some questions prior the first start up... ENGINE IS RUNNING!

[Nacho-RT74]

My engine is allmost ready for the first start up. Engine was already oil primered however I never saw the oil arriving to heads ( rocker shafts ), but I could feel the drill forced when oil was being pumped. Am I fine and maybe the drill is not fast or strong enough to pump the oil up to the heads ? Note, I'm using PRW Steel rockers, not stock pieces, so maybe is harder to note on these the oil coming out from shafts.

Oil pump is Melling HP



next question. I never have adjusted rockers. I simply tightened the adjusters threated out like it was stock rockers. Dunno when or how to adjust them, specially being hidraulics tappets. How I should proceed ?

Next and last I think. Block is practically zero deck, camshaft is 479/501 lift, Open NOS 452 Heads ( 91 cc ) not milled, composite gasket, KB215 pistons. Do I have to be worried about the piston to valve clearence ? specially exhaust for obvious reasons, larger lift and piston goes up when valve is still open. I never made the clay test because somebody, local, told me I'm just fine, but wanted to be sure with you guys

[justcruisin]

The heads oil through the #4 bearing on the cam. I think one side oils when #6 is around TDC firing and the other side oils when #8 is around TDC firing.

When adjusting the lash on the lifters you will need to adjust each lifter when it is on the back of the cam, about 1/2-1 turn will be Ok. You really should set the lash before you prime the pump so that the lifter hasn't been primed with oil. Maybe have a look on line for some detailed instructions.

You should have around 70 PSI on the oil gauge with a HP pump. You don't have to rotate it fast to get pressure up - 100 RPM will do it.

Good luck with the first start.

[justcruisin]

Just had another look at your rockers. The adjusters seem to be quite high in the rocker, it looks like you are using the original push rods. If this is where the adjusters are set it might pay to have a look to see if the oil hole in the adjuster is being feed through the rocker arm. If you have decked the block you may need shorter push rods. Might be OK. Just a thought.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes decked block ( badly decked but thats another story ), but intake fit perfect so I don't think something to worry on pushrods and geometry.

Adjusters are high because to easier mounting on heads. The adjuster cup is flush with rocker on bottom, just like it was a non adjusting rocker ( stock ) to begin from there. Yes, stock pushrods.

So heads gets oil at 6 and 8 TDC ? Crank its right now at 1 TDC ( Dampener mark ) that it means 6 is at TDC too HOWEVER, which side gets the oil on each TDC ? I'm looking at just passenger side through the filling hole. Maybe 6 (1) gets driver side and 8 (5) passenger side and thats why I'm still not seeing the oil there yet ?

[heyoldguy]

Time out, time out! There are some potentially serious problems here.

#1) are the pushrods the correct length? Check for proper pushrod length first. To long of a pushrod and the valve may be open all the time. To short and the oil passages in the rocker body and the adjusting screw will not line up and there will be no oil to the rocker tip.

#2) different lifters require different  preload adjustments. Some are .000-.004", some are .030-.040", some are .062". What part number are your lifters?

#3) When priming the engine with the drill motor, have someone turn the engine over slowly with a wrench and socket on the crank/damper bolt. The rocker arm assemblies will get oil as the holes line up in #4 cam bearing. Have the valve covers installed when doing this as the oiling holes in the tops of the PRW rocker arms will shoot oil 1'-2' feet from the engine and all over the floor.

[elacruze]

Erm, Big Block Mopars don't oil through the pushrods.

Nacho, pushrod length isn't a huge concern at the level of your build.
Set lifter preload at about 1/4 turn from contact (when you can roll the pushrod but it has no slack) and if it's a little noisy you can go back and add another 1/4 turn afterwards.

Here's the diagram for top end oil, to help;



The cam journal is drilled with 2 holes. As a hole passes the pressure port, oil goes to one side of the valve train through the cam. As the cam rotates, the 2 holes line up with the pressure port and opposite side valve train (direction of oil travel reverses inside the cam since it has rotated upside down) Performance cam bearings may be grooved around the oil journal to allow full-time oiling of valve train. With roller rockers, that's not necessary or perhaps not even desirable.

This doesn't really answer your question. To confirm oil to both sides, you need to use a priming shaft and rotate the engine until you find the right spot-you'll hear air come through and then oil, although not very fast. Not hard but takes a little patience sometimes.

[BSB67]

....the PRW rocker arms will shoot oil 1'-2' feet from the engine and all over the floor.

I've seen as well.  Why do they put an oiling hole at the top of the shaft that lines up with the hole in the rocker body?  Oiling the roller and valve tip is a good thing but this seems excessive, plus it seems that most of the oil wont get to tip anyways.  Heck, some high end rockers have no tip oiling provision (splash only) and seem to live.

Curious on your thoughts.

[heyoldguy]

Erm, never said they did. Yeah, I said rocker tip but I ment rocker cup.

I said what I said about pushrod length and I ment it, it is important that the oil holes align through the rocker body to the adjuster screw, no alignment, no oil to the cup and ball contact. Sometimes, with the PRW rockers, there is a misfit and the cup won't screw all the way up into the rocker body for the initial set. You should make sure they all do so, or you may find you have some pushrods that appear too long to adjust properly. Screw all adjusters all the way into the rocker body, turn them out one turn and measure for proper pushrod length.

Also consider that some lifters are noisy at fire up if you have too much preload, and you have to back the preload off some to get the noise out.

Or.

Just forget everything I've said and do it any way you want.

[Cooter]

Or.

Just forget everything I've said and do it any way you want.

Not trying to laugh, but dang that's funny. I understand what you mean here, as I don't offer help too much anymore. 

[justcruisin]

Nacho - not sure if you get what I mean with the head oiling. I am pretty sure the oiling events for the heads are as I stated, but the cam will be in a different place when #1 is at TDC firing as opposed to #6 at TDC firing. The oiling events are with the 6 and 8 cyl at TDC, one head gets oil at 6 and one head at 8 when they are on the compression stroke but regardless do as Old Guy said and rotate the engine slowly for 720 degrees while priming and you should get oil regardless of at what point they oil.

[elacruze]

Erm, never said they did. Yeah, I said rocker tip but I ment rocker cup.

I said what I said about pushrod length and I ment it, it is important that the oil holes align through the rocker body to the adjuster screw, no alignment, no oil to the cup and ball contact. Sometimes, with the PRW rockers, there is a misfit and the cup won't screw all the way up into the rocker body for the initial set. You should make sure they all do so, or you may find you have some pushrods that appear too long to adjust properly. Screw all adjusters all the way into the rocker body, turn them out one turn and measure for proper pushrod length.

Also consider that some lifters are noisy at fire up if you have too much preload, and you have to back the preload off some to get the noise out.

Or.

Just forget everything I've said and do it any way you want.

Right, I should have figured that out myself. Yes, important to have some oil on the pushrod tips-but my experience is that even if they're not just right, they last a very very long time unless you have some high spring pressures, high RPM and most importantly dirty or poor oil. Tight lifters IME in a BB Mopar aren't noisy, but make the engine hard to start and very rough at idle if it does start. I like to start with them a bit on the loose side then chase the noise to avoid overtightening.

I'm not preaching textbook perfect, I'm trying to give some realistic advice to a guy who doesn't have a ton of cash, and has few parts & service resources anywhere nearby. 'Do it any way you want' is a way of life outside the U.S., because often it has to be.

[tubedriver]

Rotate crank 90 degrees at a time, rt and lt heads will oil separately.
2' Craftsman 1/4 extension with apex bit for pump hex, and a speed handle. Got to 80 psi with it.

[Nacho-RT74]

#1) are the pushrods the correct length?

they are stock. I compaired the rods with the rest of engine assembly because is the only stuff I have to compare. All heads parts ( ports, valley pan and bolts holes ) are perfectly and impressive aligned with manifold and block, so I'm still with stock geometry all around, that includes rods. So as starting point, I compaired PRW rockers with stock rockers and they are practically same height on everything, so as a start point I fit the adjuster flushed with rocker bottom part like it was a stock one

#2) different lifters require different  preload adjustments. Some are .000-.004", some are .030-.040", some are .062". What part number are your lifters?

They are Elgin. Can't recall the PN, but they are stock replacements

#3) When priming the engine with the drill motor, have someone turn the engine over slowly with a wrench and socket on the crank/damper bolt.

GOOD IDEA!!! never though on that!

[Nacho-RT74]

Thanks elacruze... I have the FSM and saw that

[Nacho-RT74]

....the PRW rocker arms will shoot oil 1'-2' feet from the engine and all over the floor.

I've seen as well.  Why do they put an oiling hole at the top of the shaft that lines up with the hole in the rocker body? 

This set I got doesn't have a top hole on shafts just on rockers ( as they are noticeable at the pic ). These rockers are with double bushing inside with a gap in the middle what I GUESS will be filled by oil from the bottom shaft hole and once oil gets to top hole, will drain around, I highly doubt with pressure

[Nacho-RT74]

Erm, never said they did. Yeah, I said rocker tip but I ment rocker cup.

I said what I said about pushrod length and I ment it, it is important that the oil holes align through the rocker body to the adjuster screw, no alignment, no oil to the cup and ball contact. Sometimes, with the PRW rockers, there is a misfit and the cup won't screw all the way up into the rocker body for the initial set. You should make sure they all do so, or you may find you have some pushrods that appear too long to adjust properly. Screw all adjusters all the way into the rocker body, turn them out one turn and measure for proper pushrod length.

Also consider that some lifters are noisy at fire up if you have too much preload, and you have to back the preload off some to get the noise out.

Or.

Just forget everything I've said and do it any way you want.

working on what you said! not a prob bro! They are all inside the rocker body

[Nacho-RT74]

Nacho - not sure if you get what I mean with the head oiling. I am pretty sure the oiling events for the heads are as I stated, but the cam will be in a different place when #1 is at TDC firing as opposed to #6 at TDC firing. The oiling events are with the 6 and 8 cyl at TDC, one head gets oil at 6 and one head at 8 when they are on the compression stroke but regardless do as Old Guy said and rotate the engine slowly for 720 degrees while priming and you should get oil regardless of at what point they oil.

initially I partially got it, but yes, finally I did

[Nacho-RT74]

BTW, I installed a eddy performer intake because is the MORE STOCKISH look of all the ones in the market and was to allow me to fit my AC compressor without mods ( 70s Compressor have a rear bracket what bolts into the same coil location )

WEELL IN FACT DID NEED SOME MODS!!!

first, the very front of intake doesn't allow to fit the valley pan rail compressor bracket, SO did need to make a cut there ( 1st Pic )

second... the COIL LOCATION IS HIGHER!!! ( that also mean the intake itself is a little bit higher too I guess ) so did need to cut this too.

[Nacho-RT74]

news news news

ENGINE IS RUNNING!

I simply left the adjusters like on the pic, fully threated out ( flushed with rockers on bottom ) like it was a stock piece. Started up perfect. However will check the preload/lash on the assembly on next days

Oil is arriving up to heads, leaving the rocker top hole but not by pressure like you described. As I said, the shaft only have the regular bottom hole