daytona prepared by Nichels Engineering (Sponsored by Dow Chemical).   Charlie also did a LOT of aero car testing for Chrysler during the development of the Daytona - which leads to the part of the conversation I though you guys would find interesting...

Charlie said that the first versions of the Daytona did not have the wing braces in the trunk.   He said that when they did laps around the Chrysler Proving Grounds the downforce from the wing buckled the quarter panel.   They were going well in excess of 200 mph when that happened (CPG is a humongous 5 mile oval track), but it happened nonetheless.  

I specifically asked Charlie if it was the wing's downforce that buckled the quarter, or whether it was the uprights being pulled/twisted off the car.   He said it was most definitely the downforce.   He said it squished the quarter out on the sides.   Of course, he went on to explain about the trunk braces, etc.

Charlie also stated that the Daytona was "hands-down" the best racecar body he drove during his time on oval tracks.   He said it was extremely stable, especially in the banked corners.   Charlie mentioned that the front end of the Daytona produced enough downforce that he snapped more than one lower control arm.   He also had a wheel break on him too - which he attributed to the front end downforce.   While all that downforce didn't necessarily help straightaway speeds, it helped them stick like glue in the corners.

If you ever get the chance to talk with some of these "seasoned" racers, they are an absolute wealth of information.   Some wild tales of life back then on the racing circuit too...     

[dayclona]

I had a chance this weekend to talk with Charlie Glotzbach about Daytonas.   In 1969-70 he was the driver of the NASCAR Grand National #99 Daytona prepared by Nichels Engineering (Sponsored by Dow Chemical).   Charlie also did a LOT of aero car testing for Chrysler during the development of the Daytona - which leads to the part of the conversation I though you guys would find interesting...

Charlie said that the first versions of the Daytona did not have the wing braces in the trunk.   He said that when they did laps around the Chrysler Proving Grounds the downforce from the wing buckled the quarter panel.   They were going well in excess of 200 mph when that happened (CPG is a humongous 5 mile oval track), but it happened nonetheless.  

I specifically asked Charlie if it was the wing's downforce that buckled the quarter, or whether it was the uprights being pulled/twisted off the car.   He said it was most definitely the downforce.   He said it squished the quarter out on the sides.   Of course, he went on to explain about the trunk braces, etc.

Charlie also stated that the Daytona was "hands-down" the best racecar body he drove during his time on oval tracks.   He said it was extremely stable, especially in the banked corners.   Charlie mentioned that the front end of the Daytona produced enough downforce that he snapped more than one lower control arm.   He also had a wheel break on him too - which he attributed to the front end downforce.   While all that downforce didn't necessarily help straightaway speeds, it helped them stick like glue in the corners.

If you ever get the chance to talk with some of these "seasoned" racers, they are an absolute wealth of information.   Some wild tales of life back then on the racing circuit too...     

Hey Hemigeno nice post! thanks.......One question the test car wing? do you know if it was the 22" "stock" wing or the 13" "squid tube" design? it would be interesting to know!............................................On the same note, I 'll recall a conversation I had with Richard and his brother Maurice Petty about two years ago when I visited them at their home/shop ..................regarding the early wingcar race days, they said the wingcars downforce was tremendous! to the point of broken suspension parts, to blown tires, cracked rims, Maurice Petty was Richards pit crew chief/mechanic, Maurice told me the bird was tough to turn in corners because the wing uprights (verticals) forced the car to stay sraight, plus combined with the downforce ate up tires, suspension parts, brakes, etc! their solution to this problem was to remove the center section of the wing and flip it over! so now the wing "raised" the rear of the car at speed, so when aproaching a turn Richard could trottle thru the turn, letting the down force on the nose  steer the car thru while the rear lifted and help the car want to turn! quote, un quote!
                      Richard and Maurice said eventually the other teams noticed what they had done! and the other wingcar (daytona & superbird) teams followed  their lead, this took the slight edge off that they enjoyied for a few races!


                                                                 Mike/ DAYCLONA ENTERPRISES

[A383Wing]

On a side note about the wings....I don't need one. I have one of the race car wings on our Daytona. I found it up here in a little city in the mountains for $200 in '97. He said it was a birthday gift from his brother in the souith. The race wings had 8 set screws in the horizontal part at the ends. And instead of 4 studs going through the rear quarter panels to the braces, mine only has 3...they removed one of the stud supports to install the cable required by Nascar that went up one side support, through the top wing, and down the other side. This was mandatory in case the car got into a wreck so the wing pieces would not break off and possibly go into the crowd. Mine still has the cable inside...
I suppose I probably should have taken pictures of all the layers of paint on it when I was refinishing it....then I could have maybe determined which car it was from....oh well......

Just my 2 cents worth....

Bryan 

[hemigeno]

Hey Hemigeno nice post! thanks.......One question the test car wing? do you know if it was the 22" "stock" wing or the 13" "squid tube" design? it would be interesting to know!

It was the "stock" wing he was referring to.   Did the 13" wing hit the testing track, or was it just a design/model variant?   Charlie mentioned them playing around a lot with the angles of the wing, with the front chin spoiler, and a whole lot of suspension changes/adjustments.

On the same note, I 'll recall a conversation I had with Richard and his brother Maurice Petty about two years ago when I visited them at their home/shop ..................regarding the early wingcar race days, they said the wingcars downforce was tremendous! to the point of broken suspension parts, to blown tires, cracked rims,

Yep, same thing that Charlie said - exactly...   LOADS of downforce.   Perhaps in their effort to create downforce, the natural loading that occurs when a car goes into a corner was overlooked?

Maurice Petty was Richards pit crew chief/mechanic, Maurice told me the bird was tough to turn in corners because the wing uprights (verticals) forced the car to stay sraight, plus combined with the downforce ate up tires, suspension parts, brakes, etc! their solution to this problem was to remove the center section of the wing and flip it over! so now the wing "raised" the rear of the car at speed, so when aproaching a turn Richard could trottle thru the turn, letting the down force on the nose   steer the car thru while the rear lifted and help the car want to turn! quote, un quote!
                                Richard and Maurice said eventually the other teams noticed what they had done! and the other wingcar (daytona & superbird) teams followed   their lead, this took the slight edge off that they enjoyied for a few races!


                                                                                                 Mike/ DAYCLONA ENTERPRISES

Charlie didn't mention anything about anyone flipping the wing over, but he had little to do with turning wrenches on the cars.   Charlie said that he occasionally helped out if they were changing a motor out in the car, but he pretty well left the actual car setup, etc. to the team mechanics.   He gave them a lot of feedback as to how the car was performing, which is one of the reasons Ronnie Householder & George Wallace used Charlie a lot to do the prototype testing - he was good at telling them how the car was handling on the track.

As far as not being able to turn the cars, Charlie said the only track they really had a problem with too much traction was Talladega.   He said the speeds were so high there (therefore more downforce at higher speeds), and the track surface was very rough (especially a big series of bumps going into Turn #1).   With so much grip on the track due to the surface and higher banking, they did break more suspension and wheels there than any other place.   The tire wear situation was incredibly bad too.   Charlie said they would put a set of Goodyear tires on, and they would start losing chunks of rubber after about 4-5 laps.   Firestones were even worse, starting to lose chunks after 3-4 laps.   He said you could feel it when the tires started to go, so you just pulled in for new tires.   Some attributed this to the higher speeds of the Daytona & 426 Hemi, but there's a pretty good chance it was just too much downforce.   Big Bill (France) told the Chrysler guys to just go slower in the race to keep from blowing tires...   Yeah right...     

Charlie said that Daytona Speedway and other racetracks weren't nearly as bad for suspension problems.   I actually have a picture hanging on the wall in my office of Dick Brook's Superbird spinning out in the middle of Turn 1 at Daytona, so they definitely could get loose in the corners.

All 4 of the pictures of Petty's and/or Hamilton's Superbirds from 1970 do not appear as if the wing is upside down though - it looks pretty dang flat on top, or slightly curved on bottom, depending on the picture.   If they flipped it over, that curved part on top wouldn't mate up with the wing upright - it should stick out like a sore thumb to even the most casual of observers.   3 of my pictures were from Daytona (2nd race of the '70 season), but one of Hamilton's car is from Michigan (Yankee 400) - the 34th race of the '70 season.   That's not to say they didn't ever do it.

Personally, I would find it hard to believe it was a tremendous advantage to have a bunch of lift on the back end of a car.   The '66-7 NASCAR Dodge Chargers had a small lip/spoiler added on the back end.   That was an attempt (sorry as it was) to put some downforce on the back to keep the tires from spinning when you hit even a small bump.   If Richard & Maurice's guys put the wing on upside down, they almost certainly had to adjust it so that it generated little, if any, lift - maybe a reduction of downforce, but lift??     I know it's not really possible to compare those racecars to today's racecars, but the oval track cars of today are EXTREMELY sensitive to front/rear balance.   Having all front downforce, and actually having lift in the back seems like a bad (VERY LOOSE) combination, and I'm only an armchair crew chief.

Knowing how innovative the Petty's were, it wouldn't surprise me if they figured out something that Chrysler's engineers hadn't considered, whatever it was.   That must have been pretty cool to go to their shop, and meeting Maurice.     One of these days I intend to make it out to Randleman for the big soiree they have for the Pettys every year.   Super nice people, from what I've heard.

[Ghoste]

"The '66-7 NASCAR Dodge Chargers had a small lip/spoiler added on the back end.  That was an attempt (sorry as it was) to put some downforce on the back to keep the tires from spinning when you hit even a small bump."


Yeah, you look at the profile of the first gen and the fastback is shaped exactly like an airfoil.  Not a happy mistake to have made.

[Daytona Guy]

Callled foundry - they have finished all of the wings (horizontal part)   - Now they are starting on the uprights. My hope is to have them shipped by the end of this week, if not the first of next.

[hotrod98]

Sounds good.
Looks like the guys that ordered wings and braces will get them about the same time.

[BigBlockSam]

i luv it when a plan comes together 

[BigBlockSam]

if anybody is making a supebird wing i'm in. Rene

[hotrod98]

As for a superbird wing, count me in too. I made an offer on the fiberglass sb wing set on ebay but the guy said no. It looks like he pulled it before it ended. I really would like to have an aluminum set, but Dane says that due to the larger size of the sb wing that a solid core aluminum set might weigh around 100 lbs. It would take two guys to lift it into place. lol  Kind of like my 69 Camaro funny car body. It took two guys to lift it so that I could get out. I started climbing out throught the roof hatch. Man, those old funny car bodies were heavy. I don't miss that car at all.  Oops...I'm rambling.
I wonder if a machine shop could bore out a couple of large holes through the bottom of the uprights and across the core of the horizontal. Some of those machine shops can do amazing things.
Would be nice if we could find a small foundry that had the ability to build the correct type of hollow core moulds at a reasonable price. Probably won't happen though.
Oh yeah, most of the wing braces went out yesterday by UPS ground. I ran out of boxes so a couple of sets will go out Monday.
Rene, your's went out in yesterday's batch.
Dane's 2 sets and Joe's set will go out Monday.