Daytona Assy ?

[TONY]

according to factory equipment and modification bulletin it mentions (#12) to repaint around the rear glass area

but as far as the front end components, painting isnt mentioned

were the fenders, hood and nose prepainted then installed as per the instructions?

of course we know many car got painted due to the poor paint matches so painting the whole car to match was not uncommon

but if what im surmising from the factory buletin is correct, doesnt that mean some cars could have been left with the repainted area around the rear glass, and a prepainted assembled fender/hood/nose assembly installed and delievered as such?

are there any documented known as left the dealer paint cars?

[hemi68charger]

I would think that since it mentions "surfaces", as in plural, it would account for all new sheetmetal; plug, fenders, scoops, hood, valance, etc...

From all the original Daytonas I've seen, there's been some instances of overspray. Soooooooo, my conclusion is all panels were not painted prior to arrival to Creative. Now, at Creative, there could have been a stock-pile of various painted panels....

Just my thoughts..........
T

[TONY]

thanks for replying

on the original daytonas youve seen, where did they exhibit overspray?

and i know the bulletin mentions "surfaces" but the bulletin is in order of jobs, and the painting order takes price prior to the front end sheetmetal being installed

one of the things im asking is,
were the fenders, hood and noses painted prior to assembly as the bulletin doesnt mention painting  AFTER the fenders/hood/nose is on the car?

[Aero426]

were the fenders, hood and noses painted prior to assembly as the bulletin doesnt mention painting  AFTER the fenders/hood/nose is on the car?

No.   Even though the checklist doesn't call it out, I don't see them painting complete panels off the car.

This was a slam the parts on and get them out the door operation.   Since the front clip needed paint, it would be installed on the car then painted and blended (if needed) with the rest of the body, just like the window plug.

Panel painting prior to installation would not eliminate the need to blend and you have the possibility of damaging paint on the install.  

I am not clear on if they did any jambing or cut in on the back side while off the car.    Good question.  

[TONY]

Doug

im not disagreeing, as i felt the front end was painted after installation,

i was going by the bulletin that doesnt mention paint after the rear glass area

was there a update to that bulletin stating the variance oroversight of the front end paint?

[Aero426]

Sorry for the short answer.  I added to my first reply.  

We tend to read into these documents looking for answers.    Look at it if you were presented with the problem.   What is the cost effective and quick way to get the job done with the skilled labor (or lack thereof) available?      The guys working on the cars probably laughed at the check list.   

[maxwellwedge]

They were painted with lacquer at Creative.

There is a pic of one at creative with the plug installed and not painted yet. The headlights were masked and original cars have paint on the headlight rings. The engine wiring harness by the bulkhead often got overspray as well as the horns, washer bottle etc.

The k-frame, sway bar and a bunch of other stuff show a bunch of overspray as well.


Here is a pic

[TONY]

Jim

for sure many were painted and had varying degrees of overspray under the hood area,

but im wondering are there any that didnt?

and the headlights could have been installed when the nose assembly was painted, but that doesnt mean that the nose was on the car

and the car that didnt have the window plug area painted yet, may just not have gotten to that point yet, that doesnt confirm or not if the nose was changed prior to or after the rear plug area was painted

im not arguing or really disagreeing with anyone,

im just playing devils advocate and looking for more of a concrete confirmed answer instead of probablies, could ofs and most likelys

thanks again

[UFO]

There must be some of Creative Ind. employees still around that remember how things were done.
Anyone try to track some of them down?

[maxwellwedge]

Happy New Years Tony.

Plenty of original examples with paint on the nose to body seal.

Have some pics somewhere.......

[nascarxx29]

There must be some of Creative Ind. employees still around that remember how things were done.
Anyone try to track some of them down?

I have tryed to track down past wingcar factory workers but no luck.I have  found people that worked for Chrysler went to drag strips .And recorded vins to void them from warranty on repair claims.And found a guy who distributed 69 daytonas to NJ and PA zone.I gave the name and PH# to the wingcar clubs.For a person to interview..The only near factory worker connection was my find on Hacketts Brass a creative Ind sub contractor
http://wwnboa.org/motw.htm

My original unrestored daytona had overspray paint on the headlight trim rings and on the adjustment screw.They masked off the headlights but overspray got on there and other places and underhood washer bottle etc.Another detail I found on my car many not seen or heard was the headlights doors had engraved SAE XX29 into the white plastic.Dave Patik studied my cars and many others and compiled his info into a restoration manual.But random workmanship dicates why one cars in unique to another.On another note they are still worker that had a connection to the aero cars .But havent found as this guy from Dallas

[Aero426]

That is Brent and Sherri's car being talked about in that old newsletter.   What date is it?

Both Ron and Bob McDaniel were at the Cotton Owens reunion in 2006.  

[moparstuart]

That is Brent and Sherri's car being talked about in that old newsletter.   What date is it?

Both Ron and Bob McDaniel were at the Cotton Owens reunion in 2006.  

I almost had that car bought a few month before brent and sherri aquired it  . Ernie Pyle the owner of the car also told me the car was previously owned by Cotton .   

[hemigeno]

Hey Tony      How's Mike coming along on the 'Tona?  I'm sure it'll be a fantastic car and I can't wait to see it this summer.

Line Item #25 from the instruction list you posted indicates the side marker reflectors were to be installed after finish paint, and the reflector task is listed after the front clip and nose components had been installed on the car.  I'd think that's a fairly decent indication of the engineers' intent, as there is no other reason to mention finish paint if the front components were to be painted prior to installation.  More importantly, the empirical evidence supports everything being painted in place.  All the original cars I've seen had overspray on seals which were fastened to both the nosecone and fenders... some more than others of course. 

In this case it's impossible to prove a negative hypothesis (i.e. that something didn't ever happen), but it'd be a bit of a stretch for me to buy into paint-then-install.  Then again, my opinion isn't worth any more than another person's.

[Mopurr]

So if you are looking for Ron McDaniel, he didn't work at Creative......his dad worked for Chrysler and he did to, at retirement he was in was in management/offices to put it simply or as much as you need to know pertaining to this.

Yes our car, yes I have talked to Ron and Dr. Wright.....(didn't know he was a Dr.....did you....) why in the world our car comes up in this thread?

Ron discussed nothing about cars at creative......so if he drove them there?, wasn't in the shop working on them.....

And once again......Cotton DID NOT own the car, I have talked to him about it, it is one of those things that gets jumbled up through the years.

More to the story yes, and no not discussing today!

[TONY]

hi Geno

its coming along, itll be done this spring for sure,

good point in ref to item #25,
but i initially assumed that the paint it was refering to was the rear area of the car,
its hard to figure as its not specific,
and also no mention of paint past item #12,
but what your saying makes sense too

and im not saying that the painted before installation of the front end happened, just looking for concrete that it didnt

i agree that all of the original cars ive looked at have had some degree of overspray, but ive seen some with very litte, and others with gobs

Malcoms orange daytona is doesnt show much underhood overspray at all, while all of the seals underneath do.

if the fenders werent painted at all on the outside prior to installation, then the upper portion of the inner fenderwells and everything mounted on them  would have tremendous amounts of overspray on them, and malcoms car doesnt exhibit that.
the rear data tag screw doesnt have paint on it, neither does the washer bottle, the bump stop rubbers on the fender, the vacum hoses, etc

which leads me to ask, were there masks that were supposed to be used to protect underhood areas while the new front sheetmetal was being painted?

and Geno, your opinion is definately valuable to me.
thank you

[nascarxx29]

So if you are looking for Ron McDaniel, he didn't work at Creative......his dad worked for Chrysler and he did to, at retirement he was in was in management/offices to put it simply or as much as you need to know pertaining to this.

Yes our car, yes I have talked to Ron and Dr. Wright.....(didn't know he was a Dr.....did you....) why in the world our car comes up in this thread?

Ron discussed nothing about cars at creative......so if he drove them there?, wasn't in the shop working on them.....

And once again......Cotton DID NOT own the car, I have talked to him about it, it is one of those things that gets jumbled up through the years.

More to the story yes, and no not discussing today!

why in the world our car comes up in this thread????As you know I reunited the XX29L9B356510 original buildsheet to its car.I was looking into the 732 car to see if it had the sheet for it or someone elses .And looked in a old newsletter and seen the Mc Daniel wing car employee connection.Im always on the look out for Chrysler /Creative personel for the wingcar club to contact

[Mopurr]

Then why not start a new thread instead of putting it in the middle of something else?

I had an email that you were putting info up on our car and I had to hunt to find it.......because it was not in it's own thread


And yes I know you got the build sheet back because I was the connection that put the owner in contact with you.

[Aero426]

which leads me to ask, were there masks that were supposed to be used to protect underhood areas while the new front sheetmetal was being painted?

They had to have some kind of provision for masks or even blankets to cover things up.   There was some discussion offline yesterday about the Malcom car and that the bottom side of the hood has erratic paint coverage, consistent with being sprayed while on the car.      No, I don't have concrete proof, but common sense tells me this is how it was done.

The checklist indicates a plan for how the cars were to be converted.   And then there was reality with how things were actually done in the shop from worker to worker.   We see those little variations from car to car.    I see this as a lot like the battery cable thread on Moparts.    I don't think there is one right answer for every detail.   

[nascarxx29]

Then why not start a new thread instead of putting it in the middle of something else?

I had an email that you were putting info up on our car and I had to hunt to find it.......because it was not in it's own thread


And yes



I know you got the build sheet back because I was the connection that put the owner in contact with you.

Great collaberate effort on both our parts never heard if he got it actually in his hands.I knew who had since the 509 daytona changed hands twice

I still have the name and number in my files from a Chrysler zone rep who distributed 69 daytonas to NJ and PA dealers

[nascarxx29]

Then theres stuff like this Creative Industries quality control paper. That as I say random workmanship.Each car is unique and its individual details #car 149 is shown with no air foil air scoops finish needing rub out .Over spray on seals and hood and on glass etc etc

[TONY]

Dave
please lets keep this on topic, so it stays educational in ref to daytonas assy process

Doug
a friend of mine has a couple of and has restored and researched 289 and 427 cobras in depth

and from listening to him, when cars are "hand built" off of a regular assembly line there are going to be many differences and variables, and i understand when the "human hands" factor comes into play its very hard to document except for original examples due to the "game plan" not being in concrete and possibly have been modified during the production run

like i said prior, im not saying anything is incorrect that has been posted here and i appreciate all of the input, im just trying to get a better grasp of how the paint and assy was done, but it seems there are great variables per almost every car and there isnt too much that can be said that is incorrect or correct.

some cars may have had much nicer "masking" then others and i guess there is going to be some degree of underhood and seal overspray on all of the daytonas but its degree may not be consistant for any 2 cars

[nascarxx29]

Just sharing the knowledge and whatever info I have Dave Patik has been around for a while a photographed unique 69 daytona details from back in the day to present.And showed me things I missed on my own car present..He has a restoration manual and judging sheets of what details judges look for

[FJ5WING]

Dave
please lets keep this on topic, so it stays educational in ref to daytonas assy process

Doug
a friend of mine has a couple of and has restored and researched 289 and 427 cobras in depth

[TONY]

sorry,
cobras are hand built cars and the same logic of cars being built by human hands can be applied to daytonas